True... as long as there is a significant temperature rise. Use a 105C cap and a few degrees won't have any appreciable effect on the lifespan. The key to that is, of course, "few degrees" and why I stated that a knowledge of the power dispersion was critical in making a decision on whether to stuff or not. It may be different in audio circuitry but in TE the high voltage cans tend to be used in very low current rails, on the order of a few tens of milliamps and there are just not any thermal effects generated to begin with - the can size was determined by the voltage, not thermal, requirements. On a related note: you hit the nail on the head when speaking of smaller form factor capacitors. Just because modern capacitors can be much smaller than those prior does not mean that they are interchangeable (I know, preaching to the choir in regards to you but for others it needs to be said.) In a high power application, replacing that 10,000uF screw terminal can capacitor with a 10,000uF radial that is a 5th of the size is just not something that is going to last very long. Of course, going in the other direction and replacing a nice little, perfectly functional, 47uF electrolytic coupling capacitor with a film the size of a medicine bottle (with 10cm of leads free-assing off each end) is kind of dumb as well.
Now, that makes me wonder what miracles a good bourbon dielectric might produce 🤔
Cyrill baterman bade a nice work on caps https://linearaudio.net/cyril-batemans-capacitor-sound-articles
Hi nicoch58,
However, test conditions make these only valid for the same operational conditions. You can't "read across" and apply the same results to all situations. Jets have crashed due to "read across".
Distortion does matter. Does the application activate the distortion process? For coupling caps in their pass range, no. It doesn't. Unless a capacitor is defective or really bad quality, and it is sized properly, coupling capacitors DO NOT CHANGE THE SOUND. Period. However it is easy to convince folks who don't understand how things work that a certain brand and model part is better. That's a type of lie. Sadly, it is easy for our brains to convince us we hear things that are not there too. Suggestion leads to expectation bias. There you have the high end component industry in a nutshell.
In order for the capacitor to change anything, you must develop signal voltage across it. That is why coupling caps do not change sound, you never develop a signal voltage across them. This should be easy to understand.
Always remember that test situations are normally designed to show the behavior you're looking at. If the normal application doesn't put the component in this situation, the tests are invalid for that use.
However, test conditions make these only valid for the same operational conditions. You can't "read across" and apply the same results to all situations. Jets have crashed due to "read across".
Distortion does matter. Does the application activate the distortion process? For coupling caps in their pass range, no. It doesn't. Unless a capacitor is defective or really bad quality, and it is sized properly, coupling capacitors DO NOT CHANGE THE SOUND. Period. However it is easy to convince folks who don't understand how things work that a certain brand and model part is better. That's a type of lie. Sadly, it is easy for our brains to convince us we hear things that are not there too. Suggestion leads to expectation bias. There you have the high end component industry in a nutshell.
In order for the capacitor to change anything, you must develop signal voltage across it. That is why coupling caps do not change sound, you never develop a signal voltage across them. This should be easy to understand.
Always remember that test situations are normally designed to show the behavior you're looking at. If the normal application doesn't put the component in this situation, the tests are invalid for that use.
Cupling capacitors DO CHANGE THE SOUND. Period. here we all know aand test , you are the only ones sorry
Hi nicoch58,
I'm sorry you can't see the truth.
If this were at all true, missiles would hit the wrong target, we would have missed the moon and industrial manufacturing would be a mess. Never mind test equipment not ever being accurate. Can you imagine 8.5 digit meters that required hemp capacitors?
What you are suggesting doesn't stand to reason. We measure easily -135 dB below 1 watt. Most can't hear below - 80dB, -100 dB for absolute certain. So I guess you are seriously suggesting you can hear better than what can be measured??? Like, wow!
I'm sorry, but no human being is that special. There is no skill you can learn, no experience to get you past levels in the lab. that tree you're barking up? It's the wrong tree.
I'm sorry you can't see the truth.
If this were at all true, missiles would hit the wrong target, we would have missed the moon and industrial manufacturing would be a mess. Never mind test equipment not ever being accurate. Can you imagine 8.5 digit meters that required hemp capacitors?
What you are suggesting doesn't stand to reason. We measure easily -135 dB below 1 watt. Most can't hear below - 80dB, -100 dB for absolute certain. So I guess you are seriously suggesting you can hear better than what can be measured??? Like, wow!
I'm sorry, but no human being is that special. There is no skill you can learn, no experience to get you past levels in the lab. that tree you're barking up? It's the wrong tree.
In terms of size, the Slitfoil and T-Power series - go to page 51 under
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/B300/ALPALT.pdf
provide slightly better sound than normal versions in the same size but were clearly inferior to large versions with screw terminals (with the same capacity values). An even greater disadvantage was the faster aging (I have always had a bad feeling about components "specially made for audio").
...the minimum requirement is that the operating voltage is below 35VDC - otherwise "sonically by far the best" consists of a single loud bang.
For low uf/voltage applications KZ for me sounds good but must always pair with something else to balance the sound. Treble can be zinggy depending
on location used. Elan Cerafine 50v types sounds very nice too, very transparent with good treble but be warned bass becomes very lightweight.
For amps, I've tried BHC Aerovox, Split Foils, Philips can't recall type, Mlythic & Nichicon Super Through. The last 2 sounded pretty good but again depending
on amp circuit that it's being used on
@sumotan: Thanks for your feedback. Just a couple of comments 😉
I generally agree with you on the KZ capacitors although my impression is that the 22uF/100V is very linear sound-wise - only it is PCM 5 meaning that the inductance is somewhat high in a digital circuitry (IMHO).
I also agree with you on the Elna Cerafines although I have only listened to some of the 25V types.
And the Mundorfs have been positively mentioned on more occasions but their price level is just a little high in my context. However, time willl tell if I decide to try them out.
Regarding the Super Throughs it is my impression that they are also now being discontinued, isn't that correct ... ?
Well it seems that it is at least to some extent back to scratch 🤢 with regards to audio electrolytic capacitors ... Would be great if manufacturers kept their product lines going ...
"cheers",
Jesper
I generally agree with you on the KZ capacitors although my impression is that the 22uF/100V is very linear sound-wise - only it is PCM 5 meaning that the inductance is somewhat high in a digital circuitry (IMHO).
I also agree with you on the Elna Cerafines although I have only listened to some of the 25V types.
And the Mundorfs have been positively mentioned on more occasions but their price level is just a little high in my context. However, time willl tell if I decide to try them out.
Regarding the Super Throughs it is my impression that they are also now being discontinued, isn't that correct ... ?
Well it seems that it is at least to some extent back to scratch 🤢 with regards to audio electrolytic capacitors ... Would be great if manufacturers kept their product lines going ...
"cheers",
Jesper
Actually Douglas Self has made some investigation into electo coupling capacitor and capacitor used in Salen Key active filters.
His research indicates that small value (10uF) electro capacitors can give rise to distortion when a voltage appears across the capacitor in the reactance region. The should be increased to 470uF to avoid this problem. Self also outlines how the electro coupling capacitor can be put inside the negative feedback to reduce the output impedance of a buffer to virtually zero
His research indicates that small value (10uF) electro capacitors can give rise to distortion when a voltage appears across the capacitor in the reactance region. The should be increased to 470uF to avoid this problem. Self also outlines how the electro coupling capacitor can be put inside the negative feedback to reduce the output impedance of a buffer to virtually zero
@sumotan: I think Super Through is one of the quality gradings of Nichicon's KG series of capacitors - link to the datasheet here:
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdf/e-kg.pdf
And to my knowledge they have been discontinued ...
Sounds like a very feasible motto 😉 ... and in my world it also makes sense - at least in my experience it may be challenging to correct something that has already "gone astray" so to speak.
Did you BTW ever try Nichicon's Fine Gold (UFG) series? Could be an alternative as they are still available from Digikey ...
Cheers, Jesper
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdf/e-kg.pdf
And to my knowledge they have been discontinued ...
Sounds like a very feasible motto 😉 ... and in my world it also makes sense - at least in my experience it may be challenging to correct something that has already "gone astray" so to speak.
Did you BTW ever try Nichicon's Fine Gold (UFG) series? Could be an alternative as they are still available from Digikey ...
Cheers, Jesper
+1: I (on HE speakers, and my brother on LE speakers) found the same thing...
and thus spent thousands of € and years testing a lot of components on every PS rail or pin...
from one with only different cas, form factor, or vMax, etc..., till ones with the same specs (including dielectric absorption, substact, case, form factor, etc...) but different manufacturer.
And we always heard differences, and repetedly the same.
This experience allows me to know who is also very sensitive, precise, experimented, ...and speaks wright...
You (among few others) 🙂
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