You can order 3 of v14 at a time from oshpark at the link supplied earlier for about $34 including shipping in USA, v10 is about $44. Not sure if they charge more for foreign shipments.
Vanofonk,
If a little money is needed to print several pcbs : one or two at each step : we can maybe share fees by a service GB with PayPall : payement as a service !
I'm not a rich man in this moment but each stingy can give few bucks. 1 dollars cost you 1.04 dollars with the PP fees. Here in France we prefer gang bangs than onasism . We are not sharing Scarlett Johansson... "Oh sorry Darling... go back to sleep"... yes she likes the frenchs*)
Levarage Buying Out is your friend (is it said like that in english ?)
* : english litterature is only here to give a rythm ! Like Steevie Wonder ...
I have not understand yet the sharing plateform you have choose... need to read more : is it a sharing payment site about design and printing pcbs both ? Just a printing plateform with minimal quantity order ?
I don't want a not efficient or not tested design but be ready to have small participation for the improvement and tested design : which is possible if many give a small something. and of course ready to sign in above with such web site at the end when it works !
My thought was to allow you to go on in your test and new modifications: people who participate will have the priority if a GB will born.
Of course without guaranties of your side : that's why multiple small donations are best in my minds : like the micro credits spirit !
Just an idea, because maybe you don't need and prefer keep the "licence" of your draw to reward it at the end ? But here people will share for free if efforts are free or shared with a final GB if I understood the spirit of DIYAUDIO. Free to take a little something or not when the GB will occur ?
I don't want a not efficient or not tested design but be ready to have small participation for the improvement and tested design : which is possible if many give a small something. and of course ready to sign in above with such web site at the end when it works !
My thought was to allow you to go on in your test and new modifications: people who participate will have the priority if a GB will born.
Of course without guaranties of your side : that's why multiple small donations are best in my minds : like the micro credits spirit !
Just an idea, because maybe you don't need and prefer keep the "licence" of your draw to reward it at the end ? But here people will share for free if efforts are free or shared with a final GB if I understood the spirit of DIYAUDIO. Free to take a little something or not when the GB will occur ?
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I just put them up there for people to buy if they wanted. I have stated a few times in this thread that I would release the files to anyone who wanted to run a group buy. Not one time has anyone responded. I have gotten plenty of responses that people just wanted to buy boards, so I released them at oshpark for that purpose.
Once again, if someone wants to run a group buy, or continue developing for that matter, I'll release the files to them. I just don't have any time or interest in running one. I also don't just want to release the files, because I don't really have time to answer all the questions that would come.
Once again, if someone wants to run a group buy, or continue developing for that matter, I'll release the files to them. I just don't have any time or interest in running one. I also don't just want to release the files, because I don't really have time to answer all the questions that would come.
to all who share and are goodwill ambassador :Audial | Hi-end audio design : Pedja in contact form ?
You will see free shematic about I/V conversion with the OPA861 : "simple" to draw and compact !
I appreciate the fact we have recently almost 3000 readings in less than 2 weeks!
Maybe someone could improve with ideas above Vanofonk's PCB and test it ?
I like the will to ask to Pedja : bravo Audiolapdance.
I like the will to ask to Pedja : bravo Audiolapdance.
Pedja is a very nice fellow and should respond to email sent to his Audial site. I built his TDA1541a DAC about 10 years ago http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/29604-tda1541a-non-o-s-dac-pcb-23.html#post517146
I don't know if he wants to share his older TDA1541a boards since he's now a commercial vendor. Best of luck with your adventures.
---Gary
thank you Garry,
at AudioLapDance : maybe the one before (stoped in 2012) : Audial D-09 DAC both with USB and SPIDF ! coooooooool !
it is with TDA1387 like the CD-777: here we have to understand how Audial come back with the TDA1541A with the last design. They say they use the best old TDA ever maid : in th eend of 2000 years : see what are the 2 first number on your chip : it's the year, the 2 others are the week of production (e.G my photograph in a thread above...)
Here two leads :
GB of New old Stock of branded pcb or device
Some ideas to improve the Vanofonk board (anybody for testing) with links to daughter boards (input I2S stage, output stage) around the core boards
at AudioLapDance : maybe the one before (stoped in 2012) : Audial D-09 DAC both with USB and SPIDF ! coooooooool !
it is with TDA1387 like the CD-777: here we have to understand how Audial come back with the TDA1541A with the last design. They say they use the best old TDA ever maid : in th eend of 2000 years : see what are the 2 first number on your chip : it's the year, the 2 others are the week of production (e.G my photograph in a thread above...)
Here two leads :
GB of New old Stock of branded pcb or device
Some ideas to improve the Vanofonk board (anybody for testing) with links to daughter boards (input I2S stage, output stage) around the core boards
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Sigh!
Don't think that you're going to get a PCB if you don't put any work in!
Here's a summary from T's hints:
T's first hints:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-4.html#post2854098
DEM reclocking and I2S Attenuators
One of the areas where we can really gain over generica is with DEM reclocking and I2S Attenuators. For this my recommendation would be to use the classic, simple passive I2S attenuators and direct resistive DEM reclocking John Brown (ecdesigns) kindly shared with the diya community.
For simplicity, use a 74HC4040 to divide BCK (which will be between 32 and 64Fs depending on your precise source) down for the DEM reclocker so you get between 4 and 8 Fs for the reclock, other frequencies do work, but can be tricky to get to work reliably, let's walk before we run.
This can be optimised a lot more, but to be honest, it works very well and is easy to apply, the jump from "bog standard" to this configuration is by far larger than from this to a major optimised version.
In front of the I2S attenuator place a reclocker.
There is some major debate here and ideally we would be using seperate reclocker IC's for each and every line, ideally with daisy chained flip flops from one 74HC74 IC. While I do not as such disagree, this solution is not very diy friendly. Plus, using three IC's instead of one increases the clock load for the system clock, you win some you loose some.
So I would use a multi-flipflop reclocker instead, a 74HC175 is a quad, allowing us also to reclock the divided down BCK for the DEM reclocking. So the 74HC4040 is connected from the BCK in front of the re-clocker.
With the 74HC175 we have both inverted and non-inverted outputs, so we can drive the DEM reclocker directly, no extra inverters needed. As the I2S attenuator circuit will pose a load onto the reclocker IC (and through it on the supply) it is best to add the same components to the unused output, where they balance the load, so we do not see any PSU load change if the outputs change state.
IC use is modest, just a 74HC175 reclocker and a 74HC4040 as divider for the DEM Clock in front of the TDA1541.
DEM Decoupling
Okay, next stop, DEM Decoupling, the capacitors should be small size, surface mount and Film. There are now many such options, 0.1uF is minimum value recommended, bigger can work, but avoid physically big cap's.
For the TDA1541 ONLY we can also use these SMD film cap's for the PSU rail decoupling. At the worst it will see around 6MHz clocks AND because the TDA1541 internally uses current steering (a non-standard ECL Logic essentially), so there is much less RF in the PSU Rails we need to decouple.
I personally would add also Elna Silmic cap's on the DAC rails and use larger value film Cap's added to the MSB DEM decoupling Pins, or even Os-Con's (as for the MSB only any leakage in the cap will only change the overall level.
Power Supplies
Now power supplies. I would suggest using shunt regulators, however the important part is that shunt section is close to the TDA1541. Feed them from current sources, which can be remote and add a choke before the Shunt Reg.
There are many options, take your pick. I used TL431's on many of my DAC's and they work well, are compact and easily applied. But they can be bettered quite easily, but with more complexity. Similar tradeoff's apply to current sources.
Again, the shunt regulator (whatever you end up using) is really only worth having if you can get right up close to the IC, the CCS can be placed as you like. If you do not get the Shunt close to the supplied circuit you might as well use a LM317 Chip reg.
Use a completely separate set of windings or even transformer to generate the supplies for the TDA1541. You can use two windings to generate +/- for the TDA1541, no need for three, more interesting arrangements may be applied for those who know how to do it...
Use another windings rectifier and associated misellania and regulator only for the reclocker. Give the reclocker the best decoupling you can, 0603 SMD Capacitors into a groundplane is really recommended on top of bigger bypasses. Use an extra shunt / ccs to produce the supply for the I2S Attenuators, but you can share the raw supply with the reclocker.
Have another separate supply for the rest of the logic, you can share this with the rest of the source, use a choke and some sensible decoupling though.
The clock in the source that eventually feeds the reclocker should have a very good, fully separate supply with very low noise.
Analogue Stage
Add an analogue stage to taste, I'd probably try a CEN right now, for fun, or use my "final" tube stage instead, Lukasz Fikus's design is an option too, you can even use Op-Amp's or anything you fancy.
From T's veroboard hints:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-13.html#post2862125
Power supply
A particular tick I like is to "bridge over" the power lines using an axial choke (looks like a resistor, mostly), spaced above the board using ferrite beads, with each spacer/bead being one of two formulations , the choke itself usually looses it at a few MHz at best, a "low RF" ferrite bead then takes over and as this looses effectiveness a "high RF" ferrite bead (like >100R @ 100MHz) takes over. Any shunt element are on the "far side"of this arrangement.
Guido Tent's document on decoupling contains all we will need for this build, all shunt elements (capacitors, regulators - for AC even series regulators are actually shunts) need to offer a minimal loop area. Modern IC's often have adjecent ground and power pins ideally spaced for 0603 or 0402 capacitors. See the CS8414 photos earlier in the thread for an example - the 0603 size SMD cap's are 1uF, the 1206 size SMD cap's are 10uF.
Current Flow
An important consideration is always "where does the current flow"?
For example, the I2S attenuators draw current from the driving IC.
By making the reclocker IC a 74HC175 Quad Flip-Flop and loading both outputs of each flip-flop equally we avoid most of the problems modulating the powersupply, but the current will still show glitches and it wants to return to the ground pin of the 74HC175, NOT to the TDA1541... So make your arrangements accordingly.
On the other hand, the TDA1541 inputs draw VERY little current, so we can connect them from the I2S attenuators with fairly long and fairly thin wires (don't overdo it to prove a point though).
SMD film caps
As it stands using 1206 SMD parts for the 74HC logic in DIP format (that is parts with pins that go through the board, not SMD) will do.
For the TDA1541 use the same SMD Film Cap's for both decoupling the DEM Pins (14pcs in total) and to decouple the supply pins (3).
Using 0.1uF Panasonic types in 1210 format (stand them on edge to fit) means they are effective to around 12MHz. As the TDA1541 is bipolar current steering based, it does behave rather different from modern CMOS chips in terms of PSU noise and has no real problems with this kind of decoupling, a CMOS chip on the other hand would be a disaster area decoupled like this.
For the TDA1541 all the decoupling capacitors should be placed below the Chip pointing inwards, with a solid ground plane under the chip.
Now would someone with some technical ability please check this with VofM's PCB!
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Well, good jitter performance is the direct result of correct implementation.
=andrea_mori; said:
This is correct.
Not necessarily, and not always the best result.
This is closer to the correct implementation of MCK.
However, sending (and loading ) a high frequency square wave is not a trivial task.
I advice very much against some peple's method of transferring digital signals with a single wire from point A t B.
Remember, MCK square wave signal cannot be treated like DC or low freq analog signals.
It is all about implementation folks.
TDA1543 is a lot easier to work with, but it cannot match the sonics of a properly implemented TDA1541A.
Although I have heard many who like TDA1543 vs TDA1541 and it is very positive, I don't share that opinion.
I think TDA1541 is in anther league vs TDA1543.
I respect your opinion, but replacing an optimized TDA1541 with and equally optimized TDA1543 in my
designs (with proper periphery of course) lead to a 'slightly' worse overall performance (clarity).
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He's commented before that there is indeed a large subjective difference between the two. Whether he is biased or not might be closer to the antithesis of your point
I fully respect Mr Loesch comments on this issue.
Looking at:
- the internal construction of the cd-777 vs cd-77,
- the components and component values used,
'a large subjective difference' is unlikely, unless something else
is at work here that is not visible.
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Thank you Alexiss to help us.
XO Crystal, About the layout: which size, 2 or 4 leads, frequency, which brand & power supply ?
Power supply of the XO: XO closest to the DAC, compact power supply near it:
Decoupling of the crystal itself: compact as Marce fellow show elsewhere: 2 or 3 x 603 smd NPO or X7R caps.
Starting to the crystal to the powersupply : XO ->1nF+10nF+100nF : horizontal stacking with lowest values closest as possible to the ps pin of the Crystal. -> smd ferrite beads (300 to 600 ohms ?) -> ldo reg smd SOT-23 size TI LP5907 (4 leads but 2 to gnd: simple, not shunt cap needed & stable with NPO caps). -> smd inductance around 100 uH -> end of the core board = connector to external regulated PowerSupply board. If very lownoise reg is nneded I poll again for the readymade : AKR47VH Super Regulator https://sites.google.com/site/ackodac/home (end of the page) used vertically :it has its own contigous ground plane but I really don’t know if such a added pcb could be really a good idea for crystal XO layout (and the cost also : 40 x more expensive than the little TI above but maybe one of the less noisy compact reg device) ? Any input about that please ? Maybe the choice of a better crystal is more important if cost is involved and choices has to be made ?
@ Andrea_Mori : may you drive the Crystal layout please ? Or could you add a little design on the VanoFonk screen PCB and off course hints of my very simple ideas above ? As you like, your choice &/or personal agenda of course.
there are excelent advises about RF, clock, I2S and PCB design in the I2S/cable thread in the digital line forum. Marce has very good adives but anothers advises are very good as well.
We always need someone to correct the VanoFonk design and share with him in group mode with the fellows above here. I saw with my non experience than Vano already use the best way for I2S pcb design : GSGSGSG (G= gnd, S= signal) with the GND trace are bigger... maybe they have to be of the same width than the signal one ? Marce any input pleaaaaaaaase
Please we have to stay beamed on the TDA1541 for a better reading; there are anothers posts for TDA choice : here we have choose the TDA1541 ! (but the brand new device GB Audiolapdance manage)
Help appreciate please... join us !
XO Crystal, About the layout: which size, 2 or 4 leads, frequency, which brand & power supply ?
Power supply of the XO: XO closest to the DAC, compact power supply near it:
Decoupling of the crystal itself: compact as Marce fellow show elsewhere: 2 or 3 x 603 smd NPO or X7R caps.
Starting to the crystal to the powersupply : XO ->1nF+10nF+100nF : horizontal stacking with lowest values closest as possible to the ps pin of the Crystal. -> smd ferrite beads (300 to 600 ohms ?) -> ldo reg smd SOT-23 size TI LP5907 (4 leads but 2 to gnd: simple, not shunt cap needed & stable with NPO caps). -> smd inductance around 100 uH -> end of the core board = connector to external regulated PowerSupply board. If very lownoise reg is nneded I poll again for the readymade : AKR47VH Super Regulator https://sites.google.com/site/ackodac/home (end of the page) used vertically :it has its own contigous ground plane but I really don’t know if such a added pcb could be really a good idea for crystal XO layout (and the cost also : 40 x more expensive than the little TI above but maybe one of the less noisy compact reg device) ? Any input about that please ? Maybe the choice of a better crystal is more important if cost is involved and choices has to be made ?
@ Andrea_Mori : may you drive the Crystal layout please ? Or could you add a little design on the VanoFonk screen PCB and off course hints of my very simple ideas above ? As you like, your choice &/or personal agenda of course.
there are excelent advises about RF, clock, I2S and PCB design in the I2S/cable thread in the digital line forum. Marce has very good adives but anothers advises are very good as well.
We always need someone to correct the VanoFonk design and share with him in group mode with the fellows above here. I saw with my non experience than Vano already use the best way for I2S pcb design : GSGSGSG (G= gnd, S= signal) with the GND trace are bigger... maybe they have to be of the same width than the signal one ? Marce any input pleaaaaaaaase
Please we have to stay beamed on the TDA1541 for a better reading; there are anothers posts for TDA choice : here we have choose the TDA1541 ! (but the brand new device GB Audiolapdance manage)
Help appreciate please... join us !
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@ Audiolapdance :
what about the input of Alexiss in one of its post above about I2S attenuators John gave: serie resistors and/or diodes but the capacitor shunt to gnd (my understanding)? The less the easier to draw, Alexis DIY many TDA1541 DAC and listen to the both solution already ?! Testimonies appreciated…anyone ?
good hints about RF signals and pcb's design here : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/223936-i2s-cable-wire-type.html#post3248872
Parts: It’s too soon for that but but my two cents, trying to understand and repeat with humility what I read here in Diya:
Parts and design around active devices in the core board : ok for Guido Tent famous pdf: the minimum ground loop the better : so littliest parts possible = smd and compact layout. Minimum space between leads à la VanoFonk more than the bigger or more “airy” RedBaron V5 layout. Already done by VanoFonk, but maybe use smd 603 each time possible for reducing inductance.
Capacitors : TDA and Core board.
I poll for ceramic of course: in theory less noisy than the Cornell Dublier smd 1210 size John’s design. But special reason again: better sound with the Cornells’ in DEM position? Not important yet but for the drawing! Do we need the best RF decoupling here with TDA 1541? Maybe not as it’s not CMOS, but certainly the lower size for inductance ! So smd 603 = ceramic X7R or NPO and not expensive Cornell Dublier acrylic caps… I repeat also than fellow OSHIFI (don’t remember exactly the name) found than without DEM caps but the MSB, sound was ok ! Any testimonies here please ?
DEM caps: I vote for 603 smd 0.2 uF X7R/NPO (ceramic). SMD 403 is too difficult and it’s not CMOS here. For the MSB : X7R smd or MKT (2.5 mm leads spacing max), polymer (2.5 mm leads spacing): values ? (not important yet). I am against Elna SII for the core board but special reasons (?) because so good polymers exist in high or low value smd like with small can with 2.5 mm leads spacing. Can cap in the polymer family have often better ESR than smd’s… United Chemicon LF serie are very good again. OSCON SEPC/F also but can be a trap (test needed)…I don’t like the famous polymer red FP caps cause I found it always crispy/harsh in highs and too round in low in regards to the two less expensive above. But not important yet, flavor is the end of the design. Ok for something special for the MSBs’ caps: one of 100 nF on the TDA pins + a bigger value just behind ?!
Resistors : Sussumu smd thin films resistor seems to be appreciated: low noise, especially for dividers
Ferrite beads & inductors are not expensive in smd like later for the main PS common mode chockes.
Here we need someone to manage the layout of the I2S with the best inputs of John, Audiolapdance, Alexiss, anybody with good hints. the shorter between the dac chip and a side of the board with all the attenuators (I an myself unable to read if VanoFonk did it already : attenuators yes but don't know about the silmutaneous mode ussed by Pedja ?). Connectors for outside I2S have to be standard (the free I2S signals or also the MCLK and other 5V ?) with conectors or holes with GSGSGSG..(SGSG more if 5 signals used !)
Audiolapdance, Alexiss, other ? RedBaron 's father (Oliver) for improve its pcbs for V6 or help us ?
what about the input of Alexiss in one of its post above about I2S attenuators John gave: serie resistors and/or diodes but the capacitor shunt to gnd (my understanding)? The less the easier to draw, Alexis DIY many TDA1541 DAC and listen to the both solution already ?! Testimonies appreciated…anyone ?
good hints about RF signals and pcb's design here : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/223936-i2s-cable-wire-type.html#post3248872
Parts: It’s too soon for that but but my two cents, trying to understand and repeat with humility what I read here in Diya:
Parts and design around active devices in the core board : ok for Guido Tent famous pdf: the minimum ground loop the better : so littliest parts possible = smd and compact layout. Minimum space between leads à la VanoFonk more than the bigger or more “airy” RedBaron V5 layout. Already done by VanoFonk, but maybe use smd 603 each time possible for reducing inductance.
Capacitors : TDA and Core board.
I poll for ceramic of course: in theory less noisy than the Cornell Dublier smd 1210 size John’s design. But special reason again: better sound with the Cornells’ in DEM position? Not important yet but for the drawing! Do we need the best RF decoupling here with TDA 1541? Maybe not as it’s not CMOS, but certainly the lower size for inductance ! So smd 603 = ceramic X7R or NPO and not expensive Cornell Dublier acrylic caps… I repeat also than fellow OSHIFI (don’t remember exactly the name) found than without DEM caps but the MSB, sound was ok ! Any testimonies here please ?
DEM caps: I vote for 603 smd 0.2 uF X7R/NPO (ceramic). SMD 403 is too difficult and it’s not CMOS here. For the MSB : X7R smd or MKT (2.5 mm leads spacing max), polymer (2.5 mm leads spacing): values ? (not important yet). I am against Elna SII for the core board but special reasons (?) because so good polymers exist in high or low value smd like with small can with 2.5 mm leads spacing. Can cap in the polymer family have often better ESR than smd’s… United Chemicon LF serie are very good again. OSCON SEPC/F also but can be a trap (test needed)…I don’t like the famous polymer red FP caps cause I found it always crispy/harsh in highs and too round in low in regards to the two less expensive above. But not important yet, flavor is the end of the design. Ok for something special for the MSBs’ caps: one of 100 nF on the TDA pins + a bigger value just behind ?!
Resistors : Sussumu smd thin films resistor seems to be appreciated: low noise, especially for dividers
Ferrite beads & inductors are not expensive in smd like later for the main PS common mode chockes.
Here we need someone to manage the layout of the I2S with the best inputs of John, Audiolapdance, Alexiss, anybody with good hints. the shorter between the dac chip and a side of the board with all the attenuators (I an myself unable to read if VanoFonk did it already : attenuators yes but don't know about the silmutaneous mode ussed by Pedja ?). Connectors for outside I2S have to be standard (the free I2S signals or also the MCLK and other 5V ?) with conectors or holes with GSGSGSG..(SGSG more if 5 signals used !)
Audiolapdance, Alexiss, other ?
RedBaron 's father (Oliver) for improve its pcbs for V6 or help us ?
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My plan was to double-check VofM's PCB against Thorsten's hints as summarized in post 709
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-71.html#post3880972
And T's criticisms of v8 sch/v10 PCB that I received from emailing him as listed in post 686
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-69.html#post3879183
VanofMonks hasn't responded yet as to whether he has any time to put into this project. I'm guessing he doesn't so what we need now is someone with some technical skill and access to the same software that VofM used to generate his PCB to apply all of T's hints, test as much as possible in the simulator and then send the files to that oshpark PCB website (or another) and have a few of us that have test equipment test the PCB out. Then make any required changes and re-release.
I don't think a group design from the ground up will go anywhere ... or rather it will go all over the place if you know what I mean.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-71.html#post3880972
And T's criticisms of v8 sch/v10 PCB that I received from emailing him as listed in post 686
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-69.html#post3879183
VanofMonks hasn't responded yet as to whether he has any time to put into this project. I'm guessing he doesn't so what we need now is someone with some technical skill and access to the same software that VofM used to generate his PCB to apply all of T's hints, test as much as possible in the simulator and then send the files to that oshpark PCB website (or another) and have a few of us that have test equipment test the PCB out. Then make any required changes and re-release.
I don't think a group design from the ground up will go anywhere ... or rather it will go all over the place if you know what I mean.
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I don't think a group design from the ground up will go anywhere ... or rather it will go all over the place if you know what I mean.
Agreed.. just another couple hundred pages on how to re-invent the wheel.
Eldam,
With regard to your questions from a few days ago; Pedja's business is based in Serbia. The AYA II DAC is discontinued, doesn't mean that it is somehow not fully developed in design. Following some of the Links offered buy Gary B shows that ten or so years ago he started a thread offering a PCB for 1541A, in which he states that he's already tried 100's off differing schemes for 1541A and this was way back then. Having compared the AYA II with several other D/A converters I can confirm, without doubt, that its subjective performance is not likely the limiting factor in most audio systems.
Very nice guy, quite approachable.. again, you'd just need to approach it the right way and for the right reason.
I appreciate your enthusiasm and hope this thread leads to where you are wanting to get to.
Shane
Exactly, no need to reinvent the wheel!
As I said in post 684, with VofM's PCB we're 80% there!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-69.html#post3879012
Let's just apply T's hints:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-71.html#post3880972
and criticisms:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-69.html#post3879183
And get this show on the road!
Hmmm, rereading VofM's post 561
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit-57.html#post3866751
looks like he's definitely out. So does anyone recognize what SW he used?
OSH Park ~ dac1-v14
...
For the love of bipolars, don't make me do that too!
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Hi Shane,
But I d'ont want reinvent the wheel. I want to do quite the opposite :take all what allready exist and given for free like vanoFonk did. It seems to me just some of the best design were missing on his already good pcb... People understood my will to do better than AMR... I'm not naive, I just want to have better than the real thieves who sell crap kits on Ebay...that's all !
here we call that Pic Nic : if anybody come with someting you have a meal (it's joke because this is universal !).
Am i not the first to had a proposal of GB for brandnew devices (or new old stock now from another idea above) ?
I'm sure the time needed to upgrade the Vanofonk pcb is not another wheel but few times if many people try to help more : few than 6 months with test :
We don't need too much things : redisgn the inputs with the already existings design free shared (John, Pedja) or better with the ideas of some here (ALexiss, Anrea Mori, ...) because they have already test those designs and have good idea how they play with DIY !
For output as Audiolapdance wrote : take a daughter board or a kit (Tubes, whatever you want !)
That's all. I must be naive. I prefer to try than find bad excuses about my personal agenda as some do. As I have the time to share my personal agenda these days.
i don't understand what you write about good approach with Pedja ?!!!! I want to play collective, because it is funnier than doing nothing in a rat hole alone and at the end finally listen to good music.... that is a personal pleasure it's true but with family !
thank you for all your inputs Shan, I read many of yours older threads about TDA1541... I really understand what you want to say me about turning the wheel ! Believe me it's harder to me because "pardon my english" !
Hé if we stop here, what a little good trip no ? Better a walking fool than a seated intellectual to find a DAC, no ?
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About AYA 2 from Pedja (yes it sounds nearer from Serbia than Australia °
I really don't know what to think about this design because todays we have also good little designs.
As I know GaryB because he shared some tips about the good little Subbu V3, my understanding is this non expensive design maybe sounds better than the AYA 2 (or at least very different, but you can only listen to one dac at time and he listen to Subbu V3 today !).
I think it can be better to try to ask AYA3 or D-09 the most recent of the two but all discontinued. AYA 3 is with tDA1541 but not the D-09 with the same chip as DV-777 : TDA1387. Here my idea is AudioLapdance try maybe to manage this... my understanding of on of him post above. My idea is the last sound better, because such serious designer do not worse with his last design (but some big famous brand can do it... Philips did because mass market needed !). Here with the D-09 and the AMR CD-777 we have the prove than the layout is more important than the chip (which is important of course because here we are fanatics who like this 30 years design dac chip). Anyway T Loesch as P. Rodjic came back for their flag ship to the TDA1541, and I am sure (or I hope so) than coming from them it's not about marketing and niche market.... If it is, imagine what they will be able to do with modern chips !
About the wheel, of course here we have to thanks all the fellows who share (sometimes at their own risk because you need to know minimum to assembly) :
Oliver from RedBaron : not expensive (I am pretty sure he is not making money with that & all for the DIY with money after), perpetual effort to make the pcb better (we are near to have a good design but the layout. Anyway there is both I2S divider and simultaneous mode with switxh which is unique)
Subbu & Jean-Paul : great effort to sound good at low price with a standalone product but the box (aluminium ?)
CURRYMAN : inexpensive I2S DAC with the same DAC chip as above (because superb SQ/P)
Joachim Gerrard who offer a buffer for those little DAC
Vanofonk : what a great idea to share on a web plateform...
These are recent. There are others and many who share partial design... other just their time as this is just what they have to play collective. I think this is a disease of todays to play collective because people are more and more individual... thanks to place like DIYA, we have sometimes the opposite... maybe because at the beginning hifi was very unaffordable also... maybe...
°I really don't know what to think about this design because todays we have also good little designs.
As I know GaryB because he shared some tips about the good little Subbu V3, my understanding is this non expensive design maybe sounds better than the AYA 2 (or at least very different, but you can only listen to one dac at time and he listen to Subbu V3 today !).
I think it can be better to try to ask AYA3 or D-09 the most recent of the two but all discontinued. AYA 3 is with tDA1541 but not the D-09 with the same chip as DV-777 : TDA1387. Here my idea is AudioLapdance try maybe to manage this... my understanding of on of him post above. My idea is the last sound better, because such serious designer do not worse with his last design (but some big famous brand can do it... Philips did because mass market needed !). Here with the D-09 and the AMR CD-777 we have the prove than the layout is more important than the chip (which is important of course because here we are fanatics who like this 30 years design dac chip). Anyway T Loesch as P. Rodjic came back for their flag ship to the TDA1541, and I am sure (or I hope so) than coming from them it's not about marketing and niche market.... If it is, imagine what they will be able to do with modern chips !
About the wheel, of course here we have to thanks all the fellows who share (sometimes at their own risk because you need to know minimum to assembly) :
Oliver from RedBaron : not expensive (I am pretty sure he is not making money with that & all for the DIY with money after), perpetual effort to make the pcb better (we are near to have a good design but the layout. Anyway there is both I2S divider and simultaneous mode with switxh which is unique)
Subbu & Jean-Paul : great effort to sound good at low price with a standalone product but the box (aluminium ?)
CURRYMAN : inexpensive I2S DAC with the same DAC chip as above (because superb SQ/P)
Joachim Gerrard who offer a buffer for those little DAC
Vanofonk : what a great idea to share on a web plateform...
These are recent. There are others and many who share partial design... other just their time as this is just what they have to play collective. I think this is a disease of todays to play collective because people are more and more individual... thanks to place like DIYA, we have sometimes the opposite... maybe because at the beginning hifi was very unaffordable also... maybe...
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Eldam,
With all due respect, you don't know what I'm listening to today. Last time I checked, the distance from California to France was over 9000km. Unless you have very good hearing, you can't know
.This long thread inspired me to pull out my TDA1541a DAC and today I am listening to it in the same system where I had been listening to the Subbu V3 DAC. I have 2 systems so I can listen to two DACs at the same time although it's better to do only one at a time. The Subbu DAC is quite good and makes me hear things that could be better in the TDA1541a DAC. But the TDA1541a DAC is also very good and has its own strengths. The comparison makes me curious to experiment with things like DEM caps and i2s attenuators, which my Pedja DAC doesn't include.
Here's my advice. If all you want is the best DAC with the minimum effort then buy a commercial product. There are many good ones and some great ones if you have the money. If you want the best DIY DAC for minimal effort, then I think that the Subbu V3 DAC with the various mods that I've discussed in other threads is hard to beat. If you enjoy the adventure of DIY and trying to continuously improve a design, then the TDA1541a has the potential to keep you busy for a very long time
. Digital audio is hard for the non-professional since the signals are very high frequency and most DIYers don't have the equipment to see problems. So I think that building a TDA1541a DAC may ultimately be a frustrating exercise. It will be fun and you'll learn a lot but you may not get a reward in terms of sound that is large compared to all the effort. But don't let me discourage you. It will be a great learning experience and you'll have fun.
All the best.
---Gary
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