Based on sonics... which do you prefer ?

[PMA]

So given that I know already that the ground loop is going to have a significant impact, how can I attribute any differences I hear to between the ATRACK and the recording issues?

It's a bit pointless, frankly.

Try this file and tell me what you hear, without further speculations.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbsetjaw0s0ur7s/sigtest.wav

 

[heb1001]

heb1001, based on listening, what do you hear from this file? Hear, without FFT.
Comments of others appreciated as well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbsetjaw0s0ur7s/sigtest.wav

I listened to the initial period of silence at the limit of my normal listening volume.

Track Y has noise that sounds whiteish. As if it has been dithered.

Track Z has an unpleasant warble. Sounds like a ground loop.

After that, I didn't bother to listen to the music.

If you want me to listen and comment on the difference in sound from ATRACK compression then run ATRACK in software on a few 192kHz linn recordings.

 

[PMA]

No, I am curious about your groundloop comments.
Try this file linked below, for me to consider you serious.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbsetjaw0s0ur7s/sigtest.wav

 

[Mooly]

heb1001, based on listening, what do you hear from this file? Hear, without FFT.
Comments of others appreciated as well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbsetjaw0s0ur7s/sigtest.wav

I hear "something" when I go from pause to play (like mute and unmute) but its essentially nothing. Like the audible noise from a CFL lamp electronics. Its at a level that's 0.001 above audibility. Artifact of the laptop and audio stages maybe.

 

[heb1001]

Try this file and tell me what you hear, without further speculations.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbsetjaw0s0ur7s/sigtest.wav

I listened once through. Sounds like a quiet test tone. If you want more detail, I could listen again.

 

[BYRTT]

Internet brings us in thread together doing our interest with heart and soul is nice.
I could be very curious if physical distance did not prevent that we all did same test in same room and same system setup, what result then be.
Why?
Take PC as playing device which most use, there i can mention 30-50 small tweaks/differences from hardware to software that change audio quality, and therefor i think peoples result are different.

Beneath posts are also my thinking, thanks to all regards Ricky.

Mooly, definitely, and thank you for the tests you have prepared.
To me there is a FACT that some listeners do prefer degraded files. I am still convinced that it indicates to weak point in their hardware. Anywhere, from SW and soundcards to headphones and speakers.

And frankly, I do not like tubes. Have not heard tubes transparent enough yet.

This is why I said its a valid result for you 🙂 Because its how you determine what you like. The whole point of all these tests is to decide by listening, not looking for noise/artifacts or whatever with software.

You go to buy a new CD player or speakers or an amplifier... you listen... its how you make your choice.

 

[PMA]

I listened once through. Sounds like a quiet test tone. If you want more detail, I could listen again.

I would be glad if you could kindly listen once again.

 

[heb1001]

I would be glad if you could kindly listen once again.

I've now looked at the spectrum so there is no point. It's a 1kHz test tone at -100dB.

I just tried myself on a -120db test tone and couldn't hear it but then looked at the spectrum and found that the file contained nothing.

I'll try again generating a lower one.

 

[PMA]

And you probably know why I was asking you. Our debate on -125dB/50Hz spectral line, a groundloop product in my setup.

Now, my test was only -100dB/1kHz, no masking music, no masking noise, and 1kHz is much more audible for human ear than 50Hz.

Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SY]

Now, my test was only -100dB/1kHz, no masking music, no masking noise, and 1kHz is much more audible for human ear than 50Hz.

I'll bet you're still well below threshold. Bill Waslo's Sousa band test is still the benchmark.

 

[PMA]

I know that test. But this one was single tone in isolation, without masking effect of the music. And previous arguing in another thread was about -125dB/50Hz (within music) 😀

-100dB/1kHz should be audible from speakers if one puts volume up. It is a 24dB file, no noise there.
In my setup, I end up somewhere between -110dB and -120dB with SACD (Philips DSD test disc) for a single tone, preamp + amp + speakers.

 

[heb1001]

And you probably know why I was asking you. Our debate on -125dB/50Hz spectral line, a groundloop product in my setup.

Now, my test was only -100dB/1kHz, no masking music, no masking noise, and 1kHz is much more audible for human ear than 50Hz.

Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

50Hz is not the problem with the ground loop. The problem is that a ground loop introduces wideband noise. The low frequency stuff is inaudible but the higher frequencies ruin the sound of the music. Your 150 and 250Hz peaks were the tell tale signal that you had introduced wideband noise with harmonic content just below.

My amp had 50Hz mains hum at -90dB or so. It's not a problem. The harmonics decay relatively quickly. It would be better if they were not there but again they are not a big problem. The amp is normally clean above 1kHz.

If I introduce a ground loop, the 50Hz component might change by 5 or 10dB perhaps but the main impact is the noise floor across the whole spectrum including the frequencies between 1kHz and 20kHz rises significantly. It's the high frequencies that wreck the sound. The low frequencies are inaudible.

 

[SY]

And previous arguing in another thread was about -125dB/50Hz (within music)

There are some ideas too stupid to be worth arguing about.

 

[PMA]

Right you are.

 

[heb1001]

The limit of what I can hear at 1kHz on my system is somewhere between -105dB and -110dB.

The minidisc player loopback may not be a ground loop. It might just be the sound of the minidisk electronics.

If you look at the sensitivity curve, there are places where harmonic interference could have a disproportionately large effect. For example: 2kHz interference on a 10kHz signal would be 20dB worse than expected.

 

[Jay]

Geez now I understand why some of you have such a temptation to reveal deaf golden pinnaes. When heb1001, frank and I were requested to download the test tone I didn't realize the intention. But when I was accused deaf for not able to hear such a loud 1khz tone I knew what was going on...

Don't worry folks I'm not going anywhere hehe. I didn't join recent tests because I have no access to the files. You still have many chances to humiliate me 😀

 

[Jay]

Anyone care to post a -110dB test tone? I want to know my limit more than anyone else I believe. I have no computer here at home. Only android and iPod.

 

[PMA]

50Hz is not the problem with the ground loop. The problem is that a ground loop introduces wideband noise.

It is perfectly measurable and can be easily quantified.

 

[PMA]

Anyone care to post a -110dB test tone? I want to know my limit more than anyone else I believe. I have no computer here at home. Only android and iPod.

I did post a -100dB tone. Can you hear it?

OK, here is the -110dB test tone.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v6el9m5r1i0ejy/sigtest110.wav

It has some -160dB artifacts and only about -175dB spectral noise density bottom, maybe you or another golden ear will hear it.

 

[heb1001]

I just tried a 10kHz test tone at -60dB with 2kHz interference at -100dB. You can't even hear the 10kHz test tone over the interference let alone say whether it sounds clear or not.

So if your minidisk player is introducing -100dB noise at 2kHz it has effectively wiped out all the HF content below -60dB and significantly impacted the quality of much more than that.

The silence spectrum of Z shows noise introduced at 3kHz and -100dB see picture.

So, as I said, fairly pointless to consider this a valid test of the ATRACK compression standard.

Hmm, moderators calling me an idiot. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?