I was very curious about the sound of these speakers and I finally finished Asathor. I was surprised by the sound, very balanced, dry bass, voices without harshness. Very satisfied. One question. If I wanted a slightly airier sound (as if I wanted a little more brightness in the voices 🙂) ...is there any possibility?
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Nothing but pure nonsense.
There is.
You could try to reduce the 10 ohm in series with the 172 to 8,2 or 7,5 ohm.
Or add a small amount of "mid-range" by increasing the 6,8µF series capacitor to 7,5 or 8,2 µF.
Both options will give you a precieved impression of a more "airy" presentation.
To avoid going back and forth, I would first try the resistance option. Make a switch on the back for 10R, 9R1, 8R2 & 7R5.
That way, you could change option according to the music, you play 😉
Of course, you could do the same with capacitor values. Have a combination of both.
I would not be to hasty in adjusting. If you are not used to the sound from this sized speaker with strong directivity, it might sound a less "airy" than a traditional smaller speaker that is a less directionality.
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Thank you very much for the suggestions, Boydk , today I ordered the whole set of resistors and capacitors to try.
But I want to say that I think I could live with what I hear now, I've been listening to different genres of music all day. Very relaxing with a surprisingly nice bass.
Thank you very much, I'm delighted that you like my Asathor.
Boydk has already given you a few options for customizing it to your taste. Just try it out and if you like another value in the x-over more, everything is fine.
poleepkwa is also right. Speakers like the Asathor don't sound airy enough for many people at first because there aren't as many reflections in the high frequencies.
Once you get used to this, you may suddenly perceive speakers with a wider dispersion as somewhat diffuse in comparison.
Cheers
Boydk has already given you a few options for customizing it to your taste. Just try it out and if you like another value in the x-over more, everything is fine.
poleepkwa is also right. Speakers like the Asathor don't sound airy enough for many people at first because there aren't as many reflections in the high frequencies.
Once you get used to this, you may suddenly perceive speakers with a wider dispersion as somewhat diffuse in comparison.
Cheers
Second that.
One of my friends has been building speakers for more that 40 years.
Remember way back, when he presented a construction with 2 x 12" Kevlar, and a midrange and tweeter with inverted ceramic
membranes. Think the German company´s name was Thiel or Thiele.
At first, these to me sounded kind of lame, but after several hours, I had to admit, that absolutely nothing was missing.
Just a totally different way of doing the midrange- and treble presentation. After some time you had to admit,
that this was far more correct to listen to.
I went the other way with the Asathor´s. I found them a little bright (Peerles/Tymphany CD) and lowered the cap. value (very little)
and increased the series resistance instead. 99% happy customer now.
I know, this was on a budget, but still looking for a compression driver with a bit more easy presentation without
blowing my economy. Of course I´ll have to redo the crossover.
@Rese66 ........ If you have a suggestion, I´d love to hear it 😉
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The name is Thiel & Partner or Accuton. We have also had experience with them, but unfortunately they are very expensive.
Here is a picture from our meeting:
https://www.der-akustische-untergrund.de/dates/d-a-u-treffen/7-d-a-u-treffen-aug-18/
Of course, there are also compression drivers that you could use instead of the Tymphany or LaVoce. I recently did a project with the RCF CD350, which I also really liked.
In our group, we also designed the Albany with this driver - even with the same horn that is used in the Asathor:
https://www.donhighend.de/?page_id=9829
But of course Faital, B&C, Oberton etc. also have suitable candidates. 😉
Here is a picture from our meeting:
https://www.der-akustische-untergrund.de/dates/d-a-u-treffen/7-d-a-u-treffen-aug-18/
Of course, there are also compression drivers that you could use instead of the Tymphany or LaVoce. I recently did a project with the RCF CD350, which I also really liked.
In our group, we also designed the Albany with this driver - even with the same horn that is used in the Asathor:
https://www.donhighend.de/?page_id=9829
But of course Faital, B&C, Oberton etc. also have suitable candidates. 😉
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You have to note that the x-over circuit in the Albany has a significantly different structure. The woofer is wired with 24dB and LCR, with the Asathor it is only 12dB plus LCR. The x-over of the tweeters are similar, but in order to generate a correct sum, the polarity has to be reversed.
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https://www.stereophile.com/content/jbl-4367-studio-monitor-loudspeaker-page-2
Regardless of how great they must sound, how noticeable will likely be the beaming from the 15" woofer?
Regardless of how great they must sound, how noticeable will likely be the beaming from the 15" woofer?
Beaming (narrowing directivity) is not a bad thing. The question that I'd ask is whether the horn meets the 15" with the same directivity.
Of course the horn isn't round like the woofer, and it is baffled below but not above. To be sure it would have to be measured and probably averaged, and probably used with certain specific room treatments.
Of course the horn isn't round like the woofer, and it is baffled below but not above. To be sure it would have to be measured and probably averaged, and probably used with certain specific room treatments.
The beaming of such a large 15" woofer has always been a part of these large PA inspired cone/ horn two way's.
Sometimes it is allowed to knowingly make mistakes with a speaker, as part of the compromises you make in every construction.
These 15" + horn speakers can sound very good, usually crossed over around 800 Hz. Up to that frequency a carefully selected 15" can play quite well. Some of these constructions are legend. Some audiophile subtleties are sacrified for a dynamic performance the pure HIFI doctrine can simply not deliver. JBL does such combination too, just a little more expensive...
The Asathors designer sure can do a "correct" audiophile dome/ cone 2"+ 6"combination too.
Sometimes it is allowed to knowingly make mistakes with a speaker, as part of the compromises you make in every construction.
These 15" + horn speakers can sound very good, usually crossed over around 800 Hz. Up to that frequency a carefully selected 15" can play quite well. Some of these constructions are legend. Some audiophile subtleties are sacrified for a dynamic performance the pure HIFI doctrine can simply not deliver. JBL does such combination too, just a little more expensive...
The Asathors designer sure can do a "correct" audiophile dome/ cone 2"+ 6"combination too.
Clearly, Pierre was well aware of these and other tradeoffs by opting this two-way design:
The aberrations I referred to arise from the midwoofer being directional (beaming) below the crossover frequency, whereas the horn does the opposite (broad coverage). This is caused by the large difference in diaphragm size between the two drivers, not the filtering. The advantages of a large 15 inch midwoofer are lower distortion (as Troy verified), high efficiency, and dynamic range. This is a good tradeoff IMO and why I went with a 15 inch myself. The only way I know around the beaming issue is to add another midrange driver, like PMC and TAD recently do. This comes at extra cost and add a new bag of problems.
Sadly, though invited by Pierre to here them I can't make the trip from NY to Ottawa, and I know of no one closer to home who's built anything close to them, so I can't aurally evaluate this beaming for myself. But what intrigues me about Pierre's speakers is the claimed "You Are There" soundscape-certainly a major aspect of audio realism most of us are seeking. And that the throat adapters he designed makes his speakers disappear.
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I don't get how midrange and/or upper midbass beaming of a woofer in a two-way system is not a bad thing, at least to the extent that it detracts from sonic realism. But if it can be reduced by room treatments how is that possible? To the best of my knowledge Pierre doesn't use any room treatment. Please explain this corrective mechanism.
As my system is Windows based, can acoustic treatments followed by software like DIRAC Live help to reduce this beaming?
The horn narrows directivity. That is not bad.. is it? Why is it different to the woofer? Ok, so you want the woofer to begin to narrow at the cross, and then they match.
It is good if you don't need room treatments.
However, if the horn is not smooth then I would consider room treatments in places where you see the problems reflected.
Is brightness the same as airy sounding? If seeking the latter (as I would, though I don't know if Pierre's speakers can deliver same), you might try this, though it's likely to be expensive.
Unfortunately, the Fostex T96A, with less peaky response and diffraction problems-and much less expensive-was discontinued. But if you can find a pair check this out.