Wow, they are like jewels !!
I think you have 4? I'm so glad to see someone else collecting these super cool retro receivers, I'm not alone LOL.
I see a couple have Dolby too. I think my Sansui 8080 is an 8080db, which means it has a dolby board - but the sansui dolby boards and not always reliable (although mine seems to work Ok!).
I have no Marantz, not sure why, but some Pioneer, Sansui, Sony, and one Leak, Akai and Awai for good measure 😀
Hi Globulator,
Try actually testing with good equipment and equate that to listening. You'll find agreement between them. That's always what I have said, no more, no less.
Try actually testing with good equipment and equate that to listening. You'll find agreement between them. That's always what I have said, no more, no less.
That difference is nothing. The rating depends on allowed temperature increase. If they are running too warm, change to a TO-126 package since the uniwatt packages were discontinued. (TO-92M). I would update the drivers for sure. They should then fit in without having to rotate the package so the pins line up. If you really want to use crimp-on connectors, put a touch of heat sink grease in there.
Hmmm, the db models have a two board dolby and it runs all signals through it. The boards can have intermittent board to board, and also top to bottom connections. A nightmare of intermittents. Since the dolby board provides gain, you can't just bypass it (but this would improve sound quality). I usually recommend people avoid the db units. I have an 8080db I think. Nice amp design, too bad about the dolby boards.
I would be more inclined to epoxy that “heat sink” on. I wouldn’t want it to get loose over time, thermal grease on not. It’s not really a bad idea for making a vbe thermal sensor, either.
Listening some very good music at the chalet, here a very simple sound system that sounds a thousand box, Yamaha CR-800 (no dolby boards 😉 receiver with Mission 717 speakers. You couldn’t believe I pickup these speakers for 250$ with stands, as new! Source at the moment is an ipod first generation, music files uncompress, very good Chris Botti for example, sounds just lovely. I have also a vintage Sony a 338ESD CD player. I think vintage electronic needs to be pair with vintage speakers of the same area.
I have mega bucks sound system at home, but this small vintage system just hits the spot.
Just my two cents.
NB: there is actually a nice story about this receiver, one of my nieces one day say this receiver on the side of the road, and she thought, well my uncle that is into hifi (that was me 😉) can probably use this. She pick it up and here I’m with it.
It was in incredible shape, no noise on any of the pots, nothing, almost as brand new. Now it is making greats music at the chalet…
SB
I have mega bucks sound system at home, but this small vintage system just hits the spot.
Just my two cents.
NB: there is actually a nice story about this receiver, one of my nieces one day say this receiver on the side of the road, and she thought, well my uncle that is into hifi (that was me 😉) can probably use this. She pick it up and here I’m with it.
It was in incredible shape, no noise on any of the pots, nothing, almost as brand new. Now it is making greats music at the chalet…
SB
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Hi wg_ski,
It wouldn't matter if it could slide out as a bias sensor. We have thermal epoxy (expensive) that is effective. The construction is essentially what those special transistors are anyway. I would just use a TO-126 case and bolt the sucker down. Isolated case parts don't even need an insulator, and it is more secure.
Hi Algar_emi,
Gawd! I did warranty service on both speakers and receiver. It was a good sounding little system for the time. Enjoy!
Now who told that person to throw it out??? You're a winner.
It wouldn't matter if it could slide out as a bias sensor. We have thermal epoxy (expensive) that is effective. The construction is essentially what those special transistors are anyway. I would just use a TO-126 case and bolt the sucker down. Isolated case parts don't even need an insulator, and it is more secure.
Hi Algar_emi,
Gawd! I did warranty service on both speakers and receiver. It was a good sounding little system for the time. Enjoy!
Now who told that person to throw it out??? You're a winner.
Hi Algar_emi.
I too have a Sony a 338ESD CD player.
Bought at a Scouts fundraising sale for $10 as it wouldn't load CDs anymore. Found a belt that was about the right size to replace the obviously stretched tray operating belt and all is good.
It has been used daily for several years now and I read somewhere that Sony specified the laser for 30 year use !
I too have a Sony a 338ESD CD player.
Bought at a Scouts fundraising sale for $10 as it wouldn't load CDs anymore. Found a belt that was about the right size to replace the obviously stretched tray operating belt and all is good.
It has been used daily for several years now and I read somewhere that Sony specified the laser for 30 year use !
Hi Drone7,
Never believe claims like that (a 30 year life). A Laser diode is an LED, its life is entirely dependent on how much current it sees and operating temperature. Three beam systems have to run at higher output. So it doesn't matter what they claim, it is a part like all the others. Laser diodes becomes less efficient as they age, requiring more current. That accelerates failure. They have an APC (Automatic Power Control) circuit to maintain output level, so it increases the current as the head ages. You're allowed a 10% increase over the Iop level before you condemn the head.
This is not to say it isn't an excellent head, Sony made some of the best. But one thinks of Akai's 17.5 year "glass head". Complete bold faced lie. It was a Ferrite head and wore just a bit better than normal, except it would also chip in the gaps. It just didn't appear to wear. In Canada, Akai didn't back the warranty up, but you also couldn't get the rest of the parts needed for the machine at 7 or 8 years. The fact that Ferrite heads also perform far worse than normal or Sendust heads didn't matter it seems.
It's just "feel good" hype. I do prefer Sony or the old NEC transports, so I'm not coming down on them. But, you have to think about what you read instead of just accepting it.
Never believe claims like that (a 30 year life). A Laser diode is an LED, its life is entirely dependent on how much current it sees and operating temperature. Three beam systems have to run at higher output. So it doesn't matter what they claim, it is a part like all the others. Laser diodes becomes less efficient as they age, requiring more current. That accelerates failure. They have an APC (Automatic Power Control) circuit to maintain output level, so it increases the current as the head ages. You're allowed a 10% increase over the Iop level before you condemn the head.
This is not to say it isn't an excellent head, Sony made some of the best. But one thinks of Akai's 17.5 year "glass head". Complete bold faced lie. It was a Ferrite head and wore just a bit better than normal, except it would also chip in the gaps. It just didn't appear to wear. In Canada, Akai didn't back the warranty up, but you also couldn't get the rest of the parts needed for the machine at 7 or 8 years. The fact that Ferrite heads also perform far worse than normal or Sendust heads didn't matter it seems.
It's just "feel good" hype. I do prefer Sony or the old NEC transports, so I'm not coming down on them. But, you have to think about what you read instead of just accepting it.
Yes, the dolby board has been a source of much wailing and gnashing of teeth around the world. There are a few modern dolby chips but no one seems to have worked out a suitable substitute fix yet.
Many just bypass it I think, but lose a little functionality, while there's a harder bypass scheme I saw with 62 vias added to the stripped board, which is perhaps better.
Some gain is lost, but I don't think it matters much.
I bought mine a few years ago, before I knew about the dolby board - lack of research on my part - else I'd have bought the 8080, but as I don't mind DIY it doesn't really matter, it's just the time required to do a subtle conversion to 8080 specs - probably a little project in itself if/when it does start playing up!
I spent a while soldering up the tiny wires that lead from the tweeter frame, back to the tweeter coils on a pair of these my brother used. He didn't even notice they'd melted LOL, it was fiddly but doable.
So I'd bear in mind they probably don't like clipping, and check / replace the capacitor in the crossovers to be sure 🙂
Pioneer made them nice and easy to get to (not my photo), and nicely in airflow too so a heatsink might be OTT, but I'll see how well they go on! Good idea for the heatpaste, I'll see how hot they get with my IR temperature sensor..
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Hi Globulator,
All Dolby chips have very high distortion. Every one. Studio Dolby decoders and encoders are far better, but they are horrendously expensive. I am thinking of sticking a small Op Amp gain board and bypassing the signals through it. Fixed gain, low distortion.
The amplifier design in the db models is far better than the 8080 and 9090 models, so it was a real shame they ran all signals through the Dolby boards, all the time. Absolutely, bypass the Dolby signal path. They look really nice, don't they?
In the Pioneer, yeah. Use a TO-126 case part. Whatever you can get in your area that is a real part and not a renumbered fake. Low current, high voltage (50 mA is fine). If it runs warm, you can attach a small heat sink to it. As an example, I would probably look at a 2SC3423 or similar.
All Dolby chips have very high distortion. Every one. Studio Dolby decoders and encoders are far better, but they are horrendously expensive. I am thinking of sticking a small Op Amp gain board and bypassing the signals through it. Fixed gain, low distortion.
The amplifier design in the db models is far better than the 8080 and 9090 models, so it was a real shame they ran all signals through the Dolby boards, all the time. Absolutely, bypass the Dolby signal path. They look really nice, don't they?
In the Pioneer, yeah. Use a TO-126 case part. Whatever you can get in your area that is a real part and not a renumbered fake. Low current, high voltage (50 mA is fine). If it runs warm, you can attach a small heat sink to it. As an example, I would probably look at a 2SC3423 or similar.
Yes I see now, quasi vs complementary, so the db model would have to be the one..
Yes, I like the old receivers that light up when switched on. The Pioneer silver is good too, I have 4 of those LOL, but the glow from the dark always looks very cool.
As there appears to be no true bypass, I agree.
There's a lot of recent discussion on this, perhaps these receivers are being used more, and therefore breaking.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/f-2655-mods-and-board-design-info.1002011/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/fix-that-sansui-9090db-with-a-bad-db-board.1066880/
I looked at the circuits, the schematic and the PCB layout in the manual: one 'small' problem with working out how this dolby board works is that the ribbon pins are not numbered consecutively, some of the pin numbers for the small connectors are labelled wrongly 46<->44, 40<->42 etc, and the schematic doesn't actually match the PCB in other ways either, e.g. R901 - R904 are not on the PCB (in the manual).
Looking at the schematic, it looks like the ribbon cable should be desoldered and discarded, and that various pins along the F-2654 ribbon connector holes (now sans ribbon) need jumping, and then it should become a normal, non dolby receiver 🙂
This, at least, is my current theory.
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Well, no offense to AudioKarma. I am a member and can't stomach the place. It is swimming in misinformation and non-professionals acting like they know what they are doing. Some information can be helpful, but much is really bad advice.
What you need to do is figure out signal in, and signal out. Measure the gain between those points and then bypass that path. Nothing else matters. Figuring out exactly where the signal runs is a total waste of time. It is possible the tuner path may be different. Just watch for it.
This is a job I have planned for when I have time for myself. Not a priority. I should have sold it years ago when it was worth something.
What you need to do is figure out signal in, and signal out. Measure the gain between those points and then bypass that path. Nothing else matters. Figuring out exactly where the signal runs is a total waste of time. It is possible the tuner path may be different. Just watch for it.
This is a job I have planned for when I have time for myself. Not a priority. I should have sold it years ago when it was worth something.
Thanks @Globulator ! 🙂
Yes I had four, now only three : I stupidly sold my mint 4240, I should never have done that 😒 !
OK, one of these days, I'll find another one 4230 or 4240... 😏
In my little Auditorium, the 2250B :
Also the 2270, at left, 1st level :
The 2015 in my second Audio system :
My "most antique" that remains now is my BELL 2420 from 1964 :
T
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Nice pile 'o gear. Certainly a lot of variabilities. The Braun speakers were very nice back then.
My Lord, so much to know, truth buried deep within experience. Who would've thunk Akai's GX heads meh, Marantz's Dolby circuits always in the signal path, avoid the 4-chennel units - so what else with antique gear being far from ideal? I guess the hype lives on to this day, with the truth hiding just underneath.
lol!
Yes, they did a very effective selling job with adverts.
Not all Marantz units had the Dolby in the signal path, and not all brands. Where you find a Dolby chip in the signal path, you also have a lot of distortion. Didn't matter that much with tape because of the intrinsic distortion, but for a receiver or amplifier! Yes, it absolutely does matter.
Well, the "Glass head" is Ferrite. Just like the heads Nakamichi used were Sendust (called Crystal alloy). I used to install Sendust heads in some Marantz and Teac units, adjust things and calibrate them. Always a performance boost. Earlier Marantz units also had an EQ peaking adjust for playback. All other manufacturers that used Ferrite heads changed later to Sendust or back to "butter" heads. Performance and sound quality was far better. Ferrite heads overload really easy, their flux density ability is pretty marginal for recording use.
Yes, they did a very effective selling job with adverts.
Not all Marantz units had the Dolby in the signal path, and not all brands. Where you find a Dolby chip in the signal path, you also have a lot of distortion. Didn't matter that much with tape because of the intrinsic distortion, but for a receiver or amplifier! Yes, it absolutely does matter.
Well, the "Glass head" is Ferrite. Just like the heads Nakamichi used were Sendust (called Crystal alloy). I used to install Sendust heads in some Marantz and Teac units, adjust things and calibrate them. Always a performance boost. Earlier Marantz units also had an EQ peaking adjust for playback. All other manufacturers that used Ferrite heads changed later to Sendust or back to "butter" heads. Performance and sound quality was far better. Ferrite heads overload really easy, their flux density ability is pretty marginal for recording use.
Thanks @anatech !
I restored all of them, to a more or less extent of course, depending on what they needed. I am from the Leo Fender "if it works, don't fix it" camp...
But a notable number of those elements are DIY design and building, always compact units, in a "Retro Cool" style, as named by my Audio friends.
The BrAun L-500/1 have been bought new in 1971 by my Parents. Unduly neglected for long, they decided to trash them recently, and immediately I said "STOP, let me do an autopsy !"
The original look was this - when they bought them :
Unfortunately, the aluminium grilles were marred, unpresentable, speakers were clogged by dust, my parents had taped the wires on the cabs... Awful !
Pictures once the grille removed and the speakers de-dusted :
I expected the speakers to be dead... Nope : in full working condition, no damage on their cones, domes or supsensions... Amazing !
I cleaned and resprayed the cabs, built a set of removable grids, and those venerable BrAun speakers, designed by Dieter Rams, thank me nom by singing with a nice, round and smooth voice...
Those were the specs in 1971 :
T
They look like the Peerless dome tweeter.
I have worked on many Braun speakers, the self powered ones were very nice. Large enclosures the right size for the woofers. Your speakers will be very clear and smooth.
You did a very nice job of bringing them back.
BTW, my favorite guitar amps by far are Fenders. You can get almost any sound you want from them. I don't play (wish I could), but the guitarists I dealt with made them sing! Try using 7581A instead of 6L6GC. Same characteristics. 35 watt plates. They last longer. The Electroharmonix 6L6GC look like 7581A inside, no hum or red plates ever with them.
I have worked on many Braun speakers, the self powered ones were very nice. Large enclosures the right size for the woofers. Your speakers will be very clear and smooth.
You did a very nice job of bringing them back.
BTW, my favorite guitar amps by far are Fenders. You can get almost any sound you want from them. I don't play (wish I could), but the guitarists I dealt with made them sing! Try using 7581A instead of 6L6GC. Same characteristics. 35 watt plates. They last longer. The Electroharmonix 6L6GC look like 7581A inside, no hum or red plates ever with them.
Very interesting, I didn't know Braun made speakers at all - I'll look out for them now.
They look remarkably similar for my Grundig Box 550, even down to the metal grills - I guess that's a german thing.
The tweeters are similar too, external wires - good for cooling.
Mine sadly haven't got the history of yours, I picked them up a few years ago from the tip, and recapped them in 2016. To most people they look very ordinary, they are true 'sleepers' 😀
I'm a big fan of the small german speakers, they sound extremely good and were quality built. 🙂
Very nice, good to see lots of tubes too, a proper Aladdins cave, like a mini museum!
The quadrophonic stuff was perhaps the prettiest of all receivers, there's a place in Birmingham, England that seems to specialise in Marantz vintage gear - but don't look, because it's all too tempting 😀
I saw some quadrophonic LPs advertised too, but have no idea how they work, also I think there were a few different standards.
I did also see some great monster turntables. I'm always a bit puzzled by most turntables - the concept being a stiff beam between the arm base and the spindle - with a bit of isolating suspension, but few seem to be designed to that level.
E.g. my Sansui SR222 is generally just bits bolted to a bit of MDF - I added a bit of bracing, but was left wondering why the original designer didn't do this when it was built 😀
Maybe Grundig or Braun also made turntables? 🙂
