The resistance of an incandescent light bulb changes as it heats up, and is not linear with voltage, resistance increasing by 10 to 15 times from "cold" to "hot".
That may work OK in a tweeter protection circuit, but makes for a poor generator diversion load.
This site has information about calculating wind turbine efficiency:
https://www.omnicalculator.com/ecology/wind-turbine
With a swept area of ~.2 square meters at 18.2km/h (10 knots) there is ~16 watts available from the wind.
20% efficiency would probably be on the high side of what you might expect from fans used as generators, one might produce ~3 watts at 10 knots.
When the boat is moving upwind, the wind resistance of the generator would be ~6 times what its power output contribution is.
By comparison, a person can put out around 100 watts, and a .2 square meter, 15% efficient solar panel up to 40 watts at solar noon.
Block a portion of the solar panel with a wind generator, and it's output drops by far more than the wind generator could produce..
This is the problem. I hope you got my lil pun with the Betz available. I don't truly understand this, so I want to explore this. I am sure a lot of smart people have already, but just like the anti-reverse ball bearing, maybe someone well versed in other area may find ways to connect the neck bone to the hip bone. Something that a windmill geek/engineer might just not think of. Just like the ARBB, I know about this item from exhaustive work with fishing reel drag systems and now with bike hub tech. When I read about the difficulties that foil type turbines have in starting up and how they can carry smaller secondary drag type helper I started thinking other ways to initiate the foils, and it came to me that the drag type can be just as wide or wider then the foil type if they are isolated from each other but able to pull on the same shaft. This keeps the shaft turning at low and high speeds
We want to see what we get at 1 turn per second on this hub motor. Its peak performance is at 11 rounds per second loaded where it draws 1500w at 48v. We are only after 20w from this
What I don't understand is the surface area part with if that is per blade or total of the blades and if it also takes leverage into account?
So 2m2 to generate 16w in 10 knots. Firstly, is it wrong to see the system as what's needed to generate 16w, rather than seeing it as a dismal net result? I mean it that is the situation, then it also is the target and specification. In that case these losses cease becoming losses and rather the 'transfer' system. I implore to view it just like using over spec components in an audio system to spec it at a lower distortion at a lower operating point
Secondly and more importantly is that 16w available another iron law? Can we lift that 16w to 20w for the 2m2 in a direct drive?
I haven't come across anyone bringing up leverage, so I want to see what happens when placing that 2m2 further out from the hub. I will have a deck area of at least 3m x 2m to cover with a roof. I am thinking about a 2m dia drag type with a foil type on top with the ARB on a common shaft and the hub motor attached via its crank chain to a cassette on that
Presuming that the 2m2 of surface area is directly coupled to the hub. Do we actually know what would happen if this was placed on the end of 1m long levers?
Been searching, reading up and watching vids for days but yet to see any systematic attempt at this targeting a low power and building the best to reliably harvest that with a prevailing wind condition
Art, for my situation, how would you find the worth of a reliable 16w at anchor the whole day or even a weekender? Considering that on the water, usable sunlight is between 9am and 1pm with flattish seas while the 10-15 knots is present most of the day and night. I wouldnt be on the water in stronger winds than that but easily pulled up on the beach
Have been thinking about this. With the Ali pipe type that I liked, I would have placed it on the end of one of the crabs claw booms which would place it away from the panels
How much of a problem would this be if the panels were in a long row fore and aft of this 2m wide vertical that I am designing? Panels distanced away from the wheel edge so that shadow during usable light period doesn't fall on them. Like wristwatch belt and face
Art, I am also considering other means of using this low kv hub such as a foot cranked one at the sound desk and so on
Then we need a better test load as the objective is to see the power produced at one round per second as well as the rpm required to produce 20w.
How about the Watersnake as the load? If that digital watt meter that I linked earlier is worthwhile, then I would place that in this rig as a means to set a variable load or drag on the hub motor as the Watersnake as a variable top speed control. A wheel sets this limit and the foot pedal works in this limit
Open throttle would be a wide load to see power and voltage at rpm rates. Limit set with 20w draw on the meter would induce a constant drag on the gen motor
What am I getting worng with this? I am sure missing something
Need help to make a custom rectifier from Jaycar parts please
I wasn't aware it is the "Betz limit" that states that no wind turbine can convert more than 59.3% of the wind's kinetic energy into mechanical energy, so the lil pun was lost.
Anyway, presently the best engineered large scale wind generators only extract ~80% of the Betz limit (47.4% of the wind's kinetic energy), small scale generators far less.
I can't add anything positive to your understanding of how to achieve useful amounts of wind generated electricity from something that can be practically employed on a small boat also using solar panels.
Best of luck with your exploration!
Art
Lots of scope for creative thinking, and nothing of any particular urgency. I will keep it highly modular, so things can be swapped in and out
How about a new coffee and sun addled idea on the table? One that might be able to do away with wind?
When presented with a difficulty, the first question that comes to mind is, "Can I turn this to an advantage?"
Been thinking about this since mentioned. I have found a way to use this now
Guys, I may be in need of some advice on how to move forward with an idea that I have. I don't know enough to do it alone, and there are guys on this forum who I know can nail this without much difficulty. I wish for this idea to be totally open in a way that is super easy for anyone to DIY
The idea makes total sense to me and addresses all the power gen issues raised so far in this thread by either making every one of those issues an advantage or irrelevant and then some. I can say this with much confidence
Is there another sadhu of tech and craft out there wanting to help render this for the better of all marine partiers? I don't know how to do the calculations on this for a deep and more productive DIY using mainly custom components. I can do this on my own using stock parts to get the desired power with only one moving part per 'cell'
Until we can find a way to render this very thoroughly DIY, I'll keep it private and for now the focus is off wind gen and the solar panels will be seen as something there working away as a bonus when conditions are right for it and otherwise regarded as secondary gen
Or so no more worrying about turbines and blades and any of that or anything sticking out or dragging and compromising. Let's start picturing this beach cat as a sleek and efficient vessel that is constantly making good amounts of power when slipped off the trailer and activated with contact on water. No extra parts sticking out in the flow for gen
The trick is in making the vessel work on itself to generate power, and this has nothing to do with the more energy out then in type of free energy exercises or pulleys and such. The harder the vessel works, the harder it will gen power. The tradeoff will be in, I am sure there is a trade-off, but I just can't think what it might be
Relevancy of this thread to this category? I will reveal more later once I know how to share this idea properly, but the tease is that the thread is totally in the right place and all the subwoofer discussions and questions that I have raised over the past year is going to culminate in the most unexpected way as power gen! And good amounts of it too, without too much fuss!!
Now with propulsion allocated to a human and electric hybrid paddle wheel
Gen all worked out in my head, for what's it worth
I can'ts see any need to change from the flat deck between the hulls and the added on central nacelle with the wheel approach
This nacelle will be on an up and down pivot from the fore x-beam and suspended from the aft x-beam with springs and linear actuators for deployment and trim. The paddle wheel will be at the back end of the nacelle
This paddle wheel will turn side to side for steering the craft Let's place that wheel in the curve of a sailfish like tail lower lobe as a control surface and fairing for the wheel
The Top half of this tail lobe would curve over and over the wheel to form a wheel arch fender type ting
Power will be transferred from human crank to the wheel with a belt drive (rice mill type) and replacing the chain. Use of the belt will remove some of the rust problems. The wheel will be built on the 1500w hub motor and be actuated by PAS from the crank cadence or electric only cruise
Four solar panels will form a long roof and have a small crabs claw type sail splayed out sideways as awning for further shade on the water/sand and exploit wind for mooring stability as well as travel. Using my background in developing working tapers for high end fishing rods to make the these sails self unloading in excessive winds
The nacelle and wheel faring will be much like a sailfish below the waterline and will also help to provide that bite for upwind sailing
Above deck and to either side of the nacelle will be the subwoofer bins and double as seats and dual width deck chairs. Flipping a lid back would reveal the foot pedal boards of the x-trainer drive between the subwoofer bins. This lid when flipped back would become a back rest for rear facing seating for any crew or guest
Half height side walls either side of the subwoofer bins. Fancy ones in teak screen. Roof will fold down. Towing height will be level with car rooftop
Fabric privacy/weather fore and aft screens
Audio desk would be in a waterproof console
Vessel throttle will be from handlebar mounted ebike systems and maybe wireless remote too if the ebike controller can be given a usable signal from an RC receiver. Steering will be via the remote and a manual backup fold out handle on the top of the paddle wheel
The build plan so remains unchanged other than the addition of the new gen and removal of the wind turbine and EVRE. Adding on the new gen will not noticeably change the appearance of the craft. I am able to actually keep it totally stealth if needed
Regarding implementing the non-solar gen. Let's test it out on a human carrying scale RC craft to see if we can generate enough power to propel the craft to a usable speed, so about 50-100w to gen via electric
Gen all worked out in my head, for what's it worth
I can'ts see any need to change from the flat deck between the hulls and the added on central nacelle with the wheel approach
This nacelle will be on an up and down pivot from the fore x-beam and suspended from the aft x-beam with springs and linear actuators for deployment and trim. The paddle wheel will be at the back end of the nacelle
This paddle wheel will turn side to side for steering the craft Let's place that wheel in the curve of a sailfish like tail lower lobe as a control surface and fairing for the wheel
The Top half of this tail lobe would curve over and over the wheel to form a wheel arch fender type ting
Power will be transferred from human crank to the wheel with a belt drive (rice mill type) and replacing the chain. Use of the belt will remove some of the rust problems. The wheel will be built on the 1500w hub motor and be actuated by PAS from the crank cadence or electric only cruise
Four solar panels will form a long roof and have a small crabs claw type sail splayed out sideways as awning for further shade on the water/sand and exploit wind for mooring stability as well as travel. Using my background in developing working tapers for high end fishing rods to make the these sails self unloading in excessive winds
The nacelle and wheel faring will be much like a sailfish below the waterline and will also help to provide that bite for upwind sailing
Above deck and to either side of the nacelle will be the subwoofer bins and double as seats and dual width deck chairs. Flipping a lid back would reveal the foot pedal boards of the x-trainer drive between the subwoofer bins. This lid when flipped back would become a back rest for rear facing seating for any crew or guest
Half height side walls either side of the subwoofer bins. Fancy ones in teak screen. Roof will fold down. Towing height will be level with car rooftop
Fabric privacy/weather fore and aft screens
Audio desk would be in a waterproof console
Vessel throttle will be from handlebar mounted ebike systems and maybe wireless remote too if the ebike controller can be given a usable signal from an RC receiver. Steering will be via the remote and a manual backup fold out handle on the top of the paddle wheel
The build plan so remains unchanged other than the addition of the new gen and removal of the wind turbine and EVRE. Adding on the new gen will not noticeably change the appearance of the craft. I am able to actually keep it totally stealth if needed
Regarding implementing the non-solar gen. Let's test it out on a human carrying scale RC craft to see if we can generate enough power to propel the craft to a usable speed, so about 50-100w to gen via electric
Today, I conducted a very small proof of concept experiment of the new idea vs a similar rated DC motor as gen. The result was as expected and positive and with the two systems generating very close results. The new concept was at a disadvantage due to missing the actuator and not being able to be fully driven
Next I need to set a more engineered version of the concept, and I have no idea where to even start calculating this. Will need input from another who is into DIY for all able to help correctly work this into general public domain
Next I need to set a more engineered version of the concept, and I have no idea where to even start calculating this. Will need input from another who is into DIY for all able to help correctly work this into general public domain
Heading out to conduct another experiment. Generator is roughly 2L in the space it takes up. I need to pickup something from Jaycar on the way for test load of 5 and 10w
We are going to need a proper test load. Not being able to think of anything else, With the radiator fan as turbine, I used a 12v globe rated 20w and managed to generate a tiny 2.8v and 0.21A. Not sure if I did this correctly. Also, the load didn't do much to slow down the rotation with induced motor drag
Thinking about using an identical second unit as whatever generator under test as load. So direct motor to motor if testing a motor based system. Hoping that would make for a better load and also help calculate efficiency
Re the wind turbine
I have another idea for a micro turbine. Will make a custom axial BLDC about 40cm dia as the test unit in a vertical drag type setup to see what that can put out
Re the new concept
Work in progress but seems to work so far and another test later today with this one coming up and a 'spinoff' idea to that as well
This makes for three ideas to try for non-solar gen targeting that 96dB bass levels on board the beach cat without draining the battery. I think I have found a way to place it into public domain by just publishing the idea here in this thread
If I have a positive result after the next experiment today, then let's see if we can make something out of it
Thinking about using an identical second unit as whatever generator under test as load. So direct motor to motor if testing a motor based system. Hoping that would make for a better load and also help calculate efficiency
Re the wind turbine
I have another idea for a micro turbine. Will make a custom axial BLDC about 40cm dia as the test unit in a vertical drag type setup to see what that can put out
Re the new concept
Work in progress but seems to work so far and another test later today with this one coming up and a 'spinoff' idea to that as well
This makes for three ideas to try for non-solar gen targeting that 96dB bass levels on board the beach cat without draining the battery. I think I have found a way to place it into public domain by just publishing the idea here in this thread
If I have a positive result after the next experiment today, then let's see if we can make something out of it
I found it very difficult to set up another experiment due to stock components not being suitable. Needs more trial and error and learning to create a custom one, but this is still the best bet to sum an array of cells to gen a usable amount of power. The best I can manage at the moment is only 2v per cell in light conditions and almost another volt higher when driven some more, but I couldn't set that up well. This needs a proper setup and I might be able to figure it out
The other non-solar idea that I can reveal now is via wave gen at anchor. Anchoring in our prevailing conditions means the bows of the vessel are fairly unusable and all the fishing and such is done at the back. This is due to vertical accelerations at the bow end with enough power to lift up adults standing there quite fast
So how about a powerful ebike hub motor of around 5kw 72v coupled to a very large dia pulley of around 1m dia via a belt. The hub motor would wear a small pulley instead of the usual cassette. The larger pulley would have three grooves. One for the belt to the small pulley. One for a length of Spectra rope and the other for a very strong elastic rope. As the vessel heaves up, the rope would play out and turn the hub motor via the pulleys at a rate towards its top rating of around 11 rounds per second but for almost one full round of the larger pulley. As the bows come down, the elastic rope would recoil it. The length of rope play available would be the circumference of the large pulley. A clip at the end of the rope to attach it to a loop made in the anchor rope after setting that. This gen can be fitted inside the central nacelle and the rope output via roller guides and a dual roller tip
This can also be looked at as collecting gen from a super low speed diesel generator with engine off and the Hulk pulling on the starter rope every time it retracts
There will be a very low frequency ripple or pulse in the output voltage. I don't know yet how bad a thing this is and wondering if a bank of car audio capacitors between a MPPT controller and the battery can smooth that out if needed
I think this can seriously out do solar arrays in a marine environment on a moored small vessel or pontoon at a fraction of the cost and space and work around the clock. The only moving parts that would need replacing would be the bearings, belt and ropes, but even they will have a very long service life and only cost dollars to replace and are small enough to be carried as spares
The ebike motor for the paddle wheel is showing as delayed delivery. I think Australians might know about the issue with Fastway/Arramax and eBay deliveries recently. I will test the concept using that when it arrives and it it works, build that into the bridge deck using a more powerful motor. This is also why I have been holding up the build
This was idea two, and a spin-off from my main idea of a number of small cells summed to gen power
Idea one is also solid and has a chance of working at anchor or underway making small amounts of usable power consistently and maybe more if I can 'trialeneer' it well. Will reveal more on this on once I can nail at least a solid 5w per cell for around $50 build cost per cell
Now I will bring up the "Seasaw" concept to power the thrust and loud bass by harvesting dynamically from the environment while trying not to kill it. Maybe it is a stupid concept, or maybe awesome. I don't know yet. But if it can work, then maybe lithium and such as well as combustible fuel for marine use can be dialled back. I haven't looked to see if this has already been done to avoid running into 'iron laws' and discouragement
The idea goes so, taking that very large pulley gen. Let's now run Spectra in on both rope grooves and fit it to a seesaw under the brigedeck. The ends of the seesaw would have gym ball type devices of around 100-200kg displacement fitted under and Trimble immersion. Now every wave that passes under the deck will rock this gen back and forth with the power of the floats against the displacement of the vessel and constantly gen. Will be fun to see if it can actually be used to move the vessel
Also, will be satisfying to see others try to make it work, and all the power to anyone who can make a coin from making it work. An open and general public sharing of my Seasaw concept that seemed glaringly obvious based on my limited understanding of the thingys in wind, hydro, wave and ebike regen
On to the beach cat build. That pivoting nacelle mentioned earlier, further details now. Ok, so the Seasaw is mounted under this and the rider rides this on the x-trainer and times his cadence at a multiple or fraction of the wave speed. A pivoting front yoke on the x-trainer would be coupled to the seasaw via Spectra roller guides. This helps share some of that energy that induces a yaw rock on an x-trainer that would have made the vessel want to dog walk into a push on the regen instead. Converting waste into power
The forward ball would form a bulbous bow for the nacelle, and this is a real thing. Not sure about the aft ball. With systems to trail fairly well sorted. I can now create the bridge deck with the hardponts to fit such projects. We will start with a basic multi speed foot crank fitted to a forward hardpoint and run a chain to the stock cassette on the eHub paddle wheel and trail and error a very well working x-trainer once on the water. Then, as more funds become available, will make and fit a powerful Seasaw via trial and error again for enough power to drive 4x marine subs to WOT as a floating stage and maybe even add to the thrust
Collaboration is very welcome to create a truly open source seasaw thing. My first idea is about making custom subwoofers, but nothing else on it for now other than use that if able to any reader
The other non-solar idea that I can reveal now is via wave gen at anchor. Anchoring in our prevailing conditions means the bows of the vessel are fairly unusable and all the fishing and such is done at the back. This is due to vertical accelerations at the bow end with enough power to lift up adults standing there quite fast
So how about a powerful ebike hub motor of around 5kw 72v coupled to a very large dia pulley of around 1m dia via a belt. The hub motor would wear a small pulley instead of the usual cassette. The larger pulley would have three grooves. One for the belt to the small pulley. One for a length of Spectra rope and the other for a very strong elastic rope. As the vessel heaves up, the rope would play out and turn the hub motor via the pulleys at a rate towards its top rating of around 11 rounds per second but for almost one full round of the larger pulley. As the bows come down, the elastic rope would recoil it. The length of rope play available would be the circumference of the large pulley. A clip at the end of the rope to attach it to a loop made in the anchor rope after setting that. This gen can be fitted inside the central nacelle and the rope output via roller guides and a dual roller tip
This can also be looked at as collecting gen from a super low speed diesel generator with engine off and the Hulk pulling on the starter rope every time it retracts
There will be a very low frequency ripple or pulse in the output voltage. I don't know yet how bad a thing this is and wondering if a bank of car audio capacitors between a MPPT controller and the battery can smooth that out if needed
I think this can seriously out do solar arrays in a marine environment on a moored small vessel or pontoon at a fraction of the cost and space and work around the clock. The only moving parts that would need replacing would be the bearings, belt and ropes, but even they will have a very long service life and only cost dollars to replace and are small enough to be carried as spares
The ebike motor for the paddle wheel is showing as delayed delivery. I think Australians might know about the issue with Fastway/Arramax and eBay deliveries recently. I will test the concept using that when it arrives and it it works, build that into the bridge deck using a more powerful motor. This is also why I have been holding up the build
This was idea two, and a spin-off from my main idea of a number of small cells summed to gen power
Idea one is also solid and has a chance of working at anchor or underway making small amounts of usable power consistently and maybe more if I can 'trialeneer' it well. Will reveal more on this on once I can nail at least a solid 5w per cell for around $50 build cost per cell
Now I will bring up the "Seasaw" concept to power the thrust and loud bass by harvesting dynamically from the environment while trying not to kill it. Maybe it is a stupid concept, or maybe awesome. I don't know yet. But if it can work, then maybe lithium and such as well as combustible fuel for marine use can be dialled back. I haven't looked to see if this has already been done to avoid running into 'iron laws' and discouragement
The idea goes so, taking that very large pulley gen. Let's now run Spectra in on both rope grooves and fit it to a seesaw under the brigedeck. The ends of the seesaw would have gym ball type devices of around 100-200kg displacement fitted under and Trimble immersion. Now every wave that passes under the deck will rock this gen back and forth with the power of the floats against the displacement of the vessel and constantly gen. Will be fun to see if it can actually be used to move the vessel
Also, will be satisfying to see others try to make it work, and all the power to anyone who can make a coin from making it work. An open and general public sharing of my Seasaw concept that seemed glaringly obvious based on my limited understanding of the thingys in wind, hydro, wave and ebike regen
On to the beach cat build. That pivoting nacelle mentioned earlier, further details now. Ok, so the Seasaw is mounted under this and the rider rides this on the x-trainer and times his cadence at a multiple or fraction of the wave speed. A pivoting front yoke on the x-trainer would be coupled to the seasaw via Spectra roller guides. This helps share some of that energy that induces a yaw rock on an x-trainer that would have made the vessel want to dog walk into a push on the regen instead. Converting waste into power
The forward ball would form a bulbous bow for the nacelle, and this is a real thing. Not sure about the aft ball. With systems to trail fairly well sorted. I can now create the bridge deck with the hardponts to fit such projects. We will start with a basic multi speed foot crank fitted to a forward hardpoint and run a chain to the stock cassette on the eHub paddle wheel and trail and error a very well working x-trainer once on the water. Then, as more funds become available, will make and fit a powerful Seasaw via trial and error again for enough power to drive 4x marine subs to WOT as a floating stage and maybe even add to the thrust
Collaboration is very welcome to create a truly open source seasaw thing. My first idea is about making custom subwoofers, but nothing else on it for now other than use that if able to any reader
A refinement to the above that just came to me. If instead of the elliptical type of x-trainer, how abut an air walker type? Removes the majority of moving parts if this is part of the seasaw movement directly. Forming a human/wave hybrid gen. Move the large pulley based system inside a ball and fit another one inside the other one too. A semicircle skeg between the two forming the x-trainer, seasaw, nacelle and keel in one unit
In light conditions, rider can assist the waves to exercise and in heavy can ride the seasaw and resist to the level of exercise needed. Human power is decoupled as mech transfer and coupled as electric transmission via balancing into charge or dump depending on battery resistance at varying charge levels
An airwalker type x-trainer only needs two struts and a pair of bearings and a cross pin. A lot less daunting than trying to reverse engineer an elliptical into aluminium. The strut ends would be rope attached to the seasaw bar
Sounds so simple, three aluminium bars depressing a pair of ball floats into the water surface or being rocked by a passing wave. Spring recoil gen inside each ball float, working a rope to the deck
A momentary short at the end of each stroke would brake the eHub motor for its return spin
But
How about an ARBB on each side of a fixed shaft on the larger pulley? A dual groove small pulley riding the ARBBs. One groove for elastic rope recoil and one for drive rope to seasaw now the gen bit can be fitted to the deck and actual inflatable balls used for floats and both sides of the stroke keeps turning the gen in only one direction
It will be like dual rider type bikes where one can rest or go slower than the other. Doing this with cantilevers takes a lot of space, but ropes should be easy enough either with rock or spin type final movement
In light conditions, rider can assist the waves to exercise and in heavy can ride the seasaw and resist to the level of exercise needed. Human power is decoupled as mech transfer and coupled as electric transmission via balancing into charge or dump depending on battery resistance at varying charge levels
An airwalker type x-trainer only needs two struts and a pair of bearings and a cross pin. A lot less daunting than trying to reverse engineer an elliptical into aluminium. The strut ends would be rope attached to the seasaw bar
Sounds so simple, three aluminium bars depressing a pair of ball floats into the water surface or being rocked by a passing wave. Spring recoil gen inside each ball float, working a rope to the deck
A momentary short at the end of each stroke would brake the eHub motor for its return spin
But
How about an ARBB on each side of a fixed shaft on the larger pulley? A dual groove small pulley riding the ARBBs. One groove for elastic rope recoil and one for drive rope to seasaw now the gen bit can be fitted to the deck and actual inflatable balls used for floats and both sides of the stroke keeps turning the gen in only one direction
It will be like dual rider type bikes where one can rest or go slower than the other. Doing this with cantilevers takes a lot of space, but ropes should be easy enough either with rock or spin type final movement
Spin type with ARBBs is looking better and better by the moment. I can solve the recoil without the elastic spring by running a rope from each stroke to both sides but one side opposed wrap so that just enough force from each stroke is shared to recoil the other side
Having the ball mount movable along the seasaw bar will make it easier to maintain rpm with conditions, maybe a sail track type thing under the bar to a sail winch?
Having the ball mount movable along the seasaw bar will make it easier to maintain rpm with conditions, maybe a sail track type thing under the bar to a sail winch?
By being able to adjust to wave period, the rearward ball will instead of depressing further into the water and increasing resistance will instead follow the back side of the wave and also be pushed down by the other side as well as sucked down with the water, making a lot of use of the wave
The default immersion, together with the appendages like the nacelle and paddle wheel fairing, will create additional buoyancy to help with the extra gear
I am putting this much ponderings into my first idea as well but the learning curve is steep
The default immersion, together with the appendages like the nacelle and paddle wheel fairing, will create additional buoyancy to help with the extra gear
I am putting this much ponderings into my first idea as well but the learning curve is steep
I came to a further realisation while planning the x-beams in that if I use the existing ones, they can support a seasaw mech built into the nacelle pivot instead of a second pivot
Firstly I realised that attaching the bottoms of the airwalker struts to the bike crank with aluminium bars turns it into an elliptical anyway so I don't need to reverse engineer anything 🙂 This is a massive plus for the project and easy and direct transfer of human power to thrust
The central nacelle is meant to pivot in a scissor action against the main hulls, with the pivot being at the fore x-beam and the rear x-beam setting the limit for vertical movement. The existing x-beams are arch types and would allow a 1m or so of movement. I can use another bar from this to one side of that crank so that every passing wave lifts the back of the nacelle and turns the crank too, so directly mechanically coupling wave energy to the paddle wheel
As conditions get brisk, there will be an excess of wave energy, and this where the design of the nacelle buttocks can help surf off this excess. That would be the shape of the fairing curve that the wheel sits behind. The dual cat hulls would channel waves into the seasaw
This means a retracted wheel at mooring or sail for wave/human hybrid gen. Wheel can be put down in decent current, adding to direct turning torque
The BOM is shrinking, and I feel an elegance and efficiency now appearing in the design
Only one eHub enabled wheel doing both thrust and gen duties, mechanically driven by human/wave hybrid power and electrically driven via PAS or cruise (PAS is pedal speed detection used to drive an elect rial motor as throttle and the level of electrical can be set from 0-100%)
Really a bike frame on a paddle board going up and down with the waves in the middle of the hulls. I'll create a foil across the back of the board with a retractable paddle in its centre. The shape of this foil will create lift at the buttocks, sliding the craft forward on a wave with excess energy
A two-way pivot on the nacelle to fore beam will decouple the x-trainer induced yaw from the vessel and direct it into energy for leaning the wheel into turns and well is in the mechanical transmission plus some heat at the pivot to be managed by bearings. Marine axle bearings will do nicely for the pivot
Limits of all the movements can be set with sprung dampeners in conjunction with water density to absorb and shove back. Maybe air shocks will work or some sort of kangaroo leg springs
A new analogy is seen as riding a longtail drive
I will need to learn how to create moving parts in CAD to model any of this
Together with the above work, I also need to learn how to DIY a marine rated subwoofer with a 1m xmax
Firstly I realised that attaching the bottoms of the airwalker struts to the bike crank with aluminium bars turns it into an elliptical anyway so I don't need to reverse engineer anything 🙂 This is a massive plus for the project and easy and direct transfer of human power to thrust
The central nacelle is meant to pivot in a scissor action against the main hulls, with the pivot being at the fore x-beam and the rear x-beam setting the limit for vertical movement. The existing x-beams are arch types and would allow a 1m or so of movement. I can use another bar from this to one side of that crank so that every passing wave lifts the back of the nacelle and turns the crank too, so directly mechanically coupling wave energy to the paddle wheel
As conditions get brisk, there will be an excess of wave energy, and this where the design of the nacelle buttocks can help surf off this excess. That would be the shape of the fairing curve that the wheel sits behind. The dual cat hulls would channel waves into the seasaw
This means a retracted wheel at mooring or sail for wave/human hybrid gen. Wheel can be put down in decent current, adding to direct turning torque
The BOM is shrinking, and I feel an elegance and efficiency now appearing in the design
Only one eHub enabled wheel doing both thrust and gen duties, mechanically driven by human/wave hybrid power and electrically driven via PAS or cruise (PAS is pedal speed detection used to drive an elect rial motor as throttle and the level of electrical can be set from 0-100%)
Really a bike frame on a paddle board going up and down with the waves in the middle of the hulls. I'll create a foil across the back of the board with a retractable paddle in its centre. The shape of this foil will create lift at the buttocks, sliding the craft forward on a wave with excess energy
A two-way pivot on the nacelle to fore beam will decouple the x-trainer induced yaw from the vessel and direct it into energy for leaning the wheel into turns and well is in the mechanical transmission plus some heat at the pivot to be managed by bearings. Marine axle bearings will do nicely for the pivot
Limits of all the movements can be set with sprung dampeners in conjunction with water density to absorb and shove back. Maybe air shocks will work or some sort of kangaroo leg springs
A new analogy is seen as riding a longtail drive
I will need to learn how to create moving parts in CAD to model any of this
Together with the above work, I also need to learn how to DIY a marine rated subwoofer with a 1m xmax
While pondering my collection of small watercraft and rec devices, I managed to remove even more items off the BOM, including things like the ball floats and middle hull and all that, so now I am able to draw up a coherent component list. I believe the concept has now evolved from a seasaw drive to a seassor drive. This is the build and powertrain plan. I can't see anything to change but would really appreciate anyone following to chime in with any recommendations and collaborations
Develop a build plan from this list and test out systems by modifying the Phoenix gokart build
Starting with the base vessel, which was manufactured with rental fleets in mind:
1 pair beach cat hulls in HDPE
Stock arch type x-beams in aluminium, with a tramp floor to be replaced with ply with teak look EVA marine flooring material
DIY rudders
DIY biplane short sailing rig
DIY skeg
Electric powertrain:
4x solar panels
12v 100AH LiFePO4 battery
Solar MPPT charge controller
DC-DC 12 to 48v converter to drive motor controller and audio amp modules
Ebike controller with regen
A rectified 48v to 14.6v down converter from ebike controller power terminals back to the LiFePO4 battery
1500w 48v gearless ehub
Ebike hand controls and LCD display
Bunch of watt meters
Mechanical drivetrain is the wave/electric hybrid power drive that I am calling Seassor drive for my implementation. In this build, the drive will also use human hybrid via an elliptical drive:
Ehub based 300kg displacement pneumatic wheel with fin blades with initial waterline displacement immersion to offset some payload from the drivetrain
Alloy mounting rear fork with linear actuator for blade bite setting
Seassor arm alloy beam
Seassor cantilever (to crank)
Bike crank
Bike cassette type multi speed chain drive on wheel via the crank
Footboards with alloy cantilevers (to crank)
Hand struts (to footboards and crank via bearings)
Bite skeg with dual whale wave foils
PA system:
2x dual chip TPA3255 modules
Marine Polk Audio dual 12" subs
Main speakers are undecided
Android touch screen marine head unit
Waterproof housing for laptop and audio interface
Touchscreen based virtual mixers
Waterproof mics and bass guitar
Display screen
Disco LED's and floodlights
Infrabass
DIY subwoofer with 1m xmax
Phoenix gokart to Wavekart
This is a smaller paddle board with quad pneumatic wheels providing righting moment. I will change this to remove the forward axle and place the forward wheels on long cantilevers from the rear of the craft to actuate a crank connected to the bladed rear wheels via a chain. i found an electric scooter at the reuse centre, and we can use the DC motor and controller from that too as well as my 12v 10AH to prove the concept
Let's use the alloy bike frame to provide the crank and pedal that as well as connected to the long cantilevers. The handle bars can be used with push-pull cables to control a rudder. I have the cables on hand too
Wavekart audio system
In the downtime, let's give the racer sub drive a run on the DATSv3 and design a TL boombox for it with a phone holder
Develop a build plan from this list and test out systems by modifying the Phoenix gokart build
Starting with the base vessel, which was manufactured with rental fleets in mind:
1 pair beach cat hulls in HDPE
Stock arch type x-beams in aluminium, with a tramp floor to be replaced with ply with teak look EVA marine flooring material
DIY rudders
DIY biplane short sailing rig
DIY skeg
Electric powertrain:
4x solar panels
12v 100AH LiFePO4 battery
Solar MPPT charge controller
DC-DC 12 to 48v converter to drive motor controller and audio amp modules
Ebike controller with regen
A rectified 48v to 14.6v down converter from ebike controller power terminals back to the LiFePO4 battery
1500w 48v gearless ehub
Ebike hand controls and LCD display
Bunch of watt meters
Mechanical drivetrain is the wave/electric hybrid power drive that I am calling Seassor drive for my implementation. In this build, the drive will also use human hybrid via an elliptical drive:
Ehub based 300kg displacement pneumatic wheel with fin blades with initial waterline displacement immersion to offset some payload from the drivetrain
Alloy mounting rear fork with linear actuator for blade bite setting
Seassor arm alloy beam
Seassor cantilever (to crank)
Bike crank
Bike cassette type multi speed chain drive on wheel via the crank
Footboards with alloy cantilevers (to crank)
Hand struts (to footboards and crank via bearings)
Bite skeg with dual whale wave foils
PA system:
2x dual chip TPA3255 modules
Marine Polk Audio dual 12" subs
Main speakers are undecided
Android touch screen marine head unit
Waterproof housing for laptop and audio interface
Touchscreen based virtual mixers
Waterproof mics and bass guitar
Display screen
Disco LED's and floodlights
Infrabass
DIY subwoofer with 1m xmax
Phoenix gokart to Wavekart
This is a smaller paddle board with quad pneumatic wheels providing righting moment. I will change this to remove the forward axle and place the forward wheels on long cantilevers from the rear of the craft to actuate a crank connected to the bladed rear wheels via a chain. i found an electric scooter at the reuse centre, and we can use the DC motor and controller from that too as well as my 12v 10AH to prove the concept
Let's use the alloy bike frame to provide the crank and pedal that as well as connected to the long cantilevers. The handle bars can be used with push-pull cables to control a rudder. I have the cables on hand too
Wavekart audio system
In the downtime, let's give the racer sub drive a run on the DATSv3 and design a TL boombox for it with a phone holder
Phoenix wave kart
I had another idea to add to this. If the forward lifter wheels were grooved and the underside of the long seassor arm also grooved and in a long and slight S shape, then the wave that pushes the wheel up would transfer in the cantilevers action to the rear and accelerated pump like on the downward pedal stroke. This lets the whole of the forward firing seassor arm work. On the other hand, a rear firing seassor arm might do better with a whale wave foil instead
Secondary hulls provide added displacement and stability but at a cost of drag which I think wastes wave energy as maybe heat or something. By allowing the wave to lift the float, via seassor, we might be able to make use of that wasted energy by redirecting it into thrust and power
5 such crafts on super cheap hourly hire will let me chill in the beach cat 'office' for hopeful bread, butter and tobacco money
Bop
The Bird of Paradise or Bop for short is the pre chosen name for the largest in the planned fleet, the 6m cat using a pair of HDPE hulls displacing 1500kg each at the initial waterline trim
The planned powertrain for this is the Smartwave 3500 wearing the 30hp outboard tractoring as the central nacelle. There is a potential to dock the Smartwave via seassor to harvest from some massive forces there. Maybe enough to power substantial electric thrust
I am happy for the general seassor idea to be in the public domain and specifics from my end limited to this thread and any other attempts by other members
DIY Infrabass driver
Does 1m of xmax mean 1m magnet depth? Neodymium ring arrays stacked? Dia of coil wire for 1m xmax power? @weltersys @hurrication @Crashpc?
I had another idea to add to this. If the forward lifter wheels were grooved and the underside of the long seassor arm also grooved and in a long and slight S shape, then the wave that pushes the wheel up would transfer in the cantilevers action to the rear and accelerated pump like on the downward pedal stroke. This lets the whole of the forward firing seassor arm work. On the other hand, a rear firing seassor arm might do better with a whale wave foil instead
Secondary hulls provide added displacement and stability but at a cost of drag which I think wastes wave energy as maybe heat or something. By allowing the wave to lift the float, via seassor, we might be able to make use of that wasted energy by redirecting it into thrust and power
5 such crafts on super cheap hourly hire will let me chill in the beach cat 'office' for hopeful bread, butter and tobacco money
Bop
The Bird of Paradise or Bop for short is the pre chosen name for the largest in the planned fleet, the 6m cat using a pair of HDPE hulls displacing 1500kg each at the initial waterline trim
The planned powertrain for this is the Smartwave 3500 wearing the 30hp outboard tractoring as the central nacelle. There is a potential to dock the Smartwave via seassor to harvest from some massive forces there. Maybe enough to power substantial electric thrust
I am happy for the general seassor idea to be in the public domain and specifics from my end limited to this thread and any other attempts by other members
DIY Infrabass driver
Does 1m of xmax mean 1m magnet depth? Neodymium ring arrays stacked? Dia of coil wire for 1m xmax power? @weltersys @hurrication @Crashpc?
A pic of the beach cat rigged up. See those arched x-beams? They will be useful for clearance for the seassor drive. The mast area is strong and suitable to mount the pivot end of the seassor drive
See those two forward x-beams. These can have the deck chair tops and side floor steps. The pair of subs can go under these deck chairs and no floor there. The seassor drive can be in the centre of this and covered up to join the two deck chairs into one
The wheel can sit under and behind that rearmost taller arch which can be part of its wheel arch and trim mech. This can also mount things like the rod holders and such. There can be a floor step in this area to either side of the wheel and forward of the wheel. I might just make these floor steps with alloy planks dressed in teak look EVA instead of ply
The stock mast and boom can be cut down to become part of the superstructure. A pair of alloy uprights from the rear x-beam with an x-beam over the top connecting the boom in the middle. The solar array on a composite skin roof along the boom. A pair of small crabs claws splayed out outrigger style as awnings and pendulum glider types wing sails. Independent 3-way change of angle of attack between the solar array and the wing pair
Side privacy screens that can lift as awnings or rolled up. Undecided on this. Roll up fore and rear screens. The craft's weight bias is mostly to the rear, so the front is not very usable. A tramp suspended in water here might be fun and will save on fouling the drive as a drive filter of sorts
Again, the roof can be folded forward down onto this fore deck of sorts, and the wings brought in for trailer
The whole thing can also be dry docked in a fore deck cradle on the Bop forming its controls and such and adding to its own seassor drive powered by the bulk of the Smartwave if we can prove the tech, and I'll state again that any concepts introduced in this thread are public domain and to be used any which way
So to anyone still reading this, do I have a reasonable and coherent general arrangement and independent inventions to harvest dynamically in a cool daily ride work vehicle? Even if wave power fails for forward thrust, the seassor drive will still allow thrust and regen via electric/human/sail hybrid safely and with minimum negative impact on the environment
Or can educate and knowing types see any flaws that I am blind to and can help me save some time and effort as well as expense
The wave piercing nature of the main hulls encourage the use of a second forward firing gen only seassor drive. Due to how the seassor wheel float will want to ride up and the bow to plunge forward. The weight over the rear seassor will help that, while the larger vertical accelerations will help the forward seassor. The forward seassor float will look cool in an inflatable manta type shape rather than a wheel, but a wheel here would make it a true water ebike type thing
This is very different from using a fan powered by a turbine to blow on the turbine type thing. There is a braking force here that is being wasted as drag, heat and energy to launch spray, and a suction force here that is also being wasted as drag. Then consider that the main hulls will span some waves wheel the wheel float will run in peaks and dips and gravity will also assist the suction while the wheel spans the dip. Displacement will lift it with the waves against the level running hulls
There is no such thing as free energy or more output than input, and I am only an uneducated taxi driver. What are the tradeoffs in my plan?
This is very different from using a fan powered by a turbine to blow on the turbine type thing. There is a braking force here that is being wasted as drag, heat and energy to launch spray, and a suction force here that is also being wasted as drag. Then consider that the main hulls will span some waves wheel the wheel float will run in peaks and dips and gravity will also assist the suction while the wheel spans the dip. Displacement will lift it with the waves against the level running hulls
There is no such thing as free energy or more output than input, and I am only an uneducated taxi driver. What are the tradeoffs in my plan?
Motor depth, not necessarily magnet depth. Though 1m Xmax is very unproductive, borderline completely disfunctional. In audio production, getting past 2" P-P has significant shortcomings and issues, and past 4" it is not to be used for wide band sound reproduction. Also doppler and other issues will cause it to have great distortion baked in the design no matter how well made it is. There are pieces that can go that far, but it is not even desired.
Sorry I didn't read the rest.