High end soundbars/wireless speakers have impressive DSP features. Some of them are marketed as full fledged Hi-Fi devices, such as most B&O devices. To my experience, regular people see them as the best available audio system option on the market today, rather than a equally priced traditional 2-channel system. The ability to somewhat compensate a bad placement in the room, and generate spatial sound from a single source is a big advantage over conventional 2 channel systems. The setup is immediate and a modern phone-centric user interface with easy streaming options add the required and expected convenience. To my ears, the end result is a giant leap forward compared to 10 years old designs such as the bulk of low-cost and midrange soundbars. Still a long way out from a maybe less expensive carefully tuned traditional 2-channel setup, but good enough for most commercial music. When budget is enough for one of these solutions, I no longer recommend a traditional audio system, unless there is a genuine Hi-Fi interest and a willingness to spend time and effort for the fine-tuning.
The day I see a soundbar at the club/concert and enjoy it I might consider it at home, until then I stick with PA, "modern hifi" (soundbars, sonos, bose etc) just don't give me the high sensitive live super dynamic experience I need to get the thrills. I think it was one of the guys at funktion1 that said that if you need to push 25% (1/100th watt ie 10 watt of a 1000 watt system) you're about to lose details and experience dynamic compression and you need a bigger system. Not sure how true it is but it makes sense. I dont see any soundbar being able to play decent levels at 1-2 watt even less put 200 watt amps in there.
Now the important question: is she happy with it? I bet she is and that is good whatever "we" may think of perceived quality. It occurred to me that many setups with smart stuff sounds mediocre at best but the users are very enthusiastic . Letting them hear your tuned quality setup makes them frown 🙂 Loudspeakers on stands definitely is a bridge too far for most.
That sums it up pretty well, painful as it is.
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But isn't that exactly what this whole forum is about? "genuine Hi-Fi interest and a willingness to spend time and effort for the fine-tuning." And even more so from a DIY point of view.
So why we are spending any time even discussing soundbars?
They are of very little interest to the audience here. Nor are there very many DIY soundbar designs. That's been my point. There are several HT forums where the discussion of soundbars really fits much better.
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Yeah, you're right. She is happy with it and that's the important thing. It has fulfilled the purpose it was bought for.
But I simply can't listen to it. Or anything else with that level of distortion.
A while back I bought a new tv. It turned out that the sound was so bad that it blurred speech. At the other side of the room there is a true high end system. But putting the tv right there was no option. So how to improve sound? I looked in a store but the soundbars had no weight, had very very small speaker units. So I made a pair of small 2 way boxes with premium units and good cross over parts and connected them with a marantz nr1200. While a sounbar can be much cheaper then the estimated 1100 euro I spend, I think few soundbars even at double of the price, can even come close to the performance of this setup. Apart from sound quality all the parts squeezed in a tiny soundbar might result in questionable longevity. It is all about making things small, compact and smooth looking. For many people this is what hifi gear is about. It probably is their future but not mine.
No idea, I don't even know what a soundbar is. I do know that the vinyl pressing plant in my hometown is working shifts and hiring new people to get all the records manufactured in time.
You must live on an island far away where time stood still 😀
If there are no smart phones there please tell me where I can board.
If there are no smart phones there please tell me where I can board.
Having heard several different types and manufacturers, Sony's expensive stuff is sort of mind-boggling how good the quasi-multi-channel effect is with respect to surround sound. (..basically what you and Mayhem were stating.)
Still, not one "clears" the dynamic's of a good Theater (or Home Theater), and ALL have that "boomy" indistinct sound from 90 to almost 300 Hz. There is just something about using a small driver (even multiples) well below 300 Hz and then having a a "subwoofer" that has a low-pass above 100 Hz that doesn't sound correct (..and I'm quite sure there is ton of harmonic distortion on the low end of those small drivers).
^That is a basic sound quality of commercial soundbars (that I have no problem generalizing). (..though I'm sure that there are probably a few very expensive one's out there that use much larger drivers that are a very rare exception.)
I'll put up with it for TV (for convenience and the fact that it is a LOT better than the TV has on its own), but for HT "immersion" neither a "small" (70-80") TV nor a typical commercial soundbar is going to even come close (visually and audibly).
The same is true for critical music listening - it just sounds reproduced.
The question with all these observations is, “Is this inherent in the format or is it part of typical design and construction?” (Which could be altered.)
I’ve heard a lot of bad soundbars with hollow plastic cabinets full of resonances. I’ve heard them with mediocre drivers and inadequate internal volume, which severely limit output. But if the question was “do soundbars have potential for a great audio experience that music lovers would enjoy?” then I know from my own experience, and prototypes I have developed, that the answer is yes.
Of course, you would have to listen with an open mind.
I’ve heard a lot of bad soundbars with hollow plastic cabinets full of resonances. I’ve heard them with mediocre drivers and inadequate internal volume, which severely limit output. But if the question was “do soundbars have potential for a great audio experience that music lovers would enjoy?” then I know from my own experience, and prototypes I have developed, that the answer is yes.
Of course, you would have to listen with an open mind.
Well I find the topic interesting, even if I am not in the market for a sound bar. That is why I am spending my time reading this discussion. Why are you spending your time reading this thread, if you consider it a waste of time?
I found SpeakerDave's steered-array soundbar description to be quite interesting. I did not know that such a system existed.
j.
Sure, they have the potential.
But because of the market's desire for small and unobtrusive (along with being decorator and installer friendly) while also being mass produced -
with and open mind but tempered by realistic expectations based on real world examples,
I don't think it's a potential that will be realized any time soon (if ever with similar technology), at least not at the mass-market level.
But because of the market's desire for small and unobtrusive (along with being decorator and installer friendly) while also being mass produced -
with and open mind but tempered by realistic expectations based on real world examples,
I don't think it's a potential that will be realized any time soon (if ever with similar technology), at least not at the mass-market level.
So you have something with the potential for producing great sound, but the commercial models are not good enough. That sounds like a good reason to design and build your own (x).
(x): Assuming that's feasible, which I don't know because I don't know what a soundbar is anyway.
^That's what I did (sort of, in that I use an HT Receiver to power and equalize it where commercial soundbars are powered by their own amp and equalized by their own DSP).
For me it came down to just how do you do Home Theater with realistic (large commerical theater) sound that fits under a large screen?
Answer: DIY integrated 3-channel (left/right/center) sound bar. (..as shown with my previous link to my HT's pictures.)
Also if it's not obvious, Linus is holding/reviewing a commercial soundbar in his video that I posted - virtually all look like it (even if most are smaller and less sophisticated).
For me it came down to just how do you do Home Theater with realistic (large commerical theater) sound that fits under a large screen?
Answer: DIY integrated 3-channel (left/right/center) sound bar. (..as shown with my previous link to my HT's pictures.)
Also if it's not obvious, Linus is holding/reviewing a commercial soundbar in his video that I posted - virtually all look like it (even if most are smaller and less sophisticated).
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What I have been trying to do, in several different posts, is to point out to the OP that if he is interested in soundbars there are much better forums for that information than this one, which is focused on DIY audio. Specifically, some of the HT forums would be better, since soundbars are really intended for HT applications rather than critical music listening.
I'll need to look these up.
To me, the problem with soundbars isn't a lack of dynamics, like many say. I think that with sufficient power and a sturdy enclosure, you can make a dynamic sound bar.
To me, the issue was always that the drivers need to be directional.
And then it becomes a catch-22:
1) You can use multiple drivers to achieve a specific directivity but that will only work on the horizontal axis.
2) In order to get vertical directivity, you'd need a soundbar that's tall, and that just looks weird.
One could probably hide an array in something like the attached. But you could probably hide a speaker too, and a set of three conventional speakers might be superior.
A lot would depend on how narrow you want the directivity to be.
I've been doing about half of my listening through a three channel system with an Dolby Prologic II upmixer and I'm pretty happy with it. My stereo set up sounds better, but is ugly as hell (it's in my office.)
Attachments
Not sure if this is the same array, but it might be:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/9b/04/af/d6ca1796443675/WO2022072589A1.pdf
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/9b/04/af/d6ca1796443675/WO2022072589A1.pdf