True of many "hobby" forums... sort of digression to the FB model of "information" sharing, where populism rules supreme, eh?
and let's fact it rollers are going to roll and glommers are going to glom and they will be convinced of the superiority of their changes even if they have royally mucked it up.
True. Subjective can go too far.
For hi-fi at least objective can go too far as well when it comes to entertainment or simply HID design. Goals of steady-state sine wave testing for lowest noise and lowest distortion are objective for sure, but don't always serve the end goal of hi-fi audio: entertainment and enjoyment. Just like eye-popping video displays which may not look exactly like reality; they may still be what the end user likes and wants.
Be nice if some happy balance could be found here.
Opamp rolling and cable cults offer an entrance point to a more scientific approach of audio. Yet, I would be interested to see the Venn diagrams of antivaccers and the fans of quantum purifiers. And then offer comfort to the lone soul left out of the overlap.
There may be genetic factors at work which no amount of education can fix.
There may be genetic factors at work which no amount of education can fix.
Now show me someone who has claimed those are the only tests that need to be done!
That's most often what seems to get posted as evidence of objectivity.
Would you say Amir's measurements are sufficient in your view?
Would you say Amir's measurements are sufficient in your view?
where does it get posted other than by subjectivists setting up a trap? I've never studied Amir's measurements so I can't comment. He is selling a cult and I don't do cults.
JA wrote an article a few years ago 'Objectivists Fantasy vs Subjectivists Reality' which I think captures the whole audio zeitgeist perfectly. The best example of that is the other A site. Profoundly measurement based but they still have subjective preferences.
If someone says they prefer overpriced hand wound capacitors, a certain single malt or autoerotic asphyxiation to help them enjoy music I won't argue. It's a preference. It's saying something is 'better' that gets my hackles up.
'Better' is reserved for measurements? What if 9 out of 10 people 'prefer' something, say, a particular spaghetti sauce? Its not 'better' if you don't have a machine to measure why?
I would think the root cause is the new post factual society we are heading into.
Not really better the sauce is, it just please an average.
Isn't it the same principle you can find in standardized food chain?
I can't measure it but i can evaluate the quality of source components and how the 'sauce' is cooked. ( and there i can judge precisely and objectively following technical evaluation).
From this i can say if it is better or not than what an 'artisan' could do...
Same apply to audio: mass is not always right (or wrong).
I find the chat in same spirit of the old forum. This is nice.
Isn't it the same principle you can find in standardized food chain?
I can't measure it but i can evaluate the quality of source components and how the 'sauce' is cooked. ( and there i can judge precisely and objectively following technical evaluation).
From this i can say if it is better or not than what an 'artisan' could do...
Same apply to audio: mass is not always right (or wrong).
I find the chat in same spirit of the old forum. This is nice.
If you define 'better' as 'I love it more' it's really not an objective judgement.
It's still purely personal preference.
Jan
It's still purely personal preference.
Jan
Bad example as food scientists work very hard to make every jar of xyz sauce taste identical with labs full of gear.
If you prefer brand X and I prefer brand y that doesn't make either of them 'better' it's a pure preference.
Could be a problem since most existing definitions of 'better' seem to allow for it to apply in a variety of contexts. Some synonyms of 'better' from OED: "superior, finer, of higher quality, greater, in a different class, one step ahead. more acceptable, preferable, recommended."
Aside, and I blame Syn08 for this, on first reading this thread I was then humming tracks from an album I have not listened to since 1990 by a possibly little known punk band Subhumans. The tracks were buried in my mind and something dredged them up. Funny how long term storage works.