Yes its a keeper : )
Can say all i have benchmarked works flawless and performs average good SR/IR 44,1/48/88,2/96 and really good when at 176,4/192 (Note under WDM 88,2/176,4 is not available choices but they work under WASAPI/ASIO and that detail was advertised on product page so okay, think its possible a Win7 or MS restriction and maybe will be available for Win8/8,1/10 users).
Channel 1-2 physical placed on mainboard sound better than channel 3-8 which is placed on daughterboard. On Essence ST i didn't sence a difference but probably because on this new type "II" OP amp configuration on mainboard is upgraded where daughterboard still has exactly same config as on the PCI version channel 1-8. Tomorrow a bunch of fair priced new OP amps will arrive and hope will get channel 3-8 closer or better than channel 1-2. Will then have NJM4580/OPA2134/TL072/MUSES8820 to make combination onto daughterboard. Channel 1-2 have two MUSES8920 and one MUSES8820 but they far too exotic in cost for my budget and have high hopes for NJM4580 normal suit my taste. The nice thing with daughterboard is its simple to remove and shift OP amps, they even put a tool and some amps in the box and also the 220uF output caps as seen on picture could be upgraded to Nichison FG type as is used on mainboard for channel 1-2.
Have you had any time to example try combine TC9 a woofer as a dirty quick temporary FAST system : )
Can say all i have benchmarked works flawless and performs average good SR/IR 44,1/48/88,2/96 and really good when at 176,4/192 (Note under WDM 88,2/176,4 is not available choices but they work under WASAPI/ASIO and that detail was advertised on product page so okay, think its possible a Win7 or MS restriction and maybe will be available for Win8/8,1/10 users).
Channel 1-2 physical placed on mainboard sound better than channel 3-8 which is placed on daughterboard. On Essence ST i didn't sence a difference but probably because on this new type "II" OP amp configuration on mainboard is upgraded where daughterboard still has exactly same config as on the PCI version channel 1-8. Tomorrow a bunch of fair priced new OP amps will arrive and hope will get channel 3-8 closer or better than channel 1-2. Will then have NJM4580/OPA2134/TL072/MUSES8820 to make combination onto daughterboard. Channel 1-2 have two MUSES8920 and one MUSES8820 but they far too exotic in cost for my budget and have high hopes for NJM4580 normal suit my taste. The nice thing with daughterboard is its simple to remove and shift OP amps, they even put a tool and some amps in the box and also the 220uF output caps as seen on picture could be upgraded to Nichison FG type as is used on mainboard for channel 1-2.
Have you had any time to example try combine TC9 a woofer as a dirty quick temporary FAST system : )
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Wow, impressive looking sound card.
It appears that the main card is $260, but it is another +$200 for daughter board!?
It appears that the main card is $260, but it is another +$200 for daughter board!?
Yes there is some nice looking tech for the eye : )
Two configs available but same hardware:
Essence STX II (Soundcard alone at 215€)
Daughterboard H6 and a cable (upgrade above to below config at 52€)
Essence STX II 7.1 (Soundcard + Daughterbord at 250€)
Think some buy the 2 channel version with intension to get a good headphone source, has current feedback model onboard TI TPA6210A2.
Two configs available but same hardware:
Essence STX II (Soundcard alone at 215€)
Daughterboard H6 and a cable (upgrade above to below config at 52€)
Essence STX II 7.1 (Soundcard + Daughterbord at 250€)
Think some buy the 2 channel version with intension to get a good headphone source, has current feedback model onboard TI TPA6210A2.
Cool, thanks for the feedback.
I've been introduced to Steinbergs interfaces lately. They look really good for the money.
The UR28M looks really nice, with support for Asio, Core Audio and WDM. This unit does up to 96kHz, but has a setup for 5.1 listening. Reasonably priced at $400.
Their higher end model, which is a beast, supports up to 192kHz and 7.1 setups. A bit more expensive and its features are overkill for most home listening setups.
Mostly, their drivers seem to be top notch, and up to date. They are also very honest as they mention quite clearly their interface does not work yet with some updates from Apple.
I've been introduced to Steinbergs interfaces lately. They look really good for the money.
The UR28M looks really nice, with support for Asio, Core Audio and WDM. This unit does up to 96kHz, but has a setup for 5.1 listening. Reasonably priced at $400.
Their higher end model, which is a beast, supports up to 192kHz and 7.1 setups. A bit more expensive and its features are overkill for most home listening setups.
Mostly, their drivers seem to be top notch, and up to date. They are also very honest as they mention quite clearly their interface does not work yet with some updates from Apple.
Ok,
Since the hopes of getting the TC9 locally has vanished again, I decided to follow wesayso's philosophy and try to use what I got and work on it.
This was the original Aura response and impulse, which wasn't great, but not a total loss either.
After spending about half an hour with REW and adding some basic EQ to get the response a bit more tamed, I added DRC, and this is what I got on the second try.
I may have found a way to bring this thing back to life. And a driver worthy of arrays? hmmm....
Since the hopes of getting the TC9 locally has vanished again, I decided to follow wesayso's philosophy and try to use what I got and work on it.
This was the original Aura response and impulse, which wasn't great, but not a total loss either.
After spending about half an hour with REW and adding some basic EQ to get the response a bit more tamed, I added DRC, and this is what I got on the second try.
I may have found a way to bring this thing back to life. And a driver worthy of arrays? hmmm....
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Wow what a change, except couple blibs in GD on a coarse time scale FR/IR looks very pro, what happened.
I do hope you didn't hammer it down into shape. Because that's not going to work. What kind of window was used here in DRC?
You've got to realise that 25x the Aura, recorded at the listening position will all have the initial ringing in their separate 25 pulses. Together they are hammered back into shape with FIR filters. That's why I recommended to at least sniff on the TC9 to see how a really clean driver does. Do you get what I'm trying to say? It all adds up. Did you listen to it? Did it sound good?
You will probably be able to get a good sound though. Much like the Aura sounds by itself, but on steroids 😀. But there's no telling if you can get it as nice with an array as the above example. Please do the same processing on a TC9 and show those results. Will it do even better, just that single one vs this Aura?
You've got to realise that 25x the Aura, recorded at the listening position will all have the initial ringing in their separate 25 pulses. Together they are hammered back into shape with FIR filters. That's why I recommended to at least sniff on the TC9 to see how a really clean driver does. Do you get what I'm trying to say? It all adds up. Did you listen to it? Did it sound good?
You will probably be able to get a good sound though. Much like the Aura sounds by itself, but on steroids 😀. But there's no telling if you can get it as nice with an array as the above example. Please do the same processing on a TC9 and show those results. Will it do even better, just that single one vs this Aura?
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Here's what I did.
I lowered the rising mountain from 1k to 8k.
I lowered the hill from 9k to 12k.
I brought up the sinking hole at 14.5k.
I exported the impulse response into DRC. I used the "Normal" preset filter just for fun, no extra tweaking.
Ran REW again and got the above.
Yes, up to 120ish Hz, it sounds pushed above it's ability. I should have had the DRC curve coming up much later than it is now for a single driver. I got excited.
Anything above 200Hz sounds great though. I actually like the sound coming out of the Auras, just that drop at 14kHz that I didn't like... but it looks like DRC can help there.
After that, I placed the TC9 in the enclosure using the exact same processing. The only difference showed the bump the Auras needed to bring the last upper end of the range up, otherwise, the frequency response looked pretty much the same.
I lowered the rising mountain from 1k to 8k.
I lowered the hill from 9k to 12k.
I brought up the sinking hole at 14.5k.
I exported the impulse response into DRC. I used the "Normal" preset filter just for fun, no extra tweaking.
Ran REW again and got the above.
Yes, up to 120ish Hz, it sounds pushed above it's ability. I should have had the DRC curve coming up much later than it is now for a single driver. I got excited.
Anything above 200Hz sounds great though. I actually like the sound coming out of the Auras, just that drop at 14kHz that I didn't like... but it looks like DRC can help there.
After that, I placed the TC9 in the enclosure using the exact same processing. The only difference showed the bump the Auras needed to bring the last upper end of the range up, otherwise, the frequency response looked pretty much the same.
With that single driver, try the soft template and compare to this one hammered down with the Normal template. It will have less cycles of correction and gives you an idea of the differences. After that go custom and try even shorter corrections in the low and mid frequencies. Pay attention to what it sounds like. Without obvious boosts of coarse, that single driver does have it's limitations. Play close attention to the differences you hear. Even if the frequency response looks the same at times. It's a good way to learn how this works.
The beauty is: once you've got the impulse measurement, you can start playing with settings in DRC Designer. Test it out and listen. A hammered in to shape low end sounds weird fast! Let it loose a bit and it gets more natural. You can always hook up the mic and check what you like with a measurement. That's how I learned my way around REW. And got way more insight in what the measurements are telling us.
The beauty is: once you've got the impulse measurement, you can start playing with settings in DRC Designer. Test it out and listen. A hammered in to shape low end sounds weird fast! Let it loose a bit and it gets more natural. You can always hook up the mic and check what you like with a measurement. That's how I learned my way around REW. And got way more insight in what the measurements are telling us.
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Getting close to midnight here, so listening time is pretty much over.
I did high pass that "Normal" filter at 120Hz, and it sounded nice.
It's a single driver, and a single enclosure, so I'll have to see at one point to build a stereo one. I never listen to something as strong as the "Normal" filter on my other builds, but it was just a test. Still, I was hoping it proved a point.
I already have the Minimal" filter done, but I am out of listening and testing time, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.
I did high pass that "Normal" filter at 120Hz, and it sounded nice.
It's a single driver, and a single enclosure, so I'll have to see at one point to build a stereo one. I never listen to something as strong as the "Normal" filter on my other builds, but it was just a test. Still, I was hoping it proved a point.
I already have the Minimal" filter done, but I am out of listening and testing time, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.
Stayed in the classroom to listen and play with the Aura in my EVA sealed enclosure.
Got a little quiet time, which would be impossible in the living room.
So, this is what I needed to get the response a bit flatter before DRC, this was done very crudely with Apple's own graphic EQ and a small boost at 14.5kHz. A real test would be done with much better filters and control.
After that, I made a sweep with REW, exported the wav, changed to pcm and let DRC Designer come out with soft and minimal filter presets (I don't need it to be perfect, I need to know if it can be done).
Added a hipass filter at 125Hz, to protect the little driver in the sealed enclosure.
And the resulting response. The impulse looks just like the one I published earlier. I don't think I beat this Aura into shape too much.
How does that sound?
Pretty good!
I tried the Soft filter, and it started to sound boxy, I didn't like it, but the Minimal filter was just enough. More tweaking and it would be very good.
Since this was a single channel only, I played a trick on my brain by sitting with my back and the back of my head on the back wall. Made a stereo signal out of that single channel (reflections) and it was nice.
Got a little quiet time, which would be impossible in the living room.
So, this is what I needed to get the response a bit flatter before DRC, this was done very crudely with Apple's own graphic EQ and a small boost at 14.5kHz. A real test would be done with much better filters and control.
After that, I made a sweep with REW, exported the wav, changed to pcm and let DRC Designer come out with soft and minimal filter presets (I don't need it to be perfect, I need to know if it can be done).
Added a hipass filter at 125Hz, to protect the little driver in the sealed enclosure.
And the resulting response. The impulse looks just like the one I published earlier. I don't think I beat this Aura into shape too much.
How does that sound?
Pretty good!
I tried the Soft filter, and it started to sound boxy, I didn't like it, but the Minimal filter was just enough. More tweaking and it would be very good.
Since this was a single channel only, I played a trick on my brain by sitting with my back and the back of my head on the back wall. Made a stereo signal out of that single channel (reflections) and it was nice.
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The minimal filter looks like a 5 cycle window all the way. Half of what the "Normal" pre-set would give you. Looks like you're heading for a new project 😉.
woohoo!
This is exciting.
Now if I can just make up my mind on the kind of enclosure I want.
I can't do corner placement like Ra7, And after watching you do your towers for so long, I don't think I have that kind of patience!
This is exciting.
Now if I can just make up my mind on the kind of enclosure I want.
I can't do corner placement like Ra7, And after watching you do your towers for so long, I don't think I have that kind of patience!
Great you found potential for new build, if you can't make your mind and need more time planning/testing/building see below suggestion for a fast build to use in meantime that guess will outperform your current 8" TB.
Make some dirty quick foam core enclosures for a FAST setup TC9 and 8" TB with simple capacitor for TC9 and a inductor for 8" TB, and give tweeter and woofer each their enclosure so as acoustic offset can be dialed in sliding cabinets and so that the two plans that meet each other will bring drivers ctc distance as close as possible. Had a couple of months TC9 paired a 10" woofer with BW1 XO and remember it sounds great, a drawback BW1 filter is because drivers is not in and or out of phase but being 90º apart one get a tilted lobe and that lobe frq wise is very wide because drivers blend over wide low order slope but pay back on design axis with transient perfect IR. XO in 400-700Hz area depending ctc distance and EQ system upstream after source player. Here a link to setup one of the first days running BW1 for TC9, got it dialed in much better later but that's not posted there because then 10F got into the picture http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...4-rs225-8-fast-ref-monitor-7.html#post4310944.
Make some dirty quick foam core enclosures for a FAST setup TC9 and 8" TB with simple capacitor for TC9 and a inductor for 8" TB, and give tweeter and woofer each their enclosure so as acoustic offset can be dialed in sliding cabinets and so that the two plans that meet each other will bring drivers ctc distance as close as possible. Had a couple of months TC9 paired a 10" woofer with BW1 XO and remember it sounds great, a drawback BW1 filter is because drivers is not in and or out of phase but being 90º apart one get a tilted lobe and that lobe frq wise is very wide because drivers blend over wide low order slope but pay back on design axis with transient perfect IR. XO in 400-700Hz area depending ctc distance and EQ system upstream after source player. Here a link to setup one of the first days running BW1 for TC9, got it dialed in much better later but that's not posted there because then 10F got into the picture http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...4-rs225-8-fast-ref-monitor-7.html#post4310944.
No foam core around here. Best I could do was EVA.
I might try that and use JRiver to do the crossover, for fun, but my mind will be on coming up with an enclosure other than a square box if possible.
wesayso already talked me out of shaping an enclosure in foam and wrapping it in fiberglass, mentioning it wouldn't have enough mass.
I liked this, but that would mean spacing the drivers farther from each other, lowering the combing frequency (I guess that's why they added the row of tweeters! which is something I won't do)
I might try that and use JRiver to do the crossover, for fun, but my mind will be on coming up with an enclosure other than a square box if possible.
wesayso already talked me out of shaping an enclosure in foam and wrapping it in fiberglass, mentioning it wouldn't have enough mass.
I liked this, but that would mean spacing the drivers farther from each other, lowering the combing frequency (I guess that's why they added the row of tweeters! which is something I won't do)
Now don't let me stop you, it might just work if it's stiff enough. No need to adopt my crazy ideas... I wanted the mass to counter the moving mass.
My arrays weigh about 65-70 Kg each. The moving mass is 65 gram. 1000:1 😱 As a result the enclosure is pretty dead. But I have no reference to compare. So I can't make claims.
You could craft beautiful shapes with foam and fibreglass. It could be worth a try. 🙂
P.S. I love the Scaena's look, still I wonder about the shape of the mid enclosures. Look at:
Option C didn't look that good to me.
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