Hello
It is not the wire that is crucial after " power" has left the cap . It is was happens at the end of the wire.
I know they are not state of the art for use in audio but wether you feed the electrical system of a train or an amplifier the physical laws remain the same.
If in a few years time the supercaps with the latest " developed" material come available to the general public and esr within the cap goes down 50 % it will be pretty useless if 80 % of the total esr up to the trace on our boards is " made " once the cable reach the board.
Greetings , Eduard
P.s i was using big sealed lead batteries before the majority of people had their first decent gear.
It is not the wire that is crucial after " power" has left the cap . It is was happens at the end of the wire.
I know they are not state of the art for use in audio but wether you feed the electrical system of a train or an amplifier the physical laws remain the same.
If in a few years time the supercaps with the latest " developed" material come available to the general public and esr within the cap goes down 50 % it will be pretty useless if 80 % of the total esr up to the trace on our boards is " made " once the cable reach the board.
Greetings , Eduard
P.s i was using big sealed lead batteries before the majority of people had their first decent gear.
Hello,
We don't use awg in Europe so i sometimes have to check the internet to get an idea about the equivalent in millimeters .
I think the pin that is used to solder the green terminal to the board is 18 awg could be 19 too.
I think that ditching that connector and solder a 18 awg nice quality wire directly onto the board will have lower esr than a connector.
I remember skipping the loudspeaker terminals on the back of my loudspeakers and solder the cables right on to the crossover. The terminals on my speakers back then were a little bit better than the ones on my Yamaha integrated. The difference was big. I had short cables back then but skipping the terminals gave at least the same improvement as changing cables
When people have problems with battery in the car it is usually at the terminals.
When i am back home i will look for the datasheet of these green connectors. I hope they are Molex and not even cheaper Chinese or Indian knock offs
Greetings Eduard
We don't use awg in Europe so i sometimes have to check the internet to get an idea about the equivalent in millimeters .
I think the pin that is used to solder the green terminal to the board is 18 awg could be 19 too.
I think that ditching that connector and solder a 18 awg nice quality wire directly onto the board will have lower esr than a connector.
I remember skipping the loudspeaker terminals on the back of my loudspeakers and solder the cables right on to the crossover. The terminals on my speakers back then were a little bit better than the ones on my Yamaha integrated. The difference was big. I had short cables back then but skipping the terminals gave at least the same improvement as changing cables
When people have problems with battery in the car it is usually at the terminals.
When i am back home i will look for the datasheet of these green connectors. I hope they are Molex and not even cheaper Chinese or Indian knock offs
Greetings Eduard
Attachments
Totally agree and I spent thousands chasing a sound that was not possible in my room. I changed the room and boom the sound I wanted was delivered, huge impact
Eduard, I don't know if it's even worth it to add something to it, because everyone will in the end think what's convenient for him to think. If someone wants to have quad, octa or hexadeca ultra-giga capacitors for tiny clocks, well let them have it 
The most important thing is that after spending so much money, they'll FEEL good and that's what this is mainly about.
And to those, who don't want to mess with such big toys to be chasing down 1 to 1,5 mOhms at best (compared to the already big enough 325F Maxwells) - don't worry, you are probably not missing out much. There's so much more to gain by just bypassing the green connector, which itself has 20 (!) mOhms, let alone the change of resonance characteristics of the signal by passing through multiple layers of other materials (nickel plated brass and then solder of what compositions?). And that doesn't account for the loss of the imperfect connection of the often used solid-core cable in these connectors, which is only a small touch-point in reality, essentially making a bottleneck of the whole toy.
https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1912251631_Ningbo-Kangnex-Elec-WJ127-5-0-2P_C3703.pdf
The most important thing is that after spending so much money, they'll FEEL good and that's what this is mainly about.And to those, who don't want to mess with such big toys to be chasing down 1 to 1,5 mOhms at best (compared to the already big enough 325F Maxwells) - don't worry, you are probably not missing out much. There's so much more to gain by just bypassing the green connector, which itself has 20 (!) mOhms, let alone the change of resonance characteristics of the signal by passing through multiple layers of other materials (nickel plated brass and then solder of what compositions?). And that doesn't account for the loss of the imperfect connection of the often used solid-core cable in these connectors, which is only a small touch-point in reality, essentially making a bottleneck of the whole toy.
https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1912251631_Ningbo-Kangnex-Elec-WJ127-5-0-2P_C3703.pdf
Great discussion. Makes me consider unnecessary connectors everywhere. I can see using connectors while developing and refining a component and then in its final form use a well done solder connection as the last step.
To be totally obsessive, take it right back to the breaker panel. Michael Fremer describes his process of tracking down some issues in his system that involved installing a subpanel with high grade copper connectors vs 30 yr old corroded crap in his NJ house. https://www.stereophile.com/content/analog-corner-315-electrical
I have a nice 400 amp service with copper cables the size of my thumb from the utility transformer. My insurance co is doing some work on my house that will involve installing a 25kW backup generator and a new distribution panel. I'm going to drive the electrician crazy insisting he install an upgraded subpanel with good copper connectors to serve my audio room.
To be totally obsessive, take it right back to the breaker panel. Michael Fremer describes his process of tracking down some issues in his system that involved installing a subpanel with high grade copper connectors vs 30 yr old corroded crap in his NJ house. https://www.stereophile.com/content/analog-corner-315-electrical
I have a nice 400 amp service with copper cables the size of my thumb from the utility transformer. My insurance co is doing some work on my house that will involve installing a 25kW backup generator and a new distribution panel. I'm going to drive the electrician crazy insisting he install an upgraded subpanel with good copper connectors to serve my audio room.
@eduard This is certainly a bottleneck with numerous connectors everywhere. I plan to remove most of them and replace all the wiring with high-quality materials. I used to have a pair of Naim SBLs. The moment I soldered directly to the crossover, it made a significant improvement. Indeed, the devil is in the details, right?
@wolves I'm a big advocate for a dedicated sub-panel for our audio equipment. I implemented it once and carried it over to my new house. It ensures there are no dimmers or other signal-polluting devices in the chain, as these can adversely affect the signal quality, and you end up amplifying those issues if not careful. You won't regret driving an electrician a little crazy for this!
@wolves I'm a big advocate for a dedicated sub-panel for our audio equipment. I implemented it once and carried it over to my new house. It ensures there are no dimmers or other signal-polluting devices in the chain, as these can adversely affect the signal quality, and you end up amplifying those issues if not careful. You won't regret driving an electrician a little crazy for this!
Confirmation bias is indeed a very human trait, and I'm far from immune to it!Eduard, I don't know if it's even worth it to add something to it, because everyone will in the end think what's convenient for him to think. If someone wants to have quad, octa or hexadeca ultra-giga capacitors for tiny clocks, well let them have it
The thing is, I've been following this thread for quite some time, a lurker mostly, and I recently sold a DAC that was over 10 years old and cost around 12K at the time. I believe I can achieve better results, and everyone I know who runs preamps and DACs off the grid has never looked back.
On paper, these UC-Pure MKiii PSUs offer an order of magnitude improvement over the likes of Paul Hynes or Sean Jacobs. So, I took the plunge, and I'm determined to be as meticulous as possible, seeking out all the minute details to ensure the best sound quality.
If anyone has any remorse or regrets and has suggestions for building the ultimate version of Ian's platform, please don't hesitate to drop me a line. Better learn from others mistakes than making them myself, I'll do plenty anyway!
if you don't have the confidence to do that, you can send it to me, and I'll fix it for you... I'm from luxembourg and speak german, so we are (quasi
)practically neighbours@Aiello: Thanks for the offer. I have no experience with soldering so small connectors on PCBs. However this would be too tedious.
Even if I manage to solder it I do not like the fact that the connector is feeble. I did not apply force when connecting the cable. For sure I do not expect this from a finished product.
@iancanada: What alternatives are there to connect the 4 wires from MonitorPI PRO? Are the manual settings pins connected via the backplane to the control wires? If so pinout would be helpful.
Even if I manage to solder it I do not like the fact that the connector is feeble. I did not apply force when connecting the cable. For sure I do not expect this from a finished product.
@iancanada: What alternatives are there to connect the 4 wires from MonitorPI PRO? Are the manual settings pins connected via the backplane to the control wires? If so pinout would be helpful.
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Hello,
So two caps in series ( to obtain correct voltage rating) 2×0,23 mOhm plus 20mOhm ( worst case scenario) = 20,46 mOhm.
Adding an extra pair (2×0,23 mOhm ) /2= 0,23 mOhm plus 20 mOhm 20,23 mOhm.
Of course this will require an extra uc balancer board, more wires, more connections. Theoretically one should try to have the wire going to the consuming board in the center of the parallel connection?
Put to keep things simple 20,46 going down to 20,23 mohm is a little more than ONE procent. Better add one more pair!
Greetings,Eduard
So two caps in series ( to obtain correct voltage rating) 2×0,23 mOhm plus 20mOhm ( worst case scenario) = 20,46 mOhm.
Adding an extra pair (2×0,23 mOhm ) /2= 0,23 mOhm plus 20 mOhm 20,23 mOhm.
Of course this will require an extra uc balancer board, more wires, more connections. Theoretically one should try to have the wire going to the consuming board in the center of the parallel connection?
Put to keep things simple 20,46 going down to 20,23 mohm is a little more than ONE procent. Better add one more pair!
Greetings,Eduard
Sorry Ed, I fail to understand where the "plus 20 mOhms (worst case scenario)" comes from?
Jon
I went just for the streamer (i2s LVDS to a commercial DAC) with Ian Canada parts. I do not have so high expectations and I tend to be more realistic. There are products on the market engineered by very experienced people which I doubt can be beaten by DIY. This is a hobby. Our own made products for sure will beat in our own eyes higher end productsConfirmation bias is indeed a very human trait, and I'm far from immune to it!
The thing is, I've been following this thread for quite some time, a lurker mostly, and I recently sold a DAC that was over 10 years old and cost around 12K at the time. I believe I can achieve better results, and everyone I know who runs preamps and DACs off the grid has never looked back.
On paper, these UC-Pure MKiii PSUs offer an order of magnitude improvement over the likes of Paul Hynes or Sean Jacobs. So, I took the plunge, and I'm determined to be as meticulous as possible, seeking out all the minute details to ensure the best sound quality.
If anyone has any remorse or regrets and has suggestions for building the ultimate version of Ian's platform, please don't hesitate to drop me a line. Better learn from others mistakes than making them myself, I'll do plenty anyway!
The bottom line is: we do not have the required measuring equipment to have a real comparison and even if some separate components measure. I did not find any reference to any kind of measurements made on finished products with Ian's components and we will probably do not see any.
Ever thought that I might be older than you?? Instead of being obnoxious just tell me MY mistake or what I cannot seem to read correctly?
@Aiello You beat me to it There are plenty of measurements...
@BogdanS Assuming that none have instruments to measure or that DIY is a beginner's endeavor is somewhat pedantic and misses the whole point, in my humble opinion.
Everything in the commercial world is built with a price point in mind. Manufacturers allocate funds for research and development and aim for at least a 50% profit margin. Then, they package their products, invest in marketing, and ship them to distributors, who often double the price before sending them to retailers. Retailers themselves often take margins ranging from 50% to 100%. That's the nature of the game.
For me, DIY represents the opportunity to build with fewer compromises, and get real value not 1/8 of it. As every decision in audio is a trade-off in some form. I believe it better reflects my preferences when I design and make the choices myself. I consider myself fortunate to have a well-established system crafted over 40 years in this 'hobby.' Ultimately, it all comes down to what sounds best to our ears. You can't get more biased than that, but that's precisely what it's all about in the end.
There are plenty of measurements...@BogdanS Assuming that none have instruments to measure or that DIY is a beginner's endeavor is somewhat pedantic and misses the whole point, in my humble opinion.
Everything in the commercial world is built with a price point in mind. Manufacturers allocate funds for research and development and aim for at least a 50% profit margin. Then, they package their products, invest in marketing, and ship them to distributors, who often double the price before sending them to retailers. Retailers themselves often take margins ranging from 50% to 100%. That's the nature of the game.
For me, DIY represents the opportunity to build with fewer compromises, and get real value not 1/8 of it. As every decision in audio is a trade-off in some form. I believe it better reflects my preferences when I design and make the choices myself. I consider myself fortunate to have a well-established system crafted over 40 years in this 'hobby.' Ultimately, it all comes down to what sounds best to our ears. You can't get more biased than that, but that's precisely what it's all about in the end.
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