Hi i bought a super 12 a few month's ago.I have read everything i could on this model.I at first was going to build a 5.6 cab for it.i even bought and cut the wood but after reasearch found i needed a bigger cab.
I put my super 12 in a 10. 5 cubic foot box with a port 2 inch's i diameter and 1.5 inch's long.
This is what my software told me to use and i similar to what i have read is recomended by other's except for a 3 inch port tuned a little different.
I stuffed half of the wall's with 2 inch stuffing.
Well it sounded very forward.I scratched my head as it had weak bass.Until i found this thread.
I built this crossover with the one part missing which i will add later.I think the 5k notch filter.I forget the exact spec.
Well what can i say michael chua transformed this speaker!!!
It's now balanced with good tight base.
It's not forward at all.Thank's for the work mr chua!!!
Im a newbe to fr speaker's but i have built a few other type's.I'm no expert though.
What i found interesting is how all that crossover didn't hurt the transparancy.You would think it would as it seem's most fr guy's want no crossover but i love mine.
Second these super 12's need hundered's of hour's to break in.
Third i have read of ob guys useing a crossover to boost the low end.I used a eq to boot my top end 16 k and above.Wowow! It's like a revelation.I don't need a tweeter at all just that eq.Now im looking for a better one.mine's pretty old but still make's these thing's sparkle up top.
What i learned from this project is this i would of gone to the 15 incher and got even better base.Tried to figure out some notch filter's like michael chua did and added a eq for anything over 15k.
In some way's this seem's to me to be a easy way to good sound.
Is my set up a world beater nope but it sound's way better than any single driver should.
I do not need a tweeder and i have good base to 30 hz.
Anyways if your going to use this speaker factor in the crossover.
Thanks for the work michael!
I'm running mine with a restored fisher 500 c and td 160,nak 505.
I put my super 12 in a 10. 5 cubic foot box with a port 2 inch's i diameter and 1.5 inch's long.
This is what my software told me to use and i similar to what i have read is recomended by other's except for a 3 inch port tuned a little different.
I stuffed half of the wall's with 2 inch stuffing.
Well it sounded very forward.I scratched my head as it had weak bass.Until i found this thread.
I built this crossover with the one part missing which i will add later.I think the 5k notch filter.I forget the exact spec.
Well what can i say michael chua transformed this speaker!!!
It's now balanced with good tight base.
It's not forward at all.Thank's for the work mr chua!!!
Im a newbe to fr speaker's but i have built a few other type's.I'm no expert though.
What i found interesting is how all that crossover didn't hurt the transparancy.You would think it would as it seem's most fr guy's want no crossover but i love mine.
Second these super 12's need hundered's of hour's to break in.
Third i have read of ob guys useing a crossover to boost the low end.I used a eq to boot my top end 16 k and above.Wowow! It's like a revelation.I don't need a tweeter at all just that eq.Now im looking for a better one.mine's pretty old but still make's these thing's sparkle up top.
What i learned from this project is this i would of gone to the 15 incher and got even better base.Tried to figure out some notch filter's like michael chua did and added a eq for anything over 15k.
In some way's this seem's to me to be a easy way to good sound.
Is my set up a world beater nope but it sound's way better than any single driver should.
I do not need a tweeder and i have good base to 30 hz.
Anyways if your going to use this speaker factor in the crossover.
Thanks for the work michael!
I'm running mine with a restored fisher 500 c and td 160,nak 505.
Hi roro1
Great to hear the EQ network works for you.
Once the mids and highs are tamed, the Super 12 sounds quite nice. It is not perfect but for the price and a bit of extra for the EQ components, it hard to beat. And it looks sexy too.
One aspect I like is the transparency which is very difficult to get in speakers with passive crossovers. I believe it is this transparency that attributes to its' "life-like" qualities. Enjoy.
Regards
Mike
Great to hear the EQ network works for you.
Once the mids and highs are tamed, the Super 12 sounds quite nice. It is not perfect but for the price and a bit of extra for the EQ components, it hard to beat. And it looks sexy too.
One aspect I like is the transparency which is very difficult to get in speakers with passive crossovers. I believe it is this transparency that attributes to its' "life-like" qualities. Enjoy.
Regards
Mike
tx
Michael;
Thanks for posting your testing on the AN cast 12 . I definitely appreciated it and enjoyed reading your posts .
I just assembled a board for my 12's with your posted Zobel , contour network and the 2.5 K notch filter using the lowest DCR components I could afford. Mills resistors and Jantzen P Core coils. I used a slightly lower resistor on the Zobel , a 12.5 .
They are going to be installed in the cabinets this week .
I tried a listening test before board assembly and it seemed to smooth some things out that were minor problem areas . I also changed the toe-in on the speakers too .
As I use a SET 7 watt amp I didn't want to go the whole component route although I may add the 15 K notch later . Not sure .
Previously I had been using a 31 band stereo eq but took it out of the chain . It helped on bright recordings but not so much on better recordings .
Michael;
Thanks for posting your testing on the AN cast 12 . I definitely appreciated it and enjoyed reading your posts .
I just assembled a board for my 12's with your posted Zobel , contour network and the 2.5 K notch filter using the lowest DCR components I could afford. Mills resistors and Jantzen P Core coils. I used a slightly lower resistor on the Zobel , a 12.5 .
They are going to be installed in the cabinets this week .
I tried a listening test before board assembly and it seemed to smooth some things out that were minor problem areas . I also changed the toe-in on the speakers too .
As I use a SET 7 watt amp I didn't want to go the whole component route although I may add the 15 K notch later . Not sure .
Previously I had been using a 31 band stereo eq but took it out of the chain . It helped on bright recordings but not so much on better recordings .
filter cable
Hi there: MJ King states in part: "[BSC] Filtering can be.... very exotic speaker cable". What "very exotic speaker cable" is available to be substituted for a BSC filter circuit? Is this a DIY design or a manufactured product? Is there DIY design/construction information available? ... regards, Michael
Hi there: MJ King states in part: "[BSC] Filtering can be.... very exotic speaker cable". What "very exotic speaker cable" is available to be substituted for a BSC filter circuit? Is this a DIY design or a manufactured product? Is there DIY design/construction information available? ... regards, Michael
I think MJK was saying there that "very exotic speaker cable" is merely acting as a tone control sometimes. And then the total combination mitigates the baffle step issue (with some luck, trial and error). Much better (and cheaper, and faster, and more accurate) would be to engineer the solution directly.
Digital EQ is a great way to go, if your source is digital. You can also engineer some compensation into the enclosure itself (the right amount of bass boost, or midrange/trebel cut, taking into account the baffle width, room placement, driver's natural response, series resistances etc.)
Digital EQ is a great way to go, if your source is digital. You can also engineer some compensation into the enclosure itself (the right amount of bass boost, or midrange/trebel cut, taking into account the baffle width, room placement, driver's natural response, series resistances etc.)
You're welcome. I believe those 3 are the most important ones. You can add the rest progressively later if you wish.
Have fun.
Regards
Mike
Ok before I go crushing my budget friendly dreams are we saying that for a HiFi guy who want some high quality drivers there might be better options than the FR AN 12?
I have never used a fullrange driver before so this is all new to me. My first speaker build was a SLA using cheap parts and it sounds pretty good. Then I used Audyssey on my AVR and it sounds much better. Now I am wanting to upgrade and have alot more punch and articulation available if needed in a movie and smooth accurate reproduction of music.
I had talked to David Dicks and he suggested the 15" Coax in a 5.6 cabinet. It seemed like it would be a good choice but I am used to dual 12's or 15's for the under 700hz with high xmax's.
So before I go buying a bunch of AN speakers for a 5 channel build am I going to be upset in the end with my purchase?
All this negativity has me rethinking my ideas. I have some other designs I thought of building but they are all quite a bit more coin. (Ewave using AE15", Jamboree, KLF-30 clone)
SO I dont want to get sold ion something because of a salesperson and dont want to knock the guy who loves his speakers I just want to make sure that something I will never be able to hear first, will to be to my liking when I build them and then hear them.
I have never used a fullrange driver before so this is all new to me. My first speaker build was a SLA using cheap parts and it sounds pretty good. Then I used Audyssey on my AVR and it sounds much better. Now I am wanting to upgrade and have alot more punch and articulation available if needed in a movie and smooth accurate reproduction of music.
I had talked to David Dicks and he suggested the 15" Coax in a 5.6 cabinet. It seemed like it would be a good choice but I am used to dual 12's or 15's for the under 700hz with high xmax's.
So before I go buying a bunch of AN speakers for a 5 channel build am I going to be upset in the end with my purchase?
All this negativity has me rethinking my ideas. I have some other designs I thought of building but they are all quite a bit more coin. (Ewave using AE15", Jamboree, KLF-30 clone)
SO I dont want to get sold ion something because of a salesperson and dont want to knock the guy who loves his speakers I just want to make sure that something I will never be able to hear first, will to be to my liking when I build them and then hear them.
correction circuits
After some time listening with the board installed in my Audio Nirvana cast frame 12's I've pulled the two notch circuits out .
They did their job of taming the two most prominent midrange peaks and instruments like trumpet and violin were noticeable smoother.....but. I had to turn my 7 watt SET amp more and the driver noticeably seemed to have some charm sucked out of it.Especially noticeable with vinyl lp's.
On the other hand , the Zobel which Michael was kind to post works tremendously and makes a large improvement in performance.
I left the contour circuit in place.
Put my 31 band stereo eq back in the rack and I cut those 2 prominent midrange peaks by 3 dbs with other sliders set flat
Has anyone changed the six inch port length on the standard CSA BVR plans from 3/4" to anything different ?
After some time listening with the board installed in my Audio Nirvana cast frame 12's I've pulled the two notch circuits out .
They did their job of taming the two most prominent midrange peaks and instruments like trumpet and violin were noticeable smoother.....but. I had to turn my 7 watt SET amp more and the driver noticeably seemed to have some charm sucked out of it.Especially noticeable with vinyl lp's.
On the other hand , the Zobel which Michael was kind to post works tremendously and makes a large improvement in performance.
I left the contour circuit in place.
Put my 31 band stereo eq back in the rack and I cut those 2 prominent midrange peaks by 3 dbs with other sliders set flat
Has anyone changed the six inch port length on the standard CSA BVR plans from 3/4" to anything different ?
I have tried a 6 inch length on mine a few times and always end up going back to the 3/4. No measurements, just by what I hear and feel.
alfredo
just tried a 6 inch diameter port with 4 inch length. Blecch
Didn't care for what it did so went back to the stock 3/4 X 6 inch port.
I did notice that taking the grilles off improves the "tweeter" part of the cones performance slightly. Maybe getting the wooden grille edge out of the way helped.
I'm probably going to build a larger set of cabinets for these cast frame 12's at some point. My living room is too small for the 160 liter one , but the 80 l may be a bit too small for best performance.
I wonder if cutting rebates on the baffle to flush mount the drivers would be an improvement over their current surface mount ?
If I do build a larger cabinet I'll probably use at least 1 inch BB for the baffle and more window braces than the brace that the 80 liter cabinets that were built for me by Wyatt Woodworking. I'll do roundovers on the baffle edge too
Didn't care for what it did so went back to the stock 3/4 X 6 inch port.
I did notice that taking the grilles off improves the "tweeter" part of the cones performance slightly. Maybe getting the wooden grille edge out of the way helped.
I'm probably going to build a larger set of cabinets for these cast frame 12's at some point. My living room is too small for the 160 liter one , but the 80 l may be a bit too small for best performance.
I wonder if cutting rebates on the baffle to flush mount the drivers would be an improvement over their current surface mount ?
If I do build a larger cabinet I'll probably use at least 1 inch BB for the baffle and more window braces than the brace that the 80 liter cabinets that were built for me by Wyatt Woodworking. I'll do roundovers on the baffle edge too
Any idea on the Le rating for the Audio Nirvana drivers? I have the 12, 10, 8, 6.5's
I'm hoping someone will know the inductance rating on the Audio Nirvana drivers. Any ideas? I have thet 12, 10, 8, and 6.5's in cast, and the stamped basket 8's. Let me know if you know! Thanks!
I'm hoping someone will know the inductance rating on the Audio Nirvana drivers. Any ideas? I have thet 12, 10, 8, and 6.5's in cast, and the stamped basket 8's. Let me know if you know! Thanks!
AN Super 10
Hi Mike
I learned so much from this. I'm thinking of using the AN Super 10 in a 2.8 cu ft cab due to room size. Do you suppose the 10" will be similarly peaky in response and need similar treatment.
Newbie in DYI speaker.
Dan
Hi Mike
I learned so much from this. I'm thinking of using the AN Super 10 in a 2.8 cu ft cab due to room size. Do you suppose the 10" will be similarly peaky in response and need similar treatment.
Newbie in DYI speaker.
Dan
update
Not sure sure if anyone will view an update to an old posted topic but....
After removing the notch filter on my AN Cast 12's to cut the highest midpeak since it sucked a bit too much life out of the driver sound I then opted to using a stereo 31 band EQ to cut there by a few db's .
Recently I have been bypassing the EQ and finally just removed it from the chain altogether and now listen to the AN 12's with only the Zobel and Contour filter still in place .
It seems as though after passing so many hours of music playing use the driver may have changed somewhat and the mid peaks aren't as noticeable . They were always apparent with no notch at that freq when listening to trumpet or violin and that no longer has that fizziness present.
Since I recently purchased the Dayton DATS I plan on measuring the parameters of these speakers
Not sure sure if anyone will view an update to an old posted topic but....
After removing the notch filter on my AN Cast 12's to cut the highest midpeak since it sucked a bit too much life out of the driver sound I then opted to using a stereo 31 band EQ to cut there by a few db's .
Recently I have been bypassing the EQ and finally just removed it from the chain altogether and now listen to the AN 12's with only the Zobel and Contour filter still in place .
It seems as though after passing so many hours of music playing use the driver may have changed somewhat and the mid peaks aren't as noticeable . They were always apparent with no notch at that freq when listening to trumpet or violin and that no longer has that fizziness present.
Since I recently purchased the Dayton DATS I plan on measuring the parameters of these speakers
Hi Dan
Sorry for not replying. I didn't receive any notice about your post.
I haven't tested the 10" but there's a good chance it'll be peaky.
I heard from some owners complaining that their ANs are Shouty. I think that's an apt description. It certainly was for me when I first heard it. That's the reason why I decided to do some measurements.
Feel free to tweak the contour filters. Replace the resistors with a lower value and you'll regain some "life" in the music.
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