Bargain woofer, midbass, cone mid thread

[ChrisABC]

more Dynaudio-

https://web.archive.org/web/20070704082757/http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/auto/mobile/md330d.php

kits at the bottom
https://web.archive.org/web/20130626084956/https://www.gattiweb.com/dynaudio.html

 

[profiguy]

@ChrisABC Too bad these drivers are NLA. Dynaudio stopped selling to the DIY home market in the early 2000s.

 

[ChrisABC]

old site-
MFK Projects- MCM Drivers- high qts-open baffle

http://www.mfk-projects.com/my_projects/Projects 2015/MCM woofers.html


10" MCM 55-2972 $11.38 usd
from MFK ,"Distortion data for a 1 watt and 5 watt inputs... (1 watt from 10 Hz to 3 KHz and 5 watts from 20 Hz to 1 KHz) Also, impedance and frequency response. Frequency response was measured with the drivers in open air, no baffle."

https://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-2972/10-woofer-with-poly-conerubber/dp/80R7011?st=10


MFK graph, QTS 1.62, Vas ?

MCM manufacturer graph
QTS .4516, Vas 82.27 litres

The specs are different MFK vs MCM manufacturer.
-------------------------
from PartsExpress
SEAS A26 Tweeter substitution and Revised Crossover
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...26-tweeter-substitution-and-revised-crossover

Seas A26RE4 (H1411)​

https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-a26re4-h1411

====================================================================

I've been looking at 10" woofers for a Devore Orangutan, Seas A26 alternative.
Could the 55-2972 be used? With a high qts (MFK measured @ 3.5 times(!!!) the published spec). Any suggestions for a box?
Open baffle or open back box only possibilities?
Anyone use the 55-2972 woofers?
https://eminence.com/pages/support__understanding-loudspeaker-data

https://vinylsound.ca/products/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o-96-speakers
$21,756.00 CAD (they even include stands, how generous)

 

[ostripper]

I just recycled my (DS-215-8) 8" woofer of 15 years !!!
PE still sells it.... and it's still made in Taiwan.

I now know how to properly mate it with a soft dome (learned how to build crossovers- yahhh!!).
This guy , actually has a valid design for it - https://www.mtg-designs.com/diy-speaker-plans
Lots of other PE speaker designs/variants with well thought-out crossovers.

Add a zoble ( 10R + 22uF) and it mates well with any 2-3Khz dome (or horn).
The light paper cone plus the monster motor can do very good mids.

I have abused these drivers with Badger/Wolverine AB amps , never fried them.
AND they sound real good (for cheap).

Actually , I wish I could build a 3-way system with these drivers but have no tools to do so.
But , then I would choose the RS-225-8 .... looks way cool with more Xmax.
OS

 

[perrymarshall]

8" GRS 8SW-4, 8" Poly Cone Subwoofer- 4 ohm (Graph doesn't look like a subwoofer)
Sale price $13.99 usd Parts Express
08-18-2022, 09:47 AM
DrewsBrews
Attached are in-box measurement of the woofer. One is distortion the other is gated. As I said, I wouldn't be afraid to use it all the way to 1K. It might even do well as an old school 2-way using the top end roll off as the crossover.
Sorry for potato quality pictures but its all I have (I think).







--
MTG Designs
https://www.mtg-designs.com/diy-speaker-plans/flex-8
https://www.mtg-designs.com/diy-speaker-plans/flex-8/flex-8-grs

"I am glad I tested all the woofers I had as it resulted in one making the cut that I didn't even consider initially, the GRS 8SW-4. The 8SW-4 has smooth frequency response up past 2 kHz which was totally unexpected since it is labeled as a subwoofer. Funny how it's actually better suited for 2-way designs and has a smoother frequency response then any of GRS's other 8" woofers."

=========
GRS 8SW, 8" Subwoofer PE Projects page-

https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/basic-subwoofer/

I used the GRS 8SW-4 as a bass-mid in a 2 way with excellent results:

Post in thread 'Replacing Standard Low Pass Xovers with Notch & Shelf Filters'

2024-08-11 6:57 pm

Here’s a new example of using a notch filter instead of a low pass. This system uses a GRS 8SW-4 woofer, which for the price it’s a steal, especially considering not only is it an affordable 8” woofer with 6mm Xmax, it also has sufficiently smooth midrange response out to 3.5K, that in a pinch, you could use it with no crossover components at all.

This is the woofer’s response in a 21 liter sealed box with no crossover:

I’m crossing it to an Audax TW0034X0 which is an updated version of the classic HD13D34H from the late 1970s. 34mm dome mid-tweeter. This is the response...

• perrymarshall

• 

 

[perrymarshall]

The Dayton ND25FW-4 1" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide is a bargain, sounds very good for the money, and matches the directivity pattern of a 4-6” woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-ND25FW-4-1-Soft-Dome-Neodymium-Tweeter-with-Wa-275-051

 

[perrymarshall]

Also the HiVi M8N-1B 8" Aluminum/Magnesium Cone Woofer is really 8.75” in diameter. Frame and hole size are identical to the Morel 9” woofers; only the screw hole mounting pattern is different. Much less expensive. Good quality.

https://www.parts-express.com/HiVi-M8N-1B-8-Damped-Aluminum-Magnesium-Cone-Woofer-297-490

​

 

[AdamThorne]

The Dayton ND25FW-4 1" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide is a bargain

Do you have any opinion about how the Dayton compares to the Peerless / Tymph that looks very similar? I've got a couple of the Peerless in my it-was-on-sale-so-I-bought-it box but I haven't used them yet.

https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-BC25SC06-04-1-Textile-Dome-Tweeter-264-1028?quantity=1

 

[Audio>X]

8" GRS 8SW-4, 8" Poly Cone Subwoofer- 4 ohm (Graph doesn't look like a subwoofer)
Sale price $13.99 usd Parts Express
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-8SW-4-8-Poly-Cone-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-292-480?quantity=1

-
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1489532-le-petite-sarcophage-r2

from post #10

08-17-2022, 05:45 AM

It's no Revelator, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it to the 1K I used here. Pair it with something like the Beast Mode tweeter in a 6 or 8 inch waveguide and it would make a cool, cheap large 2-way.
from post # 12

08-18-2022, 09:47 AM
DrewsBrews
Attached are in-box measurement of the woofer. One is distortion the other is gated. As I said, I wouldn't be afraid to use it all the way to 1K. It might even do well as an old school 2-way using the top end roll off as the crossover.
Sorry for potato quality pictures but its all I have (I think).







--
MTG Designs
https://www.mtg-designs.com/diy-speaker-plans/flex-8
https://www.mtg-designs.com/diy-speaker-plans/flex-8/flex-8-grs

"I am glad I tested all the woofers I had as it resulted in one making the cut that I didn't even consider initially, the GRS 8SW-4. The 8SW-4 has smooth frequency response up past 2 kHz which was totally unexpected since it is labeled as a subwoofer. Funny how it's actually better suited for 2-way designs and has a smoother frequency response then any of GRS's other 8" woofers."

=========
GRS 8SW, 8" Subwoofer PE Projects page-

https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/basic-subwoofer/

1.8 cuft (@51 litres) box 5/8" 26"x16.5x9.5 Sealed
(+ Tweeter + (add for ear height) Stands 9" + 26 (35"x16.5x9.5 sealed)
or build a empty bottom section, like this-
https://www.seas.no/index.php?optio...s-aphel-kit&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=345
Mini Devore or bigger O/baby Wide Baffle/ wide body speaker look.
==============================================================
8" MCM 55-2960 $19.33 usd Newark
https://www.newark.com/multicomp-pro/55-2960/woofer-8-die-cast-professional/dp/13T7692

from Mike Chua
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/04/27/mcm-55-2960/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/05/26/mcm-55-2960-fountek-fe85/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/05/30/mcm-55-2960-pyle-pds442/

looks like a built in BBC dip
Ported Box = 25 liters. Baffle Width = 13.5″

No crossover is used. Audition with woofer in RAW state.
Mid-Bass (80Hz-125Hz) – Dynamic. Detail. Tight. No Bloom.
Low Bass (40Hz) – Audible. No Bloom.
Vocals (125Hz upwards) – Sounds Flat. No audible peaks.
Bass and Vocals Balance – Good. Bass doesn’t over-power voices.

Despite the widely different Thiele & Small Parameters, the MCM 55-2960 sounds perfectly fine.
Suitable for PA and even HiFi. Fantastic value for $15.21.

Updated on Dec 8, 2023"
--
from Midwest Audio Club - MAC
https://diy.midwestaudio.club/discussion/comment/46720#Comment_46720

hifiside
November 2023
Multicomp 8” 55-2960

It would seem that there are some CHEAP drivers that advertise/claim to be subwoofers when they are not actually so.
My opinion is that the Fs & QTS of this driver means that it is NOT a subwoofer > The price however is SUPER DOOPER LOW !!!

 

[ChrisABC]

Thank You 🙂 Perry Marshall, for your measurements of the GRS 8SW-4 Subwoofer.
I was stuck looking at the specs where it says,"useable frequency range 40-800 hz" & "Subwoofer"

Perry Marshall, "it also has sufficiently smooth midrange response out to 3.5K, that in a pinch, you could use it with no crossover components at all."

I was wondering what's correct (if anything)? The freq response graph looks correct (Manufacturer, PE Board -Drew & Perry Marshall)
-----
3500 hz crossover possibility small tweeter Dayton ND20FB
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/basic-subwoofer/
This is a sealed enclosure, 26″W x 16 1/2″H x 9 1/2″D
The enclosure is made from 5/8″ particle board.

Similar to 2022 price $5,600 usd without stands. $1000 usd stands
Devore O/Baby HWD 35"x 14.75" x 9.75" (including 12" tall $1000 usd wood stands)

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o-baby-speakers-review/

A possible O/Baby alternative- not a clone, no Seas woofer, not $6,600 usd.
Cheaper than $1,000 usd Devore stands. Nice plywood baffles.

 

[perrymarshall]

Do you have any opinion about how the Dayton compares to the Peerless / Tymph that looks very similar? I've got a couple of the Peerless in my it-was-on-sale-so-I-bought-it box but I haven't used them yet.

https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-BC25SC06-04-1-Textile-Dome-Tweeter-264-1028?quantity=1

Very different, I've used them both. The Peerless / Tymph has a much smaller, more sharply flared waveguide and is omni-directional @ 2K and only directional above 5K. The Dayton has a broader waveguide which begins to become directional above 2K and is pattern is much closer to "constant directivity". I have posted a lot of threads about Constant Directivity dipole designs here. Based on that I prefer the Dayton.

 

[perrymarshall]

Thank You 🙂 Perry Marshall, for your measurements of the GRS 8SW-4 Subwoofer.
I was stuck looking at the specs where it says,"useable frequency range 40-800 hz" & "Subwoofer"

Perry Marshall, "it also has sufficiently smooth midrange response out to 3.5K, that in a pinch, you could use it with no crossover components at all."

I was wondering what's correct (if anything)? The freq response graph looks correct (Manufacturer, PE Board -Drew & Perry Marshall)

Don't believe the marketing description, believe the measurements.

Yes you can use it as a cheap sub, it has a good Xmax, and I've used it that way before, but it's also a perfectly competent bass mid.

 

[AdamThorne]

Very different, I've used them both.

ah, great. I could tell the Dayton was larger from the spec sheet, but wasn't sure about the directivity. Thx for the feedback.

 

[ChrisABC]

Another GRS "Subwoofer", that doesn't look like a Subwoofer. PE $21 usd
GRS 10SW-4 Subwoofer 34-800 hz
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-10SW-4-10-Poly-Cone-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-292-482?quantity=1

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/GRS Spec Sheets/292-482--grs-10sw-4-spec-sheet.pdf

Would those two peaks @ 1800 to 2500 be objectionable?
Could this work for a minimal, no crossover woofer like Devore / Seas A26?

vs
Seas A26
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...s-prestige-a26re4-h1411-10-paper-cone-woofer/
Madisound $224 usd

https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-a26re4-h1411

 

[GM]

Hmm, assuming you want a high XO point and/or low order XO, then 34400/pi/5.1 = ~2147 Hz VC dia., so a $0.98 tweak to cover over the dustcap's glue joint should damp the ~1800 Hz and adding some acoustical damping to the dustcap should quell the ~2500 Hz or personally would just cover the whole area as required or suspend a damping disc in front of the driver.

 

[ChrisABC]

Would Blu tack work?

(1) Roll out small balls of Blu Tack, flatten apply to cone- bunch of small dots.
(2) Flatten Blu Tack to a thin sheet, apply to the cone-might fall off?
(3) Strips of electrical tape applied to the dustcap.
etc

personally would just cover the whole area as required or suspend a damping disc in front of the driver.

Or Glue a felt disk on the dustcap @ 4 3/4" per PE Q&A,

Interesting. GRS 10sw-4 $21 usd PE + $_ tweak.
Less than Seas A26re $224

Would it be possible to get (?)_% of the sound for 10% of the price.

 

[GM]

Can't recall ever using Blu Tak nor heard of it before joining the long gone Basslist and it's been used a lot tweaking (not so) cheap drivers here on DIYA re damping mechanical vibrations (chassis, motor, horns, XO components, etc.), but don't recall it being used on driver cones.

Yeah, PE's tweak works, though surprised it doesn't cover its glue joint that normally 'highlights' DC breakup modes and FWIW my fave is using a suitably sized star shape sticker.

Can't comment about modern consumer drivers, but me, Dave p10 and numerous others have converted many a 'dirt' cheap driver into true HIFI performers IF (big IF) it has a basically good motor design and used within its design limitations; i.e. 'you can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear' such as you can put a Ferrari body on a VW 'Beatle' chassis, but it sure won't perform like one.

 

[Rogster]

While perusing the madisound site I bumped into their Black Friday sale. @perrymarshall had mentioned that the Satori TW29 Beryllium tweeter were outstanding but they are still pretty expensive at the $329 each sale price. So I consoled myself with $35 SB26ADC tweeters instead (which are still a bargain at their regular price). I have a WG to try on them. The Dayton ND25FW tweeters were too cheap to pass up on sale for @ $8.50 each, so I grabbed a couple of those at PE. I expect we won't be seeing these prices come next year with talk of tariffs but fingers crossed. The SB20PFCR30-8 are a great deal too at $35 but not sure about the 5db drop at 900Hz.

 

[keantoken]

Blu Tak turns hard and exudes a hard glue like substance after long enough.

 

[ChrisABC]

Maybe the GRS 10SW-4 Subwoofer is useable with a small coil or just ignore the 1800-2500 hz peaks.

Another 10" woofer- Eminence Legend B102 .
https://eminence.com/products/legend_b102#frequency-response

p.24 Eminence Legend B102 running Fullrange
Klang + Ton 2010-02 pdf
https://kupdf.net/download/klangton-2010-02pdf_599bd0d4dc0d60f97953a200_pdf