I expected much from this Mooly's blind test idea. But the cheating issue spoils everything. So... Why all of you really lack the spirit to learn and understand new things? Because you already think you know everything??
Maybe my use of the expression "harmonic interference" is also making my posts unclear. I don't mean harmonic distortion, I mean interference/noise which is actually a signal rather than random noise.
Finally heard the difference.
I find it very interesting that I could not distinguish any files yesterday. I tried againthis morning, with the same results.
I disconnected the SE tube amp and hooked up my old SS amp (Philips FR-951) and had no problem distinguishing A/B and Opal/Ruby.
I then hooked the SE amp up again, and could still distinguish between them without difficulty.
Learning what to listen for?
I can't hear the -60dB tone, but I have the indoor air handler for the heat pump only 10' away from where my stereo is set up, so I expect it does a lot of masking.
The ambient noise level right now is around 50dB, comprised of the fan on the computer I'm using and the air handler.
Not an ideal listening environmnet for sure.
I find it very interesting that I could not distinguish any files yesterday. I tried againthis morning, with the same results.
I disconnected the SE tube amp and hooked up my old SS amp (Philips FR-951) and had no problem distinguishing A/B and Opal/Ruby.
I then hooked the SE amp up again, and could still distinguish between them without difficulty.
Learning what to listen for?
I can't hear the -60dB tone, but I have the indoor air handler for the heat pump only 10' away from where my stereo is set up, so I expect it does a lot of masking.
The ambient noise level right now is around 50dB, comprised of the fan on the computer I'm using and the air handler.
Not an ideal listening environmnet for sure.
No, I mean if there is no worry about cheating, we could have had a lot of experiments to observe and learn. When I asked a third file to prove that I can really hear huge difference between 2 files, somebody mentioned that I can easily do the phase reversal thing, so I backed off. When I wanted to know how low is audible, I got replies that I didn't understand the meaning of. If only there is no cheating issue, people can send me 2 files where the second one has 20khz tone say 4db peak and see if I can differentiate or not (will a foobar abx work here?).
If, I say if I can hear what you cannot then there must be a lot of things you can learn from the result. I'm no expert in electronic, but I build my own amps, and I don't think I have heard better speaker than mine in the same topology of course. This is subjective but what makes that possible is my ears, not my electronic skills. I have criteria in measurements where others don't because they dont know the relationship between the figures with what is perceivable.
And even now most of you I believe busy with thinking about boosting ego and so on. What a lack of learning spirit, that's what I said.
Interesting comment regarding your tube amp and it seemingly masking the differences in the files on a first listen. The SS amp showed differences and having heard them you could then pick them out without difficulty on the tube amp.
Is that a fair assessment 🙂 Next question 😀 which amp do you prefer to listen to given a choice ?
I think that may be a fair assessment.
I prefer the tube amp (biased because I built it?).
Although I've not listened to a lot of music lately. I've mostly used the tube amp to drive speakers to use when watching TV. I find I can understand conversation better with it than the SS amp.
I just loaded my recording back up files to the computer yesterday so I expect to listen to a lot more music now.
I prefer the tube amp (biased because I built it?).
Although I've not listened to a lot of music lately. I've mostly used the tube amp to drive speakers to use when watching TV. I find I can understand conversation better with it than the SS amp.
I just loaded my recording back up files to the computer yesterday so I expect to listen to a lot more music now.
Most seem to turn to software to decide whether they like or dislike something. That is my observation.
😀 Yes they are referenced below 0db "digital level". So for a CD player with an output of 2 vrms at 0db, the -20db file only produces a signal of 200mv, the -40db file produces 0.20mv and the -60db produces 2mv. Being music the average levels will be well below that.
I suspected it was noise from my laptop I heard in Pavels "sigtest" as I remarked there was "something" there. I would have to try "silence" to compare. In fact I think I have that as a test track on a Philips CD. Must look it out sometime.
I haven't done SA on anything but the -110 tone, before or after listening. My "problem" is that I live in the real world of noises I can't escape. Even though I live in a rural area, trucks go by, people mow their lawns, the refrigerator runs, the wind blows and on and on. My lair is below ground but I still doubt the ambient levels gets much below 30-40 dBA most of the time. Even with a clean shave, if I shift my head I can hear hair and whiskers against the ear pads. Now, let's say to preserve my hearing, or at least what's left of it at this age, I keep my peak levels around 90 dB, hopefully corresponding to near the maximum digital levels, if the recording was well done. -100 dB of anything puts it below the threshold of hearing for a teenager, and certainly below my threshold of hearing. And that's for the peak of the F-M curves; higher and lower frequencies will be even harder to hear.
Now, there's no question if you listen with peaks in the 120 dB range, you can detect the noise floor more easily. Still, what's the dynamic range of an LP? I don't know the answer, but experience says the pops, clicks and surface noise aren't anywhere near -100 dB for my listening levels.
Anyway, my point with all this blather is that stuff down at the threshold of hearing isn't what's wrong when the music is wrong. It doesn't contribute to "night and day" differences. There are other larger issues at work.
Now, there's no question if you listen with peaks in the 120 dB range, you can detect the noise floor more easily. Still, what's the dynamic range of an LP? I don't know the answer, but experience says the pops, clicks and surface noise aren't anywhere near -100 dB for my listening levels.
Anyway, my point with all this blather is that stuff down at the threshold of hearing isn't what's wrong when the music is wrong. It doesn't contribute to "night and day" differences. There are other larger issues at work.
Good answer! Many think that preferring hi-fi is the "smarter" decision. They forget that as long as we aren't near perfection, we are free to choose or prioritize any options. And choosing the enjoyable criteria is wiser IMO.
Later when we are chasing for perfection then we try a lot of things to get a lot of good things.
OK, that's an interesting comment, and I'm sure its more than just you being biased.
I found that many of the amps I owned and bought and built all had one problem to some degree or another... listener fatigue. Sure, some recordings sounded exceptional but they were the minority. I wanted those few recordings to still sound great, but so to the lesser stuff, and the digital radio at 160kbs etc etc and that's where most amps fail for me.
And I bet that is where your amp scores highly... that its great to listen to with 95% of what you throw at it.
Now after listening your comments about noisy environment, full volume etc, I started to think that this is a clue. I didn't turn the volume up, a big fan is one meter next to me, but I jumped hearing the loud tone. I thought PMA was evil concluding that I couldn't hear such a loud tone, even if I didn't expect a tone file. But it seems that many people are really deaf??
What's interesting is now that I've read the following posts is that I did in fact pick up a couple of times a very low level tone which came and went, it was real will o' the wisp stuff. I thought it was most likely another artifact of the playback circuit, so didn't mention it. So, most likely it was the recorded signal but the 'primitive' DAC was at the limit of resolving it, depending upon its mood at any one moment ...
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