One of my other favorites. FF85wk has a few ringing issues (by far the best behaved of the FFxx5wk), something i work to ameriolate with my pre-EnABL mods. Once tweaked up, it, and the A5.2/3 are VERY close. Stock the warts on the FF85 come to the fore. Lack of top is not an isue it has. While not as extended as the earlier FF85k (FF85wk only specs to 25k), but the precursor driver was a bit hot.
Of course, being 3” drivers, limited in bass capability. Tha is fixable.
dave
Hello guys. I have similar issue with Alpair 7. I have had an experience with all generations: Alpair 7.1, 7.2, 7.3. My experience is that second generation have no this nasty resonance. I have the Alpairs in various enclosures: simple BR, Frugel Horn, classic MarKen. The room is also not an issue in this case - I listen in various environmentally different rooms. I think this resonance is not dependant on enclosure. Spend a lot of time truing to equalize the problem but without success. This resonance appears rarely and only with voices. When Iam listening to instrumental music I do not hear any irregularities. May be it is just the quality of the particular driver and not of the Alpair series or may be just my ears are too sensitive exactly to this.
Best regards
Andrej.
Best regards
Andrej.
Good point.
The screws fixing any driver can easily be overtightened which i and others have had which causes also sorts of issues.
I look at it as, tighten the screw just enuff to hold a real or imaginary washer from spinning.
dave
The Tripath was the first Class D chip amp to make waves. They can be decent (implementation has to be good) but newer chips and certainly things like uCD, ncore, ICEPower smoke them. And, i understand, having been toast for sometime, available Tripath chips are often counterfeits out there.
Do you have a really good Class A or AB amplifier?
dave
Do you have a really good Class A or AB amplifier?
dave
There are reasons we have zillions of drivers to choose from. It may well be that this driver is not suited for you guys.
In a simialr vein, we have 2 fairly distinct sets of voicing in the Alpair 10.3 (very simiar to A7.3) and A10p. The A10.3 is, technically, likely the more accuarte driver. But i moved out at least 2 x as many paper cone drivers.
Taste, room, and system all play a role, and that 1st one is, arguably, the most important.
It is unfortunate the the A7p did not share the voicing of the A6.2p/A10p, It still might suit better.
It is worth noting that the only distance between A7.2 and A7.2 was the moldd in super gasket, something that was discontinued part way thru the A7.3’s life, to just a stick on version — the baskets lost due to QC of the molded in gasket was too high. There are more versions of the A7.3 with larger differences
So there is really A7, A7.3 and now P7HD. 3 generations.
dave
You are right. The Alpair 10.2 has no any issue with resonances in my experience. But it is also differs from A7 in how the music appears in front of the listener (imaging?). Finally I ended up with Fostex FE108 sigmas in FH.3 with minimal stuffing and a notch around 3.5 kHz, Fostex FX 120 (also with notch) in a BR - very good. And the Alpair 7.3 now is in Metronome which initially was build for FE108 sigmas. And finally i have a lot of fun when building and tuning all those projects. Once again, thanks to all DIY collective for making available all those enclosures plans!!!
BR
Andrej.
BR
Andrej.
The biggest differences between the A10.2 and A10.3 are:
A10.3 does not go as low
A10.3 is more sensitive (this and the previous are directly linked by Hoffman’s law)
A10.3 has improved top, removing almost all of the Jordan HF ringinfg that was very evident in the A10.1 and has been being tamed as generations advance.
A10.3 almost reaches the same level of midtop and DDR of the A7.3.
A10.2 (other than the A12pw) is the MA drive rwith the most LF potential.
dave
A10.3 does not go as low
A10.3 is more sensitive (this and the previous are directly linked by Hoffman’s law)
A10.3 has improved top, removing almost all of the Jordan HF ringinfg that was very evident in the A10.1 and has been being tamed as generations advance.
A10.3 almost reaches the same level of midtop and DDR of the A7.3.
A10.2 (other than the A12pw) is the MA drive rwith the most LF potential.
dave
Thank you guys for your kind support 🙂
I've found some good point to check out, I'll report later
"Signal lost" I never over tight screw especially in MDF, but I'll try to loose them a bit anyway, you never know
Waxx, maybe I'm wrong, but I would rule out issues with my electronic; my chain consist in USB async DAC (self made), TA3020 amp (self made), and they sound way better than any other commercial components tried in the past; anyway I have same problem connecting to my Onkyo in the living room system
About loudspeaker I had Mission, KEF, Indiana Line and a DIY open baffle, all of them didn't give me any issue on this same chain
Joensd, sorry I misunderstood your point; no I didn't care about baffle step compensation, and I'm aware that without a baffle you have thinner bass/upper bass and maybe lower mids, but do you think this could account for the harsh voice?
The rest of the music is quite nice, and very detailed, and I can easily fill in lower octaves with the sub
The matter is not only with 'ss' 'ssh' that really stand out like flash, but an overall artificial voice reproduction
When I tried to put in a box with a 8" wide baffle I had the same result 😕
I'm glad to see someone else reporting similar experience, maybe it's just individual ear sensitivity to particular frequency, but I'm not ready to give up yet 🙂
I've found some good point to check out, I'll report later
"Signal lost" I never over tight screw especially in MDF, but I'll try to loose them a bit anyway, you never know
Waxx, maybe I'm wrong, but I would rule out issues with my electronic; my chain consist in USB async DAC (self made), TA3020 amp (self made), and they sound way better than any other commercial components tried in the past; anyway I have same problem connecting to my Onkyo in the living room system
About loudspeaker I had Mission, KEF, Indiana Line and a DIY open baffle, all of them didn't give me any issue on this same chain
Joensd, sorry I misunderstood your point; no I didn't care about baffle step compensation, and I'm aware that without a baffle you have thinner bass/upper bass and maybe lower mids, but do you think this could account for the harsh voice?
The rest of the music is quite nice, and very detailed, and I can easily fill in lower octaves with the sub
The matter is not only with 'ss' 'ssh' that really stand out like flash, but an overall artificial voice reproduction
When I tried to put in a box with a 8" wide baffle I had the same result 😕
I'm glad to see someone else reporting similar experience, maybe it's just individual ear sensitivity to particular frequency, but I'm not ready to give up yet 🙂
I have never used BSC on the A7.3.
It is worth noting that there may be some in our big WAWs as the (active) XO is right in the range where turin gthe bass amps up is effectively a BSC dial.
dave
It is worth noting that there may be some in our big WAWs as the (active) XO is right in the range where turin gthe bass amps up is effectively a BSC dial.
dave
This is the object
I know I know, is way too short for a TL 😀, I have to replace the vertical pipe with a longer one
This is the FR with reflex (under the foot pad) closed, blue line with a squared cardboard baffle approx 12x10", red without baffle; zobel made no difference and is quite superimposed
And this is the FR with reflex port open
I know I know, is way too short for a TL 😀, I have to replace the vertical pipe with a longer one
This is the FR with reflex (under the foot pad) closed, blue line with a squared cardboard baffle approx 12x10", red without baffle; zobel made no difference and is quite superimposed
And this is the FR with reflex port open
That pipe is too small. We used the same for Alpair 5, it didn’t work out either.
And your plots suggest nothing below 200 hz, that can definitely cause issues. And the bump at about 700 Hz would exacerbate that.
The stuff up top is seen in some samples. There have been various notches used, waxx has one on his A10.3.
You first have to solve the bass issue. You can see th epipe ripples in your second plot.
dave
And your plots suggest nothing below 200 hz, that can definitely cause issues. And the bump at about 700 Hz would exacerbate that.
The stuff up top is seen in some samples. There have been various notches used, waxx has one on his A10.3.
You first have to solve the bass issue. You can see th epipe ripples in your second plot.
dave
that pipe is the worst shape for diffraction
Attachments
This is the experimental cardboard baffle, but this not cure the problem
Also I just realized the soundstage is very vague and confused, you can 'see' the music coming from loudspeakers 🙁
There is something very wrong here but I'm not able to catch it
Also I just realized the soundstage is very vague and confused, you can 'see' the music coming from loudspeakers 🙁
There is something very wrong here but I'm not able to catch it
What frequency? I've lived with a pair of these for years and never thought they needed a notch anywhere.
jeff
Ok Dave, I have to try first a baffle step compensator, maybe the metallic flavour is a subjective perception due to the unbalanced FR
If it doesn't work I throw away those pipe work
If it doesn't work I throw away those pipe work
Too small you mean cross section or lenght?
That bump at 700 Hz could well be the culprit, don't know how to kill it, could be caused by the enclosure?
Cross section.
I expect a lot of your problems could be the enclosure.
If you look at the scan adason posts (from my photocopied copy of Olsen), 2nd row, 1st picture. Where the ripple occurs is directly related to the baffle width.
2540/1270/635/318 Hz are related to the A7.3 bezel width.
dave
I expect a lot of your problems could be the enclosure.
If you look at the scan adason posts (from my photocopied copy of Olsen), 2nd row, 1st picture. Where the ripple occurs is directly related to the baffle width.
2540/1270/635/318 Hz are related to the A7.3 bezel width.
dave
That baffle is a good start, but the abrupt end at the edge is problematic. It should extend back for a while (as it would in a heavily chamfered box.
dave
... I throw away those pipe work
Look like a good source of large BR vents.
dave
😀 ok Dave, good suggestion.
Thanks for your input; in my mind I'd rather build a spherical enclosure for the speaker at the pipe end, but it's over my woodwork capability.
Thanks for your input; in my mind I'd rather build a spherical enclosure for the speaker at the pipe end, but it's over my woodwork capability.