limono @ If you now think Altec is so bad why write in this thread, start a new thread with what you like and make new friends........
I am a happy owner of a pair of 604E super duplex since a couple of years I bought them very cheap completely original condition I have changed xo bigger box etc. But have always had a nagging feeling that there is more to do, maybe I make others upset but there must be more than Altec's boxes that could do. I know I am in deep water and Altec´s boxes are popular and are good but we know more today so it should be possible to improve / develop to new levels, I have seen that the Japanese have some ideas but you never see building plans how they do them. I am reading all the old papers on hornbuilding that I have used before for my different builds, it will be fun to see what I come up with.
Anders
I am a happy owner of a pair of 604E super duplex since a couple of years I bought them very cheap completely original condition I have changed xo bigger box etc. But have always had a nagging feeling that there is more to do, maybe I make others upset but there must be more than Altec's boxes that could do. I know I am in deep water and Altec´s boxes are popular and are good but we know more today so it should be possible to improve / develop to new levels, I have seen that the Japanese have some ideas but you never see building plans how they do them. I am reading all the old papers on hornbuilding that I have used before for my different builds, it will be fun to see what I come up with.
Anders
I dunno, seems like they made a few that were half decent. Some great ones, too.
For example ? Which stock Altecs are great for classical ? My friend has stock domestic VOT , I had at home 14 , VALENCIA and FLAMENCO .Wasted a little time listening to 19 .Before the senile fool in Stereophile born again
Shindo convert and a " music lovers " category emerged nobody bothered with that stuff but those little Asian men in their small boxes .Hoarding and putting huge boxes a couple feet apart . Gimme that effing 511 or 811 with stock crossover wide open and its the best speaker for playing electric rock and some jazz .It just sounds electrifing and alive . With classical ? Nah, a pure joke. I'm not sure why perpetuate the myth? Altec made some very decent drivers and the horns can be equalised but the sound quality of its home line speakers is objectively rather poor and the most enterntaining thing is that the "music lovers " often insist on complete originality of the design. You get EV , Klipsh , Jensen and there is NOTHING to mod in those vintage speakers .A ready to go domestic product from the engineering genius of Altec ? A sore joke .Stop glorifing garage blasters for roofers and just take them for what they are .
When I hard domestic VOT for a first time I though the owner is playing the tape backwards. I entered the room late , when the audio meet was already going on and I thought that I stepped into the room in the middle of the joke. It was a music transformed into isobaric pressure the way you year it blasting from the stadium a couple of blocks away.
My first Altec was Santana . Before the song ended I took it apart and sold the drivers , honk, boom and hash from the tweeter. Second Santana shared its fate with the first one but instead of selling the biflex I put it into OB baffle and presto , a very nice driver , easy to live with . Needs bass and tweeter. Than came model 14 with famous elbow horn . All the rage from a couple off years back since mighty Shindo used it in his speakers and Joe Esmilla in his, Wall of sound, poor imaging on the stand or without . Midbass hump , cabinet coloration , poor midrange and for some reason tended to be aggressive in upper range . A ghetto blaster .
Fast forward some years , Art Dooddly discovers Jesus and brings stock Valencia/Flamenco into his room waxing poetically about qualities of hard suspended woofers with only a minor critique of a speaker's performance . Like everybody an their grandma, first opportunity I buy a pair of Valencias . Oh those pristine Altec drivers presented themselves like a bags of $$$$. I hook them up and I spit the tea laughing . I laughed for two days than I put 515 instead of 416 . Little more life in dead otherwise midrange . I took the wires of 806 driver and put 2441 in Edgarhorn on the top and I can enjoy the setup one more day before I pack all the shebang and send it express to Asia . Anybody interested in Valencia Cabs?
I visited local friends with Joe Esmilla setups and it firmly cemented my opinion about the whole Altec crowd. Altec engineers unlike folks from other speaker houses succeeded in creating the speakers where drivers fight against the cabinets in very obvious way. They were also very successful in killing most of the positive attributes of their own drivers. The tone of alnico woofers and shimmering quality of compression drivers. I remember the awe of my former GF when I hooked up 288c . Then I crossed it at 500 Hz and bye bye the charming prince. Altec 19 was just honky , boxy and ill behaved and when I listened to it , my mind was already set on Altecs. 803a is a stunning horn midbass woofer. Too fragile to use as DR. 288c is vintage superb when crossed around 1Khz , 515 is passable and a good compromise . 416 , 414 are a waste of time .
Altec Pa horns are great for electric guitar music and generally, blasting some energetic tunes through altec speaker in open space with capable amp is quite pleasant. None of the Altec's work with SET amps unless in NYC one bedroom apartment and BOSE in traditional box (vintage or new) is a far better choice for classical music than Altec.
The Altec circle of people is sooo old, soo effing old that it's hard to believe they are still able to hear half of the nonsense they pitch on the public forums. You really owe it to yourself to go around, visit some of them before chasing that Altec dream or before you listen to some Susumu Hiraga Toranaga zen explanation of his choices.
Of course even if there are polars and graphs and modeling and all the collective knowledge you still mostly end up with a shxxit because the speaker is modeled with elevator music in mind .
The famous threat documenting 14 years of struggle around designing of ultimate HE speaker ending up in using 416 in a dead zone of 800 Hz?? Two way?? Why not employ Troels who single handedly designs 250 speakers a year -all of them successful ?
On a positive side I'd say there are still plenty of worse speakers than Altec and when you listen to 8" for a whole life, or a crummy joke of a big woofer from a cheap consumer audio and switch to proper vintage pro 12" and 15" unit the difference is staggering and a Honeymoon pleasant. This is ONLY my own experience and opinion because I'm naturally opinionated and unlike some I don't care if you buy vintage Altec's from me or not . Resale value IS THE MAIN VALUE of Altec speakers.
Buy Spendor for classical music , regular High-End speakers to cure your small pinkerton or end your marriage and enter the lonely DIY path.
Happy Sunday folks!
My first Altec was Santana . Before the song ended I took it apart and sold the drivers , honk, boom and hash from the tweeter. Second Santana shared its fate with the first one but instead of selling the biflex I put it into OB baffle and presto , a very nice driver , easy to live with . Needs bass and tweeter. Than came model 14 with famous elbow horn . All the rage from a couple off years back since mighty Shindo used it in his speakers and Joe Esmilla in his, Wall of sound, poor imaging on the stand or without . Midbass hump , cabinet coloration , poor midrange and for some reason tended to be aggressive in upper range . A ghetto blaster .
Fast forward some years , Art Dooddly discovers Jesus and brings stock Valencia/Flamenco into his room waxing poetically about qualities of hard suspended woofers with only a minor critique of a speaker's performance . Like everybody an their grandma, first opportunity I buy a pair of Valencias . Oh those pristine Altec drivers presented themselves like a bags of $$$$. I hook them up and I spit the tea laughing . I laughed for two days than I put 515 instead of 416 . Little more life in dead otherwise midrange . I took the wires of 806 driver and put 2441 in Edgarhorn on the top and I can enjoy the setup one more day before I pack all the shebang and send it express to Asia . Anybody interested in Valencia Cabs?
I visited local friends with Joe Esmilla setups and it firmly cemented my opinion about the whole Altec crowd. Altec engineers unlike folks from other speaker houses succeeded in creating the speakers where drivers fight against the cabinets in very obvious way. They were also very successful in killing most of the positive attributes of their own drivers. The tone of alnico woofers and shimmering quality of compression drivers. I remember the awe of my former GF when I hooked up 288c . Then I crossed it at 500 Hz and bye bye the charming prince. Altec 19 was just honky , boxy and ill behaved and when I listened to it , my mind was already set on Altecs. 803a is a stunning horn midbass woofer. Too fragile to use as DR. 288c is vintage superb when crossed around 1Khz , 515 is passable and a good compromise . 416 , 414 are a waste of time .
Altec Pa horns are great for electric guitar music and generally, blasting some energetic tunes through altec speaker in open space with capable amp is quite pleasant. None of the Altec's work with SET amps unless in NYC one bedroom apartment and BOSE in traditional box (vintage or new) is a far better choice for classical music than Altec.
The Altec circle of people is sooo old, soo effing old that it's hard to believe they are still able to hear half of the nonsense they pitch on the public forums. You really owe it to yourself to go around, visit some of them before chasing that Altec dream or before you listen to some Susumu Hiraga Toranaga zen explanation of his choices.
Of course even if there are polars and graphs and modeling and all the collective knowledge you still mostly end up with a shxxit because the speaker is modeled with elevator music in mind .
The famous threat documenting 14 years of struggle around designing of ultimate HE speaker ending up in using 416 in a dead zone of 800 Hz?? Two way?? Why not employ Troels who single handedly designs 250 speakers a year -all of them successful ?
On a positive side I'd say there are still plenty of worse speakers than Altec and when you listen to 8" for a whole life, or a crummy joke of a big woofer from a cheap consumer audio and switch to proper vintage pro 12" and 15" unit the difference is staggering and a Honeymoon pleasant. This is ONLY my own experience and opinion because I'm naturally opinionated and unlike some I don't care if you buy vintage Altec's from me or not . Resale value IS THE MAIN VALUE of Altec speakers.
Buy Spendor for classical music , regular High-End speakers to cure your small pinkerton or end your marriage and enter the lonely DIY path.
Happy Sunday folks!
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No , I listen to all kinds of music but the last few post were concerning a classical music. I'm sure one can build a nice system or a world class system if that means anything around Altec components with considerable effort and skill but none of the stock domestic Altec speakers are any good in AS-IS form. Opposite, they are horrible. Take vintage ElectroVoice and you can have a wonderful speaker system from the get go. Without even messing up with crossover parts. And to prove to you that I'm totally bonkers if you're not convinced yet I think electrolytic capacitors (occasionally with mylar cap bypass ) are the most musical and appropriate caps in speakers crossovers unless you're ready to spend big on specialized oil caps.
Hmm, OK. Can't say my experience relates to yours, as there are a least a couple of stock Altec speakers I like on classical music. Vintage EV? Can't say I've heard one I liked, although some of their 21st century PA speakers sound pretty good.
That said, there are some things Altec did that I have to scratch my head over. As much as I like the A7 (and love the A5) in stock form it sounds lousy. The ports aren't tuned right, the flares ring and buzz and the crossover isn't helping anything. However with a little work it can sound extraordinary. In stock form they are bad enough to make me wonder why they didn't do the few simple things to make them better.
If you are demanding, there aren't many speakers that do justice to large scale classical music. Doesn't matter what brand or era.
That said, there are some things Altec did that I have to scratch my head over. As much as I like the A7 (and love the A5) in stock form it sounds lousy. The ports aren't tuned right, the flares ring and buzz and the crossover isn't helping anything. However with a little work it can sound extraordinary. In stock form they are bad enough to make me wonder why they didn't do the few simple things to make them better.
If you are demanding, there aren't many speakers that do justice to large scale classical music. Doesn't matter what brand or era.
It's all good Pano . I believe you have an exceptionally performing Altec system based on VOTT platform. Once, I hear a great performing system like that I will eat my sh...it like I'm forced to do it from time to time . Several years ago I bought Spendor SP2 . I could not believe how poor that speaker was so I sold it quickly. Later, a local Harbeth dealer was hosting an introductory event to demo their line of speakers and mainly the flagship M40.1 was played. I could almost see that 12"plastic woofer bending and had a taste of plastic in my mouth for a week.
How can THAT be any reference people are selling their wives for ??I was confident in my opinion on those British "scammers" selling plastic floppy crap in cardboard boxes for gold. Some more years went by I was unsuccessfully messing up with horns (adding channels ), bought stop gap Living Voice speakers , Audio Note speakers , Rehdeko speakers (actually a fine ones in "out there" category) A couple of months ago relatively cheap pair of Spendor SP1/2e appeared on the market so I thought to myself I will flip them for a quick profit. The same flimsy plastic 8" crossed at 3Khz to a pair of sorry dome tweeters housed in a cardboard enclosure. I'm absolutely charmed and bewitched by easy going and non fussy nature of those speakers and that for a change I can forget about a sound for a moment and listen to music , have some tea , think about the message not the messenger .
I can't see myself selling those things ever. So, once I hear an Altec system performing I will absolutely drop all the BS and join the choir.
How can THAT be any reference people are selling their wives for ??I was confident in my opinion on those British "scammers" selling plastic floppy crap in cardboard boxes for gold. Some more years went by I was unsuccessfully messing up with horns (adding channels ), bought stop gap Living Voice speakers , Audio Note speakers , Rehdeko speakers (actually a fine ones in "out there" category) A couple of months ago relatively cheap pair of Spendor SP1/2e appeared on the market so I thought to myself I will flip them for a quick profit. The same flimsy plastic 8" crossed at 3Khz to a pair of sorry dome tweeters housed in a cardboard enclosure. I'm absolutely charmed and bewitched by easy going and non fussy nature of those speakers and that for a change I can forget about a sound for a moment and listen to music , have some tea , think about the message not the messenger .
I can't see myself selling those things ever. So, once I hear an Altec system performing I will absolutely drop all the BS and join the choir.
Well, I use 16 of the 414 in my setup from 30 to 1000 hz, and I like the sound of them. They are GPA's, but cant be so very different from Altec's?
I have owned two sets of Spendor, and I also have lissened to some other Spendors too, but I think they sound dull.
Different ****, different taste.
Very nice set of speakers . In the past I also judged Spendors as dull. The thing is for a HE speakers I think Altecs are sort of dull and should be crossed lover than 500 Hz . And the 414 does not improve in midrange over 416. This and the fact that a lot of people insist on driving them with 2a3 SEt's after Joe Esmilla blog . They sound anemic and bloated and those people do not dwell in chamber music either but the electric kinds where bass and drums and PRAT is rather important .
GPA kits I measured were 93dB efficient and had a lower FS than vintage Altecs but they were just GPA recone VS original drivers and those speakers were manufactured for 50 years with many small variations I assume.
GPA kits I measured were 93dB efficient and had a lower FS than vintage Altecs but they were just GPA recone VS original drivers and those speakers were manufactured for 50 years with many small variations I assume.
The best Altec's (sort of) I've heard, at the time, was the UREI monitors. This was in the room at the AES show back in the late 80's. Now, they were not pure Altec of course but they sounded great. I don't remember what model they were. I just stood there listening to Steely Dan.
That was my first time at the AES show. Man, it was awesome My friend is a recording engineer and took me with him.
That was my first time at the AES show. Man, it was awesome
My friend is a recording engineer and took me with him.