Also, one of the more esoteric youtube chanels recommended trippling/quadrupling the negative hookup wire to the fullranger, compared to single of the positive, arguing it improves bass. I'm failing to see how this could be true. Has this any merit?
Yes tehy can really make a difference.
Here is a pair of FE206En heavily maxed out… almost like a different driver. Royal purple for the Queen. EnABL requires some committment i have describd the easier tweaks in a number of places, i’kll se eif i can dig up a link.
dave
Here is a pair of FE206En heavily maxed out… almost like a different driver. Royal purple for the Queen. EnABL requires some committment i have describd the easier tweaks in a number of places, i’kll se eif i can dig up a link.
dave
I suspect this is related to the kind of affects sometimes found by grounding the driver’s basket (Tannoy’s come with a special terminal for this) or Electron Ground Pools. Situation dependent.
dave
Wowza, look at that! 🙂 Yeah, please paste in any links you might find. I'll do some more diggin' through the archives myself.
Seems like buying a decent mic will be first order of bussines, than I experiment with all the suggestions.
Seems like buying a decent mic will be first order of bussines, than I experiment with all the suggestions.
3 key things to look for, puzzlekoat (modpodge), ZIG 2-way glue, and ductseal. In particular there is a post specificlly on FF165. Here the generix coverage: https://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/tweeks.html
FE20x plugs are still proprietary, i will release the plans when i sell out the few i have left.
dave
FE20x plugs are still proprietary, i will release the plans when i sell out the few i have left.
dave
Meant to, got distracted 🙂 No, you don't want to subtract the 1.5 ohms as it can't be included in the filter.
Ok the 1.5 ohms will already be causing a small variation to your response. To verify the shelf filter is working the same as a line level one would, these small differences should remain untouched before and after. I'll show that much in this post.
Firstly this is the driver against the 1.5 ohms and no crossover..
Now after adding the resistor and inductor, the 0.7dB dip in the mid hundreds of Hertz remains as wanted..
(If you want to tune that out similar to if you were using an amplifier with a near zero output impedance, we can do that in a later step..)
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Bummer! 🙁 Here it is on the web archive.
Note that a driver with a glued on dust cap can be viewed as a two way (coax) and with a whizzer a three way (triax) and all can be fine tuned physically.
No pics, write ups, just that way back when on a long gone forum I noted that kneading the whizzer between my fingers to ~literally take the starch (stiffness) out of them smooths out its midrange and if too much ('dull'/soft), then 'touching up' with cheap lacquer hairspray to add back some stiffness to 'taste' (sounds good to you).
Also found that on dust caps, a stick on star like used on little children's school papers/drawings can do wonders for this tweeter's breakup modes.
Ah yes this is it, thanks guys! I've been digging through the archives as well, I am amazed how many tweaks you've been able to come up with! I'm ordering a decent mic first than jumping into it.
But please humor me if you can. I am listing some tweaks below, most already discussed and I'm hoping you can "rate/prioritise" them, according to what you think would be the most sensible progression of tweaks to test. You can quote this and use numbers from 1-5 or something. But regardelss, this can serve as a helpful list..
Irreversible tweaks:
I really like the idea of a direct hookup (no bsc/network). But can any of the mods above really bring the 500-1500 hz range in check significantly, or are they more for finetuning/smoothness?
But please humor me if you can. I am listing some tweaks below, most already discussed and I'm hoping you can "rate/prioritise" them, according to what you think would be the most sensible progression of tweaks to test. You can quote this and use numbers from 1-5 or something. But regardelss, this can serve as a helpful list..
- simple 5-10 ohm resistor in series
- shelving filter according to allens calc
- a line level equivalent (as by Nelson)
- 0.98$ foam tweak
- phase plug
- grounding neg. terminal to driver chassis
- better hookup wires (maybe 4x thickness on the negative)
- puttying the gap between magnet and chassis
- bitumen&felt on the back of the magnet and on the driver chasis
- throwing out mineral wool stuffing from the driver chamber and replacing it with a thiner (1cm sheet of felt or better/denser material)
- lining the mouth of the horn with same
- sand filling the bottom of the driver chamber
- sand filling the bottom-back pockets
Irreversible tweaks:
- "kneading" the whizzer
- alt. hairspraying it
- dispensing with the whizzer altogether and running a supertweeter in paralel (is this even viable with fe206en??)
I really like the idea of a direct hookup (no bsc/network). But can any of the mods above really bring the 500-1500 hz range in check significantly, or are they more for finetuning/smoothness?
Not enuff bass tweaks. In a good horn with sufficient gain this should not be an issue, unless you ar eusing an ampifier with too low an output impedance.
The first more for nonhorns (raise the effective Q)
Cheap, easy and reversable. You want a “putty” that never dries.
Important, to help tame th etop and rid the driver of oil can resonances and cross whizzer reflections.
Thin, solid, cry-treated, oure copper.
Felt. Also reversabile. Inside of basket legs and the flat back of the magnet are most important.
Play with it.
At the frequencies involved (unless you have too much HF getting out the mouth) would have to be so thick it would fill the mouth.
Provides some damping and will stabalize the box.
A little bit.
Choosen in the day as it was handy there are much better materials to use.
ModPodge/puzzlekoat (a bonus is adding colour if you are not happy with whitish)
ZIg startegically applied.
And EnABL, but you need to do some practise first.
Adds some energy to the top but given the large physical spacing necessry screws up a lot too.
Going back to the start, pick a better horn. Factory FE206 horn is not as suited to rgw FE206 as the FE208 horn, but even that is “middling”. Look at Dallas II or Vulcan.
dave
You're an absolute legend, appreciate it.
To improve bass than, what is the best solution under circumstances? Keeping the amp (single Pass ACA) and these (suboptimal) horns. I have read up on Dallas II, Vulcan and Kirishina/Sachiko, but these are unfortunatelly not an option right now. I'm guessing using a minus 3-6 db shelving filter above 400 hz or so (bs loss is around 300 with 390mm baffle).
To improve bass than, what is the best solution under circumstances? Keeping the amp (single Pass ACA) and these (suboptimal) horns. I have read up on Dallas II, Vulcan and Kirishina/Sachiko, but these are unfortunatelly not an option right now. I'm guessing using a minus 3-6 db shelving filter above 400 hz or so (bs loss is around 300 with 390mm baffle).
Also found this thing, that promises to deal with lean sounding speakers and/or recordings.
https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZROCK.html
It got me thinking that since I'll be looking to replace the Mojo dac/amp with a more "normal" preamp, is there a similar thing available as a kit/shematic that one could build? Ideally with a volume knob and a few sets of se inputs.
Maybe its a bad idea, but i quite like the idea of being able to listen to "leaner" recordings on the horns.
https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZROCK.html
It got me thinking that since I'll be looking to replace the Mojo dac/amp with a more "normal" preamp, is there a similar thing available as a kit/shematic that one could build? Ideally with a volume knob and a few sets of se inputs.
Maybe its a bad idea, but i quite like the idea of being able to listen to "leaner" recordings on the horns.
Based on this measurement (scroll down), shelving down to ~ -12 dB/20 kHz centered at ~707 Hz makes for a ~flat sound power on axis response.
Otherwise, block off the terminus and vent it = ML-horn will in theory yield a bit more robust (mid) bass, lower mids.
Otherwise, block off the terminus and vent it = ML-horn will in theory yield a bit more robust (mid) bass, lower mids.
Interesting idea with the vent, thanks.
I only see the fostex' official fr measurement on that page, is that the one you mean? But surely a -12 db shelf will kill the efficiency enough to make my 8w amp cry?
I only see the fostex' official fr measurement on that page, is that the one you mean? But surely a -12 db shelf will kill the efficiency enough to make my 8w amp cry?
Another ACA and both used balanced/bridged will double the output impedance which means you go from too little to just on the bottom edge of good. The amp will sound different. Personally i prefer them that way, i think of them as sort of X monoBloks.
I think you would be really surprised at the improvement specifically with these horns.
Skinny wire wouldn’t hurt either. What are you using now? A quick thing to try is grab some solid core CAT5/6 cable and strip out a pair of speaker cabled.
Note that both this & the ACA-X are directly related to the point of inlining an R, but work better.
Except for the puzzlekoat all thedriver mods work to tame the driver’s rough edges and most of those are at higher frequencies.
To get more bottom out of them, room position will be critical, against the wall and towards the corners if you have some. You could also add wings to the horn.
Time to throw a lot of stuff at them and see what works and what doesn’t.
dave
You're welcome!
That depends on how loud you play it and/or how far away you are and/or the room's (significant) impact on the speaker's acoustics and/or the type of amp topology you have, though if SS you're pretty much limited to 10log(8) = +9 dB.
That said, sound power is exponential, so half its acoustic power requirements (0.707x) is used up by sqrt(45*20000) = ~949 Hz, but the driver's radiation impedance relative to the WLs has grown considerably, so its acoustic efficiency is rising ~exponentially, ergo it all ~balances out; can't fool Mother Nature. 😉
Also, if driven with a matching impedance, then you may only need to shelve it a little bit, so there's options and need to factor in that stereo adds ~ +3 dB, but the room is the biggie, so from experience I can say that if properly corner loaded with baffles to blend them in you'll likely be boosting the highs to tonally keep up with ~ the bottom half of the music.
Is this "feature" unique to the mojo or can most headphone amps do this? I've got a class A tube headphone amp that claims 1.5w at 32ohms. Can I hurt anything by stripping a 4pin XLR cable into two speaker wires and giving a shot? Speakers in question are MAOP 7 if that matters.
Try it. It will be <0.5w into the Fostex.
Althou the nature of the output stage may cause issues.
dave
Althou the nature of the output stage may cause issues.
dave
For those curious, I gave it a shot and as @planet10 subtly implied, it was not sufficiently loud. It did however sound very nice at the lower volumes.