I have heard the DE250 and really like the way they sound but I have no experience with the CP380. I need help choosing between them as I plan on using one of them. I plan to use the XT1086 horn with an XO around 1.6K. Has anyone on here use both and care to give an opinion? I read on some forums the Beyma likes a lower XO a bit better than the B&C. What are your thoughts?
I was looking at the Beyma as I wanted to try something different but without hearing them I wanted some opinions from this group.
I was looking at the Beyma as I wanted to try something different but without hearing them I wanted some opinions from this group.
I own both, but you'd be hard pressed to say one is significantly better than the other. Depending on the rest of the system, the XT1086 is losing pattern control around 1k6 and I doubt would load much below there either, so being the limiting factor.
Any horn recommendations other than the 18 sound? QSC? RCF H100? I don't need all that wide of coverage in my room as it is fairly long and narrow. I will mating it to a 10" so I need a somewhat low XO point. Especially for a 1" compression driver.
I am thinking of the Faital 10FH520 for the mids.
I am thinking of the Faital 10FH520 for the mids.
See this Flex Your PCD Mettle: - Techtalk at Parts-Express.com for all of the needed relevant data on the 250 in several horns. You gotta read the whole thing though as some of the testing bounces around a bit.
I've posted that I found the DE250 to not sound as good as the 18sound NSD1095N, but this was on an XT1086 waveguide, so perhaps not a big surprise.
However, when mounted on a Dayton 12", with the obvious compromise of an adaptor, albeit given a lot of attention, the DE250 sounded better than either driver/XT1086 combo (and better than the NSD1095N on the Dayton). (and better still with Earl's open cell foam).
The response is very smooth, needing Eq of course, with the exception of some resonance at 12kHz beyond 70 degrees, presumably the adaptor.
The waveguide is supposed to be good to 1200Hz, but I believe it sounds better from 1800Hz.
However, when mounted on a Dayton 12", with the obvious compromise of an adaptor, albeit given a lot of attention, the DE250 sounded better than either driver/XT1086 combo (and better than the NSD1095N on the Dayton). (and better still with Earl's open cell foam).
The response is very smooth, needing Eq of course, with the exception of some resonance at 12kHz beyond 70 degrees, presumably the adaptor.
The waveguide is supposed to be good to 1200Hz, but I believe it sounds better from 1800Hz.
I'd get a different 10".
I've used both the JBL 2123 and the Acoustic Elegance TD10M with the 18Sound and QSC and JBL WG's, all around 1k5-1k8 and they sounded fine with a few different CDs. It's a little bit more (the AE) than the Faital but my gut says worth it.
The AE looks like a fantastic driver but I am not sure I need the extra entension at the expense of some efficiency. The Faital has shorting rings by default and it's not a $100.00 upgrade. It will be used as midrange duty only.
I have not made the purchase so I am still open to suggestions. I just have a hard time making a decision. The Beyma 10MI100 looks nice as well.
I am presently but slowly in the works with the 380M/XT1086 combo. I just received a pair of Celestion TF1220 I have chosen for midbass duty. I will report results later.
Jacq.
Jacq.
The Lambda motor has an entire copper sleeve in it. The extra Apollo rings are an upgrade if you choose.
AE Speakers Lambda motor
I bought mine to use as midranges.
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Thanks TrueSound I think the Beyma is the one. Now I just need to make up my mind on a midbass driver.
Ok so I have been playing around in WinISD on the Faital 10FH520 between seal vs. vented. I think a sealed version would be better to mate with the existing subwoofers. The response is flatter down to the Xover point (around 90Hz) for the vented alignment but with the rise in impedance on the sealed alignment shouldn't I be able to compensate with EQ without taxing the amplifier at the cost of some extra excursion of the Faital? At 6mm Xmax I don't think I will have any issues. I this logical thinking? Should I be considering other parameters? BTW this will be an MTM setup. Looks like the Beyma CP380 on an XT1086 horn. Xover will be all active using a good old DCX-2496 (existing).
Another reason I want to try the Faital is the offering is fairly new and there don't seem to be any projects based on it. Mms is low, Le is very low and overall it looks like a good candidate for this project. Are there any glaring reasons not to use this woofer? I know the AE is an outstanding woofer I just want to try something different.
Another reason I want to try the Faital is the offering is fairly new and there don't seem to be any projects based on it. Mms is low, Le is very low and overall it looks like a good candidate for this project. Are there any glaring reasons not to use this woofer? I know the AE is an outstanding woofer I just want to try something different.
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No experience with or comments on the driver choices, but the box tuning looks a little unusual. The sealed version is very low Q resulting in, perhaps, rolloff earlier than you want...try a smaller box for a Q of .6 or .7 and see how you like the response. The ported version is peaking on the bottom end (may sound boomy)...try tuning so the bottom end of the shelf does not rise once it has begun to roll off.
I tried a higher Qtc for sealed and there was only a subtle difference in the roll off but with the lower Qtc I gain a couple dB near the Xover. The volume of the enclosure is near Vas.
Here is a plot with a 4th order High Pass 80Hz LR applied to the ported box. As a system it's not bad.
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In the EQ/Filter section try a Linkwitz transform on the sealed box with the goal being Q=.71 at 80 Hz. Then add an 80 Hz 2nd order Butterworth highpass and you'll end up with LR4-80 acoustic response. The acoustic response of your ported box + 4th order filter is more like 8th order.
If i was building an MTM with Faital tens and a compression driver, here's what I'd do:
#1 - Due to the low QTS, you won't get much bass out of the Faital woofers. I'd consider using a resistor to raise QES. That will lower the F3 of your sealed box.
#2 - Another option is to use a ported box, but as you noted, that will make it difficult to integrate with subwoofers. Geddes used to use a ported alignment with the Summas that I'm running, but he switched to a sealed design for similar reasons IIRC
#3 - The height of your array is going to be at least thirty inches. In my home, I've found that it's challenging to find a room big enough for such a large array. Depending on the size of your room, you may be better suited with a smaller array. (Large arrays sound better from further away, due to the transition from nearfield to farfield.)
#1 - Due to the low QTS, you won't get much bass out of the Faital woofers. I'd consider using a resistor to raise QES. That will lower the F3 of your sealed box.
#2 - Another option is to use a ported box, but as you noted, that will make it difficult to integrate with subwoofers. Geddes used to use a ported alignment with the Summas that I'm running, but he switched to a sealed design for similar reasons IIRC
#3 - The height of your array is going to be at least thirty inches. In my home, I've found that it's challenging to find a room big enough for such a large array. Depending on the size of your room, you may be better suited with a smaller array. (Large arrays sound better from further away, due to the transition from nearfield to farfield.)
Luckily I have a dedicated listening room in the basement and get about 25’ from the speakers. This should be far enough from the array. There are also 4 18” woofers for the low end however I like to keep them at idle most of the time. Something about lots of woofer working just a little bit sounds great.
Do you have any other midbass recommendations? I know the Faital has a low QTS but it not as bad as some of the other midrange type drivers. I have a lot of power so I should be able to EQ the roll off out and with the rising impedance the amp should be happy until it runs out of voltage and current will be low.
The new JBL dual coil differential drive midbass's are excellent, especially in the midrange. I use the 2265HP. http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/JBL_TN%201-33%20rev3.pdf
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