If I were you, I would prefer do the silicone treatment first, just to maintain the sound quality of the Divas.Panel replacement need tuning, and if not done properly can sound dull. Added that Divas are pretty hard to find on the market nowadays, people dont want to sell em. Panel replacement would have been my last resort, even if I would have to remanufacture most of the timber bracing, which would have become contaminated with silicone oil preventing good adhesion of the foam. Foam I used is Foam Insulation Tape Adhesive, which I sliced to dimension, its weather proof and very durable (not like the original mineral one) here's a link to what its like - https://www.amazon.com/Insulation-Weatherstrip-Waterproof-Conditioning-Stripping/dp/B07K2VD63J
Slvbonn
To recap, my Divas have damaged bass foils and you cant buy replacements unless your a dealer/installer for them , so I am going to make the foils and DIY everything else, tuning etc.
I am up to the challenge/ learning curve situation and understand the complexity involved.
If I fail then another road is taken to the same destination..,
Thats what makes it enjoyable 🍷
Regards
David
To recap, my Divas have damaged bass foils and you cant buy replacements unless your a dealer/installer for them , so I am going to make the foils and DIY everything else, tuning etc.
I am up to the challenge/ learning curve situation and understand the complexity involved.
If I fail then another road is taken to the same destination..,
Thats what makes it enjoyable 🍷
Regards
David
I think you can buy Apogee Foils from Patrick in Germany (sorry, I will have to dig to find more info). I bough a set of Scintilla bass foils from him about 5 years ago - still sitting in a box. Rebuilding the Scinnies is my retirement project...although I am slowly getting less and less interested in doing them...
You can find him here, http://www.dis-elektrostaten.de/cms/142-2/
He is not authorized by Apogee/Graz.
If I remember well, he used to work for Graz...then for few reasons they got separated.
AVWERK.. nice move .... surely you can buy replacement foils instead of having to make em yourself ...and there are several videos on youtube on Apogee bass and mid tweeter installation ... as per your foam mount on the timber rails picture, from my point of view (I may be wrong), I think that the 5 deg. slope you provided, leaves a too big gap inbetween, making the foam useless, let's not forget that the foam edge is to dampen the point of contact of the bass foil to the timber preventing any buzz and any other annoying vibrating sound.. perhaps not providing any slope at all will do a better job.
The foam pressure can be adjusted to your desire by varying the cut depth and how much you want to apply. It is thicker and more buoyant than the stock per side Dim. .030”
They were compressing it nearly flat in comparison.
The way Apogee did it had no transition and you know the history of the issue.
Some people placed a strip pressed against the foam that simulates the same concept and it worked out also.
Flexing of the diaphragm against the foam should transition away IMO and maybe last longer in the end , you can choose what ever works for you.
Regards
David
They were compressing it nearly flat in comparison.
The way Apogee did it had no transition and you know the history of the issue.
Some people placed a strip pressed against the foam that simulates the same concept and it worked out also.
Flexing of the diaphragm against the foam should transition away IMO and maybe last longer in the end , you can choose what ever works for you.
Regards
David
That would not be the case, Apogee Acoustics under myself or previous owners have never had affiliation or association with Patrick or his brands, although I have seen that mentioned in error before - in here I believe...
Sincerely - Graz
If I may...after looking at Patrick's bass panels, it is obvious that he has not benefited from any alleged association with Graz or the old Apogee.
The quality is simply not comparable.
Now let's get back on topic...the foam. I'm sure we can find out there a foam that is GOOD ENOUGH. If we are willing to terminate the panel with old foam/silicone oil, surely we can use a basic foam that meets basic requirements: longevity and damping.
The quality is simply not comparable.
Now let's get back on topic...the foam. I'm sure we can find out there a foam that is GOOD ENOUGH. If we are willing to terminate the panel with old foam/silicone oil, surely we can use a basic foam that meets basic requirements: longevity and damping.
Hello Graz, thanks to make things clear... as you say it was in here dated back 19th October 2014, i.e. 5 yrs earlier, that I read this article, and just took it for granted.
Nobody's trying to reinvent the wheel. Obviously a new foam replacement is the preferred solution, but you can't do that without tearing the speaker completely apart. (I thought that concept was clear to everyone.)
The premise of this thread is a stop-gap solution to make the speakers perform much better WITHOUT having to resort to the high cost/complication of a rebuild job.
Dave.
Sorry, I was not clear. I am not suggesting anything other than a fix, and not a rebuild.
If the old foam has deteriorated to the point of being mostly gone, then we are relying on silicone/oil filling that gap and becoming the main dampening product against the panel.
I'd prefer to find a suitable foam, press it in the gap and then apply the silicone/oil. Or, perhaps apply some glue in the gap and then push in the foam. The foam would then have something to grab onto at the bottom of the gap, stay in place, and still be the damper for the panel.
Of course, that only works for the front. to prevent the panel being pushed too far back and creating a buzz from the rear side, perhaps it's best to apply the silicone/oil in teh rear first and then apply the new foam technique to the front. But then we may have the rear having the silicone/oil being a damper.
Look, for all I know, people who have tried this and found it working fine may be satisfied and not be concerned with the choice of damper being an issue. I may very well feel the same when I do this. I would just want to pursue the possibly more correct course of action.
If the old foam has deteriorated to the point of being mostly gone, then we are relying on silicone/oil filling that gap and becoming the main dampening product against the panel.
I'd prefer to find a suitable foam, press it in the gap and then apply the silicone/oil. Or, perhaps apply some glue in the gap and then push in the foam. The foam would then have something to grab onto at the bottom of the gap, stay in place, and still be the damper for the panel.
Of course, that only works for the front. to prevent the panel being pushed too far back and creating a buzz from the rear side, perhaps it's best to apply the silicone/oil in teh rear first and then apply the new foam technique to the front. But then we may have the rear having the silicone/oil being a damper.
Look, for all I know, people who have tried this and found it working fine may be satisfied and not be concerned with the choice of damper being an issue. I may very well feel the same when I do this. I would just want to pursue the possibly more correct course of action.
The speakers you're talking about (with foam mostly gone) are probably beyond help....for this particular technique.
At some point, it doesn't become sensible to attempt a repair of this sort. The decision becomes quite clear then. Set the speakers aside or commit some big bucks and have them repaired via the Graz repair model. (It seems like you've discounted other suppliers/rebuilders as lower quality.)
Dave.
At some point, it doesn't become sensible to attempt a repair of this sort. The decision becomes quite clear then. Set the speakers aside or commit some big bucks and have them repaired via the Graz repair model. (It seems like you've discounted other suppliers/rebuilders as lower quality.)
Dave.
I think my idea above is certainly feasible for those beyond help, at least on the front. If only we had removable backs!
I only know of one supplier besides Graz and Bob D., Patrick. I do think his product is inadequate and definitely NOT a bargain compared to the "real" offerings. But, his panels are available for purchase which is a big positive.
I do not plan to invest in a proper rebuild as I have other speaker options. If I can be confident that a rebuild can provide me with a speaker not requiring attention for 10-15 years, then perhaps I may reconsider.
I only know of one supplier besides Graz and Bob D., Patrick. I do think his product is inadequate and definitely NOT a bargain compared to the "real" offerings. But, his panels are available for purchase which is a big positive.
I do not plan to invest in a proper rebuild as I have other speaker options. If I can be confident that a rebuild can provide me with a speaker not requiring attention for 10-15 years, then perhaps I may reconsider.
Yeah, that is the crux of the situation.
But even with the best-case scenario for the foam treatment, 10-15 years seems quite optimistic. However, only in 10-15 years would we know definitively.
At this point, there's a considerable nostalgic appeal to the Apogee speakers. How much you weight that aspect of ownership will probably become a determining factor in any possible restoration path.
I suspect the customer base has largely shifted to those for which sufficient disposable income is not an issue. I foresaw this many years ago.
That said, there are plenty of other good speakers out there that are still being produced and can be repaired if broken. The Apogee's themselves were a mature design thirty years ago. Graz has brought some superior fabrication techniques to the table, but the basic concept of the speakers and all the trade-offs involved are unchanged.
Dave.
