Well, after a month of settling back in, I can say I'm back in the same house as my old Ariston, and I'm still thinking my crazy project ideas.
I spent an afternoon with the RD11s on the kitchen table, and here's what I determined:
* the bearing seems to be in great shape, there is no play, oil does not seep up the shaft and leak out;
* the motor is noisy as I remembered, and possibly the motor shaft itself is not quite straight;
* the Grace 707 is showing some cosmetic signs of wear and tear but its bearings seem pretty good;
* I'm fairly sure the belt is due to be replaced (31 years + old) 🙂
I cleaned things up and stuck on a brand-new Massive Attack and boy it did sound good.
At this point, I'm left thinking that the weakest point is probably the motor. It seems that the most straightforward way of fixing this problem is to swap in an OriginLive motor kit, but the fancy kit is well on its way to $1000 these days.
tkwou had the alternative idea of watching for a 60hz Linn motor.
Any other suggestions?
I spent an afternoon with the RD11s on the kitchen table, and here's what I determined:
* the bearing seems to be in great shape, there is no play, oil does not seep up the shaft and leak out;
* the motor is noisy as I remembered, and possibly the motor shaft itself is not quite straight;
* the Grace 707 is showing some cosmetic signs of wear and tear but its bearings seem pretty good;
* I'm fairly sure the belt is due to be replaced (31 years + old) 🙂
I cleaned things up and stuck on a brand-new Massive Attack and boy it did sound good.
At this point, I'm left thinking that the weakest point is probably the motor. It seems that the most straightforward way of fixing this problem is to swap in an OriginLive motor kit, but the fancy kit is well on its way to $1000 these days.
tkwou had the alternative idea of watching for a 60hz Linn motor.
Any other suggestions?
Welcome back bozini, another option which slipped my mind is to re-chip a Valhalla board to run at 60Hz. Then you can run any standard Linn motor. This is a very simple change which I should know about because I already have one sitting in my spare parts bin. The one I have was rechipped to run at 67.5Hz so that I could run 45rpm on my LP-12. Now that I'm using a modified Axis supply I am no longer using it.
Hi Tk,
do you recall which crystal frequency you bought to convert the Valhalla?
I wonder if it was 8.847MHz? that would be a standard frequency.
That would mean that Linn used a divide by 2^17 to generate the required frequency.
do you recall which crystal frequency you bought to convert the Valhalla?
I wonder if it was 8.847MHz? that would be a standard frequency.
That would mean that Linn used a divide by 2^17 to generate the required frequency.
The standard Valhalla has a 3.2768 MHz crystal. A 3.93216MHz crystal gives you 60Hz output and 4.432MHz gives you 67.5Hz for 45 rpm. The output voltage fall as the frequency rises due to the optimization of the active filter for 50Hz signal so the series output resistor from the square wave output has to be reduced from 22K to 15K when using the 67.5Hz signal. I think you can get enough range adjustment with the standard resistor if you only need 60Hz.
Just wanted to direct any parties to this thread interested in the original post of this thread to a thread on Vinyl Engine:
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
One of the guys tried foam-core material like that from DragonPlate for a subchassis and really didn't like the sound - he was making (and makes) a Cetech copy from ali-honeycomb/carbon fibre sheet.
At some point in the next month, finances permitting, I'm going to experiment with some of these materials as I turn my PT Export into an Anniversary clone (I have an Anniversary to take apart and copy before selling it on - worth too much to keep when I can DIY and have fun experimenting into the bargain).
I'm going to buy a few sheets of different materials and see which works best for the subchassis and then fill in the plynth with something heavy and solid ala the Anni..
I probably won't get round to it for a while though but will post when I do.
Nat
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
One of the guys tried foam-core material like that from DragonPlate for a subchassis and really didn't like the sound - he was making (and makes) a Cetech copy from ali-honeycomb/carbon fibre sheet.
At some point in the next month, finances permitting, I'm going to experiment with some of these materials as I turn my PT Export into an Anniversary clone (I have an Anniversary to take apart and copy before selling it on - worth too much to keep when I can DIY and have fun experimenting into the bargain).
I'm going to buy a few sheets of different materials and see which works best for the subchassis and then fill in the plynth with something heavy and solid ala the Anni..
I probably won't get round to it for a while though but will post when I do.
Nat
nomex carbon is a lower conductor of vibration that aluminium carbon, due to the random nature of the fibres in the paper honeycomb used in nomex.
it's also a better sandwich material as the edge of the honeycomb bonds beter with the carbon due to having greater surface area and allowing the resin to move by capiliary action, which alloy honeycomb doesn't.
in this respect you get a better bond between nomex and carbon than with alloy (aerolam) and it gives it better shear strength by a wide margin,which translate into improved damping.
the only pig with both of them is mounting anything, it usally has to be surface glued or through bolted, if this doesn't suit then you can drill pilot holes into the cells of the honeycomb and fill them with resin, but it's messy and time consuming.
it's also a better sandwich material as the edge of the honeycomb bonds beter with the carbon due to having greater surface area and allowing the resin to move by capiliary action, which alloy honeycomb doesn't.
in this respect you get a better bond between nomex and carbon than with alloy (aerolam) and it gives it better shear strength by a wide margin,which translate into improved damping.
the only pig with both of them is mounting anything, it usally has to be surface glued or through bolted, if this doesn't suit then you can drill pilot holes into the cells of the honeycomb and fill them with resin, but it's messy and time consuming.
DIY a KEEL Clone
HarwoodSpark said he was trying to buil a DIY Keel...
I want to know has he realized it and how nice it sounds?
I have a 15 years old LP 12 with both Cirkus upgrade + Trampolin + Lingo.
When i bought on ebay an Ekos arm it went so expensive that i decided to resell the Lingo and built my own Armageddon PS. A wize upgrade!
The new Ekos that replaced the previous entry level arm Akito gave me also a huge improvement matched to the moving coil BenzMicro Glider phonocartridge...
But i'm not crazy to shell out the regular price of the Keel!
HarwoodSpark said he was trying to buil a DIY Keel...
I want to know has he realized it and how nice it sounds?
I have a 15 years old LP 12 with both Cirkus upgrade + Trampolin + Lingo.
When i bought on ebay an Ekos arm it went so expensive that i decided to resell the Lingo and built my own Armageddon PS. A wize upgrade!
The new Ekos that replaced the previous entry level arm Akito gave me also a huge improvement matched to the moving coil BenzMicro Glider phonocartridge...
But i'm not crazy to shell out the regular price of the Keel!
i've just added further mods to what was left of my p5.
i have replaced the rega plinth, POS, with a hardwood block chopping board, 50mm thick. this in itself wasa good improvement with allthe Rega beraring and arm parts remounted, more solid bass, and a reduction in the noise floor. there was also a huge improvement in tonality, removing a lot of the cooking Regas grey tone.
i mounted the motor to the plinth via a sheet of dragonplate carbon/ply/carbon. this was simply placed over the motor cut out and secured to the plinth with a very thin bead of sealant. because the sealant bead is so thin there is no lateral play at all so the motor is rigidly mounted with respect to the plinth, though there is a degree of vertical complience in there.
resulting the motor noise as picked up by the stylus on a static record with motor spinning and belt off is much reduced.
so this got me thinking about the arm mount. i had the RB700 screwed into the plinth, as per the P5 set up. i figured if i cut out a huge chunk of wood where the arm sits and thenn mount the arm to another carbon plate with a small sub-mount underneath the plate thenn i'd get a similar effect in reducing transmitted noise to the arm..
and oh boy did i ever.
i cut out a 10cm circle from the plinth, made a 12cm diameter dragonplate disc and mounted it to the plinth with a ring of sealant. the plate is supported across its circumference by the sealantand the arm screws through the plate and into a small hardwood block that only touches the underside of the dragonplate disc. theres no contact between arm and plinth, juts via the disc.
and it's a whole new ball game. i've gained greater dynamic, with more distance between the loudest and quietest sounds, this has resulted in more bass, and more delicacy at the other end of the scale. i've also gained a significant amount of space around the each voice and instrument.
i can only conclude that i've removed a fair bit of noice that was entering the arm and smearing the signal.
i reccomend it highly.
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=5141
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=4881
i have replaced the rega plinth, POS, with a hardwood block chopping board, 50mm thick. this in itself wasa good improvement with allthe Rega beraring and arm parts remounted, more solid bass, and a reduction in the noise floor. there was also a huge improvement in tonality, removing a lot of the cooking Regas grey tone.
i mounted the motor to the plinth via a sheet of dragonplate carbon/ply/carbon. this was simply placed over the motor cut out and secured to the plinth with a very thin bead of sealant. because the sealant bead is so thin there is no lateral play at all so the motor is rigidly mounted with respect to the plinth, though there is a degree of vertical complience in there.
resulting the motor noise as picked up by the stylus on a static record with motor spinning and belt off is much reduced.
so this got me thinking about the arm mount. i had the RB700 screwed into the plinth, as per the P5 set up. i figured if i cut out a huge chunk of wood where the arm sits and thenn mount the arm to another carbon plate with a small sub-mount underneath the plate thenn i'd get a similar effect in reducing transmitted noise to the arm..
and oh boy did i ever.
i cut out a 10cm circle from the plinth, made a 12cm diameter dragonplate disc and mounted it to the plinth with a ring of sealant. the plate is supported across its circumference by the sealantand the arm screws through the plate and into a small hardwood block that only touches the underside of the dragonplate disc. theres no contact between arm and plinth, juts via the disc.
and it's a whole new ball game. i've gained greater dynamic, with more distance between the loudest and quietest sounds, this has resulted in more bass, and more delicacy at the other end of the scale. i've also gained a significant amount of space around the each voice and instrument.
i can only conclude that i've removed a fair bit of noice that was entering the arm and smearing the signal.
i reccomend it highly.
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=5141
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=4881
looking for an RD 11 s platter
Hi Guy's,
I'm looking for an Ariston Rd11s platter, I've had my turntable for 27 years now, I bought it from an old friend of mine who worked for Ariston at the time.
I haven't been able to use the turntable since an ex girl friend thought it was a great idea to throw the platter away 11 years ago when we split up. I was delighted when I stumbled across this thread. Does anyone know if it's easy enough to have one made.
all the best
Ian
Hi Guy's,
I'm looking for an Ariston Rd11s platter, I've had my turntable for 27 years now, I bought it from an old friend of mine who worked for Ariston at the time.
I haven't been able to use the turntable since an ex girl friend thought it was a great idea to throw the platter away 11 years ago when we split up. I was delighted when I stumbled across this thread. Does anyone know if it's easy enough to have one made.
all the best
Ian
Re: DIY a KEEL Clone
In the meantime, I've received the CETECH subchassis from New Zealand...
It's a fantastic terrific upgrade for only 300€... I highly recommend it to everybody owning a Linn LP12 turntable!
The removal of the original subchassis is easy to do and the fine tuning of the suspension (3 springs) is not so hard to perform, thanx to a fully detailed booklet explaining the "how to D.I.Y"
You 'll get a huge improvement at a bargain price!
Just do it!
You may ask Steve Millward: he is very kind and trustworthy.
enjoy!🙂
bergui45 said:
In the meantime, I've received the CETECH subchassis from New Zealand...
It's a fantastic terrific upgrade for only 300€... I highly recommend it to everybody owning a Linn LP12 turntable!
The removal of the original subchassis is easy to do and the fine tuning of the suspension (3 springs) is not so hard to perform, thanx to a fully detailed booklet explaining the "how to D.I.Y"
You 'll get a huge improvement at a bargain price!
Just do it!
You may ask Steve Millward: he is very kind and trustworthy.
enjoy!🙂
Hi all. I haven't posted for a while due to other commitments. About my diy Keel. I bought the aluminium plate and its all marked and ready to be cut to shape. Because I don't have access to the right sort of machinery I've had to go in two parts as the arm board is on a higher level than the subchassis. When the two plates are cut and fixed together they then need milling out in various places to replicate Linn's Keel and reduce weight. I will get round to this soon.
I hope I've managed to put a pic here! I'm not very good at this sort of thing. Si.
I hope I've managed to put a pic here! I'm not very good at this sort of thing. Si.
Harwoodspark
Are you still out there Harwoodspark.You've not posted any progress on your aluminium subchassis,and i am keen to see how it went.
I too am in the process of making an aluminium subchassis.Mine is slightly different to yours in that mine is for an RD11s which has a different armboard layout.Like you,it was my intention to mill my 8mm thick plate out in a pattern similiar to the Keel in order to lighten it and to break up reasonance.
Alas,what i found was that when you mill out on one side, the aluminium is relieved, and thus begins to bow.The Keel avoids this problem by being 'cast' in its shape.
Plan B
This is to drill out large holes (32mm) to lighten the plate,but what i want to do is just lighten it at the tonearm side to the point that it becomes more balanced about the main bearing, as per your earlier discussion with Sreten.I have two plates ready to use,one for experimentation and the other for final use.
As the aluminium stands at the moment with the spring holes machined out,the arm board cutout milled out and the hole for the main bearing, the aluminium is almost the same weight as the original steel sub chassis. I changed the shape to eliminate excess metal when i had it cut out.
The CoG naturally is weighted towards the armboard end at the moment.I have calculated the weight difference and it is approximately 250gms heavier at this end.If i add the weight of my Rega RB300 tonearm(when i get it back from Audioorigami) i intend to see if i can lighten the aluminium subchassis enough that the subchassis has its CoG at the main bearing.
If i dont have enough excess material to enable me to achieve this then i will be satisfied with a much closer balanced subchassis.
I would be very interested to hear how your subchassis progressed (or didnt... for whatever reason).
This has been a very interesting thread, and like you i've always thought that a subchassis more equally balanced would yield better results.
Are you still out there Harwoodspark.You've not posted any progress on your aluminium subchassis,and i am keen to see how it went.
I too am in the process of making an aluminium subchassis.Mine is slightly different to yours in that mine is for an RD11s which has a different armboard layout.Like you,it was my intention to mill my 8mm thick plate out in a pattern similiar to the Keel in order to lighten it and to break up reasonance.
Alas,what i found was that when you mill out on one side, the aluminium is relieved, and thus begins to bow.The Keel avoids this problem by being 'cast' in its shape.
Plan B
This is to drill out large holes (32mm) to lighten the plate,but what i want to do is just lighten it at the tonearm side to the point that it becomes more balanced about the main bearing, as per your earlier discussion with Sreten.I have two plates ready to use,one for experimentation and the other for final use.
As the aluminium stands at the moment with the spring holes machined out,the arm board cutout milled out and the hole for the main bearing, the aluminium is almost the same weight as the original steel sub chassis. I changed the shape to eliminate excess metal when i had it cut out.
The CoG naturally is weighted towards the armboard end at the moment.I have calculated the weight difference and it is approximately 250gms heavier at this end.If i add the weight of my Rega RB300 tonearm(when i get it back from Audioorigami) i intend to see if i can lighten the aluminium subchassis enough that the subchassis has its CoG at the main bearing.
If i dont have enough excess material to enable me to achieve this then i will be satisfied with a much closer balanced subchassis.
I would be very interested to hear how your subchassis progressed (or didnt... for whatever reason).
This has been a very interesting thread, and like you i've always thought that a subchassis more equally balanced would yield better results.
Well i guess harwoodspark is busy.
I have my arm back now and it weighs about 440gms.I wasnt able to lighten up my aluminium subchassis enough to compensate fully for the weight however i am pleased that i have achieved a better balanced subchassis than with the original steel one. The new subchassis, when fitted, doesnt require me to wind up the springs any where near as much to get the platter balanced and levelled, and the bounce is now really so much more piston like and so much easier to get right.
I have my arm back now and it weighs about 440gms.I wasnt able to lighten up my aluminium subchassis enough to compensate fully for the weight however i am pleased that i have achieved a better balanced subchassis than with the original steel one. The new subchassis, when fitted, doesnt require me to wind up the springs any where near as much to get the platter balanced and levelled, and the bounce is now really so much more piston like and so much easier to get right.
Hi,
I haven't followed the full thread, but am intrigued by the modifications suggested. I've owned a RD80 from new, which one dealer told me to scrap and replace with a Linn Sondek. Instead I replaced the springs, arm and belt for Linn models and got a worthwhile improvement in what feels like an underspec turntable by comparison.
I only wanted to say that one of the best improvements I ever made was ditching the tin tray bottom bit and suspending the whole turntable by its plinth from a 22kg four legged marine steel frame a mate made for me.
I'm not into mass damping or anything like that, its just that removing that tin tray under the deck and giving the cables out of the arm some freedom, opened up the sound nicely. It's not domestically acceptable or even safe, but I guess no one really cares about that!
It also worked really well without the tin tray and balanced on a load of old cassette cases on top of a wood stove!!
I haven't followed the full thread, but am intrigued by the modifications suggested. I've owned a RD80 from new, which one dealer told me to scrap and replace with a Linn Sondek. Instead I replaced the springs, arm and belt for Linn models and got a worthwhile improvement in what feels like an underspec turntable by comparison.
I only wanted to say that one of the best improvements I ever made was ditching the tin tray bottom bit and suspending the whole turntable by its plinth from a 22kg four legged marine steel frame a mate made for me.
I'm not into mass damping or anything like that, its just that removing that tin tray under the deck and giving the cables out of the arm some freedom, opened up the sound nicely. It's not domestically acceptable or even safe, but I guess no one really cares about that!
It also worked really well without the tin tray and balanced on a load of old cassette cases on top of a wood stove!!
Oops, I think some idiot took that massive steel frame to the recycling centre when he emigrated to the snowy but pretty regions of northern England.
Looks like I owe sonokeling a new support for his Ariston.
Looks like I owe sonokeling a new support for his Ariston.
Ha, ha, very funny! It was probably the best home for an upside down coffee table from the thunderdome. Did the speaker stands survive? Guess not! We're all into the sonics of wood these days, anyway! I thought the cassette boxes were interesting though - seems like we killed this thread with our comments!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.