That right. One houses the ASP (analogue signal processor), and the other two contain 4 amps each.philpoole said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think the best thread on the subject is here: http://orion.quicksytes.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=266
V
V
Vikash,
Very interesting reading.
Thanks for the link.
I take it the ASP is part of the Orion design? Do you get it in kit form, or just PCBs for it, or do you have to build it from scratch?
Cheers,
Phil
Very interesting reading.
Thanks for the link.
I take it the ASP is part of the Orion design? Do you get it in kit form, or just PCBs for it, or do you have to build it from scratch?
Cheers,
Phil
SimontY said:
I feel I ought to mention that there is absolutely nothing that can be said objectively in listening to systems that were playing in that environment on Saturday. For one, Chris's Jordans were coupling immensely well with the corner loading while I have never heard the vofos(tqwp) sounding so wayward in any environment. Comparisons seem a bit lame because you would likely never get either system sounding like it did in a normal room environment. At best I feel it gives an indication of potential.
What I feel was acheived by the vofos was the ab comparison between the SE EL34 amp and the F2, which showed a much better matching with the F2, as pointed out by Hugo. The El34 tended to be sibilant, a trait which it never shows when coupled with my ariel 6s.
Indeed the F2 sounded very nice with your Vofos the little I got to hear of it. Shame you couldn't have hung around 'till Sunday when we could have moved it into the lounge for a proper demo.
Richie, is there a thread on your sub?
Richie, is there a thread on your sub?
There is no thread on my sub, but a few people have asked about it now so I'll see about getting something together!
vitalstates said:
You're very defensive over your speakers. And so would I be.
If only we could've heard them in the entrance foyer, as that was the one place I heard satisfactory music-making at the event. When I listened to your speakers there were lots of people milling around talking and consequently the level was set fairly high. Furthermore the acoustics were far from ideal.
So perhaps it is "lame" to report what I heard, and please accept my apologies for not being fair.
I would expect that in a good listening room the upper bass would be more pronounced and the deep bass less so. I would also expect the midrange to be less sharp.
Even the Orions seemed to suffer from bad acoustics - something we're told open baffle speakers are relatively immune to.
Hopefully the next event will provide some better (and more isolated) listening spaces.
Simon
Well Phil I was thinking we wouldn't be welcome next time with no mention so far LOL.
Hey my usual listening level is about half that again - probably the reason I'm been asked to buy some closed back phones! If anyone has recommendations let me know.
John
vitalstates said:
We didn't compare the F2 with the same piece of music.
It perhaps only seemed that the F2 sounded better.
How do both amps compare at home (sibilance-wise) in most likely better conditions?
/Hugo
Hi Hugo
I'm afraid I can't answer that question. I've never compared them before because the EL34 was taken out of the studio where it works hard with ariel 6c, and the F2 and the vofos I took from the storeroom.
Given the choice I would have brought ariels to do the comparison as I'm more familiar with the sound but unfortunately they wont work with the F2 as they have a xover.
I'm afraid I can't answer that question. I've never compared them before because the EL34 was taken out of the studio where it works hard with ariel 6c, and the F2 and the vofos I took from the storeroom.
Given the choice I would have brought ariels to do the comparison as I'm more familiar with the sound but unfortunately they wont work with the F2 as they have a xover.
vitalstates said:
I'm not that technically skilled and only heard what I heard. The F2 sounded less sibilant but mine never does. Could it be the speakers?
/Hugo
Its entirely possible it could have been the speakers. Its not something that I've heard before from the vofos but I can't remember what tracks were playing so I can't even go back and check that it wasn't that either. All in all, not a very good experiment from an engineering point of view. I think I was so disillusioned with the acoustics that I really didn't give it enough attention.
next time hopefully.
next time hopefully.
A week on from the meet and I'll share a few more impressions of the Orions. Some of you will remember that I only had them running 3 days before the meet and now I've had a chance to play with a few more sources.
First I'll get the sweeping bottom line out of the way. Are they the best I've ever heard? Take account for my biased view but, overall yes, probably. Having only listened to box speakers mostly until now they take a little getting used to. I've played with DAC's and a few sources and found a big contrast. SACD played on the Shanling transport going through the solid state output is simply amazing and really highlights how compressed sounding most of the other recordings I listen to really are. This ultimately is the Orions allowing the difference to be highlighted which I simply couldn't hear before.
I tested and could hear distinct differences between a Shanling transport and SS output, and a budget dvd player into an Audiosector NOS DAC, the latter fuller and more real sounding, the former sounding more distant but less harsh on the mids and highs. The revealing midrange of the Orions is amazing. What I was initially concerned with, and mistook as an inability to resolve, muddled and sometimes honking midrange is mostly the recordings based on what I've heard over the last two days. Some flaws are obviously attributed to exciting room modes as we heard at the meet, and my living room although far superior still doesn't allow for optimal positioning of the Orions, but I'm certain of one thing - There 's far more contrast between recordings on the Orions than I've ever heard with any other speaker.
For sake of a comparisson, the best commercial speaker I can compare with, and the only ESL's I'm familiar with (Martin Logan Ascent's) offer a sharper midrange transient sound. Admittedly it's very subjective, but this ESL 'property' has an air of gimmickry IMO - more of an exageration in sound than revealing accuracy. The Orions compare just as well in revealing microdetail, but also extend further in the frequency extremes, especially the bass, and then really begin to excel at the feeling of presense, stage and transparency. But this is best with live recordings - of which I rarely listen to.
Ultimately therein lies the problem. As a friend pointed out, the music I like to 'hear' rather than listen to isn't live/acoutsic recordings, or the stuff masterfully recorded onto SACD.
So for immediate future, I may just get a squeeze box, plug in the NOS DAC and call it a day. 😉
V
First I'll get the sweeping bottom line out of the way. Are they the best I've ever heard? Take account for my biased view but, overall yes, probably. Having only listened to box speakers mostly until now they take a little getting used to. I've played with DAC's and a few sources and found a big contrast. SACD played on the Shanling transport going through the solid state output is simply amazing and really highlights how compressed sounding most of the other recordings I listen to really are. This ultimately is the Orions allowing the difference to be highlighted which I simply couldn't hear before.
I tested and could hear distinct differences between a Shanling transport and SS output, and a budget dvd player into an Audiosector NOS DAC, the latter fuller and more real sounding, the former sounding more distant but less harsh on the mids and highs. The revealing midrange of the Orions is amazing. What I was initially concerned with, and mistook as an inability to resolve, muddled and sometimes honking midrange is mostly the recordings based on what I've heard over the last two days. Some flaws are obviously attributed to exciting room modes as we heard at the meet, and my living room although far superior still doesn't allow for optimal positioning of the Orions, but I'm certain of one thing - There 's far more contrast between recordings on the Orions than I've ever heard with any other speaker.
For sake of a comparisson, the best commercial speaker I can compare with, and the only ESL's I'm familiar with (Martin Logan Ascent's) offer a sharper midrange transient sound. Admittedly it's very subjective, but this ESL 'property' has an air of gimmickry IMO - more of an exageration in sound than revealing accuracy. The Orions compare just as well in revealing microdetail, but also extend further in the frequency extremes, especially the bass, and then really begin to excel at the feeling of presense, stage and transparency. But this is best with live recordings - of which I rarely listen to.
Ultimately therein lies the problem. As a friend pointed out, the music I like to 'hear' rather than listen to isn't live/acoutsic recordings, or the stuff masterfully recorded onto SACD.
So for immediate future, I may just get a squeeze box, plug in the NOS DAC and call it a day. 😉
V
That's great news Vik, well pleased your enjoying them. At the meet I could hear they were capable speakers but the acoustics more than anything just meant that they didn't quite shine.
It looks like you've got an easy life regarding DIY, at least in the short-term. I hope you look into DRC, I think its something you'd feel comfortable with as your not afraid of digital methods. If it were me I'd consider replacing the whole XO and EQ sections with FIR variants and particularly look into steeper slopes on the mid-tweeter transition. This route would also open up the option for a phase coherent or time aligned design. Linkwitz didn't have these tools at his disposal or rather he may have but didn't consider them to be beneficial to mass appeal/cost effectiveness. Looking back at my own experiences there's more scope for a more technically correct speaker with these methods - that's not to say any of it will guarantee a better sound.
The DRC stuff is worth checking out too. Might be less beneficial on the Orions because of their OB natural but never underestimate just how much your room is messing up your sound especially in the upto 500hz range.
Before doing anything though, I'd sit back and enjoy them for a couple of months. Really get to know them and then start tweaking.
It looks like you've got an easy life regarding DIY, at least in the short-term. I hope you look into DRC, I think its something you'd feel comfortable with as your not afraid of digital methods. If it were me I'd consider replacing the whole XO and EQ sections with FIR variants and particularly look into steeper slopes on the mid-tweeter transition. This route would also open up the option for a phase coherent or time aligned design. Linkwitz didn't have these tools at his disposal or rather he may have but didn't consider them to be beneficial to mass appeal/cost effectiveness. Looking back at my own experiences there's more scope for a more technically correct speaker with these methods - that's not to say any of it will guarantee a better sound.
The DRC stuff is worth checking out too. Might be less beneficial on the Orions because of their OB natural but never underestimate just how much your room is messing up your sound especially in the upto 500hz range.
Before doing anything though, I'd sit back and enjoy them for a couple of months. Really get to know them and then start tweaking.
OK Guys.
Should a new thread be started for the next meeting, '08, even if it is in the South!!!!
Then we will have a deadline. The six months for the '07 meet went amazingly quickly.
Andy
Should a new thread be started for the next meeting, '08, even if it is in the South!!!!
Then we will have a deadline. The six months for the '07 meet went amazingly quickly.
Andy
The design is time-aligned: http://orion.quicksytes.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=331&p=1909&hilit=time+alignment#p1909ShinOBIWAN said:
I believe Chris who brought the JX92 Toblerones intends to go the DSP route for his Orions. Would be interesting to see what he thinks.
You can see what SL thinks of using a DSP here: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_asp.htm
But yeah, I won't be tweaking anything for a while and will spend some time listening to music for a change!
V
- Status
- Not open for further replies.