Doubt it but I guess he uses directional money ... from his pocket towards Inspector´s.
There must be a reason Inspector mentioned many times that he automatically approved any job done by "####"
There must be a reason Inspector mentioned many times that he automatically approved any job done by "####"
Jan,
There are “Cultural” differences between countries. In some places courtesy payments are used, elsewhere bribes are illegal.
JN lives near a city where I have never won a bid. When I have been lowest priced and qualified bidder, the projects were cancelled and rebid without notifying me.
But I do expect in JN’s case it was legitimate appreciation for the visible work.
In my local case there was a father son team who sold their building inspection services to a number of local towns. I attached a three wall shed to my shop building to hold the dust collector. (Outside the building with a blowout door!) My reading of the state code said no building permit was required. (Lots of rural folks in the state and requiring building permits for chicken coops would not fly!)
These folks insisted on a building permit. So I had my draftsman do a plan and submitted it. They rejected it and insisted on a stamped architect’s drawing. I had my licensed structural engineer review and stamp the drawing. They did not accept that!
Their onsite unlicensed inspector also did not like the mortise and tenon construction. He thought that was unreliable!
Of course they didn’t just tick me off, so when their town contract was up, it was not renewed. The next inspector did not seem to think I needed a permit and that the shed was fine.
Interestingly the father son team are no longer in the building inspection business. My nose says lawyers may have been involved as some local work I saw did not meet my understanding of the electrical code! Other work dumped the roof water runoff onto the sidewalk in front of an approved building. Who knew this would ice over the sidewalk in winter? 🙁
Perhaps they though the gutters were directional and would put the water back in the sky! (Just to stay on topic.)
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Well, I READ it.
NO WAY an inspector approves anything without inspecting it. period.
Not even if Electrician was God himself.
So we start with a GROSS breach of his duties, that alone leads to suspicion.
Add to that:
Doubly so an installation in the basement.
Does he have X Ray eyes?
Hint: even IF the Nobel prize of Electricians did that installation, it STILL needs to be checked, if anything because there may be some error or mistake.
He is signing that approval, it is an equivalent of a sworn statement, and carries same weight and responsibility, he will ruin his own life if anything happens.
On the other hand, why is #### doing relatively humble Electrical installation work while he is SO intelligent and knowledgeable, well above an Inspector qualifications level?
Notice I am not talking practical experience here, a 50 year career Electrician may very well know way more than an Inspector at the nuts and volts level, why not?, but on a Code interpretation level, it´s very doubtful, to put it mildly.
Different training and experience.
That inspector is completely unqualified for his job.
Lots of things do not add up, and sorry for opening Pandora´s box.
On the contrary, JN´s incredulous questions show he was as amazed as me, for obvious reasons.
Gosh, this is getting repetitive.
NO WAY an inspector approves anything without inspecting it. period.
Not even if Electrician was God himself.
So we start with a GROSS breach of his duties, that alone leads to suspicion.
Add to that:
REALLY?????
Doubly so an installation in the basement.
Does he have X Ray eyes?
The Inspector knows less than an electrician? ... I wonder how he got his job in the first place.
Hint: even IF the Nobel prize of Electricians did that installation, it STILL needs to be checked, if anything because there may be some error or mistake.
He is signing that approval, it is an equivalent of a sworn statement, and carries same weight and responsibility, he will ruin his own life if anything happens.
On the other hand, why is #### doing relatively humble Electrical installation work while he is SO intelligent and knowledgeable, well above an Inspector qualifications level?
Notice I am not talking practical experience here, a 50 year career Electrician may very well know way more than an Inspector at the nuts and volts level, why not?, but on a Code interpretation level, it´s very doubtful, to put it mildly.
Different training and experience.
Same as above.
That inspector is completely unqualified for his job.
Same thing.
Lots of things do not add up, and sorry for opening Pandora´s box.
On the contrary, JN´s incredulous questions show he was as amazed as me, for obvious reasons.
Gosh, this is getting repetitive.
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Nice examples of 'if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, try to baffle them with BS'.
The question was why the inspector accepted the work without actually inspecting it. He stated it was because 'xxx' had never been caught with a mistake and could even give him, the inspector, a lesson. That is in the post.
Anything else hinting on dishonesty is a figment of a (untrusty) mind.
I go play outside now.
Jan
The question was why the inspector accepted the work without actually inspecting it. He stated it was because 'xxx' had never been caught with a mistake and could even give him, the inspector, a lesson. That is in the post.
Anything else hinting on dishonesty is a figment of a (untrusty) mind.
I go play outside now.
Jan
Its more common than one might think (having been in the trades my entire working life) one gets to know the local inspectors and they get to know the contractors work ethics……..ive seen many times (not just one locale) where work was passed and never looked at, no bribes needed…….more a professional courtesy.
Having inspected the work myself, the level of quality was excellent. Far above anything I had ever seen.
Since it was an upgrade from 60 to 200, the meter pan and riser to the pole feed were new, and the quality of that work was visible from the street.
Even the load panel had every breaker location clearly written as to what it controlled.. I never saw that before.
As code updates every 3 years, and most states are at least two years behind in adoption, it is very easy for the electrician to be years ahead of the inspector.
I used 2008 for my work, while the code of record was 2005. I suspect NEC updates never violate previous code, but made sure while I was doing it.
ps.. it was also the first install I had seen where they paid attention to the minimum bend radius requirements in code, typically violated at the service entrance and major appliance feeds.
John
Since it was an upgrade from 60 to 200, the meter pan and riser to the pole feed were new, and the quality of that work was visible from the street.
Even the load panel had every breaker location clearly written as to what it controlled.. I never saw that before.
As code updates every 3 years, and most states are at least two years behind in adoption, it is very easy for the electrician to be years ahead of the inspector.
I used 2008 for my work, while the code of record was 2005. I suspect NEC updates never violate previous code, but made sure while I was doing it.
ps.. it was also the first install I had seen where they paid attention to the minimum bend radius requirements in code, typically violated at the service entrance and major appliance feeds.
John
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Then there was the electrical inspector who had me change the ten gauge power wiring inside my racks to the thinner twelve gauge!
That was at the urging of the electrician connecting my racks to the power feeds.
Both thought they knew the code. Neither knew the limit on conduit capacity was based on heat load. Also the electrical code does not apply inside appliances.
JN,
The only downward change I have seen is when they recognized that loudspeakers don’t draw continuous power and the conductors can be based on less voltage and current than the maximum power would require.
That was at the urging of the electrician connecting my racks to the power feeds.
Both thought they knew the code. Neither knew the limit on conduit capacity was based on heat load. Also the electrical code does not apply inside appliances.
JN,
The only downward change I have seen is when they recognized that loudspeakers don’t draw continuous power and the conductors can be based on less voltage and current than the maximum power would require.
Probably wanted to use all yellow wire nuts instead of the more expensive red ones. More effort to twist, wont fit directly under the screws on an outlet/switch. And won’t even go into one of those 39 cent back wire (no screw) types. Waaaahhh, waaahhh, waaahhh.
I had to run a 10 instead of a 12 out to the horse barn because the run was too long for a 12. But I knew that going into it. And since the receptacles are all GFCI, they come with leads instead of trying to muscle a #10 under the screws of a side wire outlet.
I had to run a 10 instead of a 12 out to the horse barn because the run was too long for a 12. But I knew that going into it. And since the receptacles are all GFCI, they come with leads instead of trying to muscle a #10 under the screws of a side wire outlet.
If you were wiring duplex outlets, are they approved for #10? I could see an inspector balking at that.
I can see old code where you could use the "under engineering supervision" clause of 310.15(C) in 2008, but that would probably require a PE sign off on it so the inspector feels covered. It would probably not be possible to convince an inspector to approve based on calculations where dielectric loss, ac resistance due to skinning and proximity effect, and effective thermal resistance are guesses. Having code update for actual use is far easier in the long run.
For one place, I actually had to plow through Neher/McGath and an excel spreadsheet to calculate (DC) ampacities that a 115C or 125C insulation would provide in tray and in conduit. It was to show that yes, higher temp insulation would allow smaller guage, but that it would also violate terminal temp ratings. Also, it would not allow a mix of insulation types, as 60C or 90C conductors would not be allowed in the same tray as conductors running current at the 125C ampacity. I also explained the headache they would cause with the dissipation causing changes to the timing fibers and beam sensor coax due to both thermal expansion and permittivity vs temperature changes. The magnet guys have no understanding of the 60 pSec stability that the rf and beam physicists need for good operation, and putting heat sources in proximity to those cables (even below in a seperate tray) is nothing but trouble.
Not to mention, they had 3 AHJ's, and none of them had any experience with the scientific side wiring of these machines, and all three would come out with differing opinions..a mess.
They eventually did the right thing and spec'd exane that was listed TC. It's 125C insulation, but rated in tray only for 90C ampacities.
John
edit: side note, a year later I had the same inspector come and inspect my wiring for our master bath prior to my hanging sheetrock.
GFI....check
#12awg...check
staples spaced properly...check
through holes at studs proper..check
boxes and wiring proper..check.
He was quite thorough, and same at final.
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JN,
Everything was rated and wired properly. Both guys objected to conduit fill more than 40%. They didn’t understand that is based on temperature rise. The though it had to do with pulling ability.
The correction was to downsize only the conductors in the first piece of conduit.
Everything was rated and wired properly. Both guys objected to conduit fill more than 40%. They didn’t understand that is based on temperature rise. The though it had to do with pulling ability.
The correction was to downsize only the conductors in the first piece of conduit.
Talking of power feeds there was a TV documentary about the new underground lines just opening (late) in London. At one of them power feed was about the last thing to go in. 25kV supply from the surface down about 100ft. Unfortunately I can't find the video online at the moment, but they had to put the main power feed in after most of the rest of the new station was built. CAD package said they could bend the feeder through everything else and get it down to the switch gear, but the sparkies really earned their money that day.
With respect to Ed, I certainly would have to agree with you.
Had you said, John you need to GET a life... well, that would be far more accurate...
John
Ed,
I am from the government. First, I am here to help, that is the role of government..yes??
Second, I already know what your project is..that is why your post ended with ""....."" Ve have Vays,,
(Said by the guy who IT is going to execute for online mischief).....sigh.
Thank goodness that despite gluten free, there is Tito's.
john
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