Yep.. looks nice and I like that it had been optimized well - so it seems. But no independent proof/test yet.... and not sure if it likes closed boxes like the RS. Further, I would like it in 8ohm, so I can optimize it with 2 in parallel, for an 4 ohm load - best usage of max voltage swing with my amplifiers.
Here's an interesting take. Seas L22 was mentioned as being a bit more detailed than the RS225, which was described as being more smooth - because of distortion differences. Distortion might simply improve the perceived idea of detail. i think I heard about this before in music production.... almost like spices in food 
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...114-hi-vi-m8n-vs-dayton-rs225-woofer-in-3-way
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...114-hi-vi-m8n-vs-dayton-rs225-woofer-in-3-way
If someone need to understand Qtc of a woofer in a closed box:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080929114232/http://www.geocities.com/kreskovs/Box-Q.html
Clearly, EQ and power/SPL factors have not fully been taken into consideration here. But I at least, get the idea, that a Q of 0,7, can easily be quite flexible, and do not need to be extremely accurate, to accommodate good sound when EQ and subwoofers are included in the mix.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080929114232/http://www.geocities.com/kreskovs/Box-Q.html
Clearly, EQ and power/SPL factors have not fully been taken into consideration here. But I at least, get the idea, that a Q of 0,7, can easily be quite flexible, and do not need to be extremely accurate, to accommodate good sound when EQ and subwoofers are included in the mix.
It’s because the Seas driver has the stronger motor and because it has a stiffer suspension in and around resonance at the “bottom” of the pass-band.
Ok... but how is that possible, when the Seas both has double the Cms and Qms. I thought that meant a softer suspension - not a stiffer?
I'm just going by the datasheets, but I would be surprised if the value changed that much.
The Seas L22 I referred to, was the 4 layer voice coil one:
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/seas-l22rn4x-p.html
I aim to cross at 400Hz, because measurements from the KEF R900 looks good and smooth, which encourage me to believe that I do not need to fiddle much with this.
Seas Prestige looks very nicely build - Dayton almost looks like it was rushed in comparison - when looking at the magnet and basket. But I can't find one single measurement of the L22 ( lots of the L18 though )that support it's usage up to 400Hz. And I remember how suprised I was, to hear the 26W Revelator sound really messy up to 400Hz.... leaving us to go only to around 250Hz, since it simply started to distort somehow.
Again, telling me that price and performance for any specific use, does not correlate logically, at a superficial level at least.
The Seas L22 I referred to, was the 4 layer voice coil one:
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/seas-l22rn4x-p.html
I aim to cross at 400Hz, because measurements from the KEF R900 looks good and smooth, which encourage me to believe that I do not need to fiddle much with this.
Seas Prestige looks very nicely build - Dayton almost looks like it was rushed in comparison - when looking at the magnet and basket. But I can't find one single measurement of the L22 ( lots of the L18 though )that support it's usage up to 400Hz. And I remember how suprised I was, to hear the 26W Revelator sound really messy up to 400Hz.... leaving us to go only to around 250Hz, since it simply started to distort somehow.
Again, telling me that price and performance for any specific use, does not correlate logically, at a superficial level at least.
Yeah, looking at the L22's impedance from left to right, it does kind-of skyrocket. For all intents and purposes it "ought" to be usable up to 2-3kHz, before hitting physical difficulty with break-up modes, but that high impedance could be what breaks things. Current drive or a raised output impedance at the upper frequency limit could help to tame that distortion. Raising the impedance could be achieved with a 1st or 2nd order passive filter, focusing on reducing the damping factor at the problem frequencies above 200Hz or so.
I mentioned the Silver flute in post 152. I have used these in quite a few builds and they perform much better than expected, especially in the midbass. I wouldn't classify them as overly smooth. They're actually very accurate and revealing in nature and I wouldn't use them in a 2 way without notching them around 4k, even with a dedicated midrange. Definitely a deal for what they cost and capable of good dynamics with excellent power handling.
Yes, good driver, relaxed, but is not an eficient driver, even having two in box, for example hm170g8 single outperform in all ways those two SilverFlyte in my project, not comparable with hm170g8, I found those Audax an unbelievably nice 6.5" driver, easy disapears, flat like a butter up to ~2.5k... :the only cons is you need to treat membrane since Audax manufacture not exist for a long time and I realy have no idea who manufacturing it today, it didn't coat membrane and cone as like it was treated by Audax originaly long time ago.
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study at it's measurements to find the reason, should not be a huge suprise it does not do well crossed over 'high'.
I assume it was this version of it from your description.
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/scan-speak/scanspeak-26w/8861t00
Performance or intended use is a not necessarily connected with ability or suitability to cross high. That is why you study your transducers before you buy them, to minimise the risk of paying for what you don't want.
Did anybody hear about when Vom185_vki going to be available? Looks like an serious motor structure, probbly an excelelnt 8" driver.
Edit: Oh its available allready. Price is 850eur / pc , more info https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-monitoring-studio
Edit: Oh its available allready. Price is 850eur / pc , more info https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-monitoring-studio
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Luckily I did not buy it, wasn't even mine. It was over 10 years ago, and most people did passive constructions back then. Making it active as a test, we found out at that you can stretch some limits with active designs, but not really break them.
He had the speakers, I jumped directly to DSP and multiple amplifiers - and then we teamed up to try all sorts of things - like friends do, so you don't have to buy everything yourself.
I would never buy such expensive drivers, especially back then - also because I knew so little at that time - and I must still admit - my knowledge is constantly being fuel'd by my own and others experiences.
As mentioned before. With multiple subwoofers and a well combined top with midrange/tweeter arrangement. You really can play with quite a few woofers.
There are two different L22 from Seas. One "standard" and one with 4 layer voice coil. Seems like they both are equally worse than the competition - even for more money.
We get the Wavecor WF223BD02 for like 2/3 of the price here in Denmark. So within a reasonable price range, 8 ohm resistance for parallel coupling, and around the area of 50-400Hz, the following are quite close to each other - ranking from lowest to highest price:
90-105 Euro:
Fountek FW222
SS Discovery 8534G00
Dayton RS225
130-230 Euro:
Seas L22
Seas CD
Wavecor WF223BD02
Seas CA
SS Classic 21W 8555
Seas U22REX P-SL
Viston AL200
SB Satori WO24P
If there is no sonic difference below 400Hz, since this is room dominated anyway. Then I might as well chose the cheaper one like Dayton, because Discovery just want a bigger box and has no sonic benefit for my use + no one ever used the Fountek seriously, and all the expensive one's, seems to be aimed at reaching a tweeter, worried about break-up, and therefore uses a soft cone to tame it.
I think my main concern, was not to end up with a driver like the Revelator. But it was also a 10" and maybe this was also part of the reason why it could hardly play above 250Hz without serious sonic compromises.
Having played with the Dayton RS125, and experienced that the upper midrange is a bit dull, compared to better midranges. But the bass for this little driver, is quite impressive. Then the Dayton RS225 again seems like the only choice for something timeless looking, reasonably priced, and with good enough performance.
Is there a "relationship" between the weight of the cone and the ability to play well at a certain frequency? Or is it a broad balance of compromises?
Nice list! I may add the SB Acoustics SB23xxx45 to the value drivers in general. Have not used them and and they seem not to be liked by everyone, but data is good and distortion very low.
Sensitivity. When you need it for a passive desing. They're really sensitive due to the very low moving mass.
Audax exists : http://www.audax.com/
Some products here : https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/brands-page/audax.html
I use a Seas L26 and cross around 220Hz. Well away from its 4KHz breakup (no notch needed). I just us a 2nd order filter from memory with a shunt resistor to help phase alignment with the mid. So crossing the L22 at 400Hz would be ok IMHO.
The L26 is a very clean / low distortion driver. It has a generous XMech.
The L26 is a very clean / low distortion driver. It has a generous XMech.
Yup.... I have that driver. Just find the basket quite big, they want a big box and the paper/motor combo, seems to lack refinement. I mostly find metal cones to work better as pistons in the bass - but I would like to be proved otherwise - even though brands like Silver flute specifically write that they smooooothed out the driver response with compounds like wool.
I tried several midranges. And one that I liked the most, was the SB MW13TX. It was light, hard coned and detailed - smooth off-axis too. The Dayton RS125 sounded smooth enough, but simply lacked detail, coherence and general enjoyment when listening. They were crossed equally to the same tweeter and woofer - both equalized flat within +/-1dB. also the same cabinet width. So I could only assume that lightness and stiffness of the cone + quality of the motor and suspension, was the difference in perceived sound quality.
Now.... back to woofers. Maybe the design of the driver means less in the lower frequencies, compared to qualities needed for good midranges.
We-re talking 3 way designs here only. I know it's a whole different story when trying to make a 2 way speaker -especially if you do not use a waveguided tweeter.
Seas L22 is apparently strong and good.... when crossed lower than 250Hz in a 3 way. How old it that driver design anyway, 25-30 years old?
But the cut-out - damn. And what makes them good - if you can even get then. most seem out of stock.
Both models?
And another thing... how much does impedance curves and inductance really matter when directly coupled to a powerful solid state amplifier and EQ'd at line level?