Hello folks,
after reading many positive reviews I decided to go for a pair of Mark Audio Alpair 7 gen 3 in a transmission line built with 5" PVC pipes
While the build process was fun and easy, the sonic results is quite disappointing, also after 100+ hours of break in
The problem is in the voice reproduction, very tinny, harsh and metallic, it resemble the 80's voice synthesizer, you can hear it well off axis, it's still present standing behind the speaker
To fight the problem I tried without success:
- 3 different amps, 2 tripath based and an Onkyo amp
- dump pipe internal volume with fibers
- zobel network
Wondering the cause could be some resonance in the cylindrical enclosure, I put the speakers in box enclosure, but same result
Then I tried a low pass filter fc 4Khz to check if the metallic timbre is caused by that nasty 10dB peak around 10 Khz, but the metallic flavour is still there while the high treble went off.
Very confused, maybe the resonance is in the mids region?
I can't see from measurement made with my behringer 8000
It seem I'm the only one in trouble with this speaker, I thought maybe it's just me, but my wife also report the same unpleasant timbre in voice, both male and female
Any suggestion will be very appreciated
Thanks
after reading many positive reviews I decided to go for a pair of Mark Audio Alpair 7 gen 3 in a transmission line built with 5" PVC pipes
While the build process was fun and easy, the sonic results is quite disappointing, also after 100+ hours of break in
The problem is in the voice reproduction, very tinny, harsh and metallic, it resemble the 80's voice synthesizer, you can hear it well off axis, it's still present standing behind the speaker
To fight the problem I tried without success:
- 3 different amps, 2 tripath based and an Onkyo amp
- dump pipe internal volume with fibers
- zobel network
Wondering the cause could be some resonance in the cylindrical enclosure, I put the speakers in box enclosure, but same result
Then I tried a low pass filter fc 4Khz to check if the metallic timbre is caused by that nasty 10dB peak around 10 Khz, but the metallic flavour is still there while the high treble went off.
Very confused, maybe the resonance is in the mids region?
I can't see from measurement made with my behringer 8000
It seem I'm the only one in trouble with this speaker, I thought maybe it's just me, but my wife also report the same unpleasant timbre in voice, both male and female
Any suggestion will be very appreciated
Thanks
Yep
I had a similar issue years ago with a commercial speaker with tweeter resonating at 2.5 Khz, same harsh voice and cymbals, in the end I had to replace the tweeter and everything went right
But if this is the case for the alpair, I have no idea how to fix the problem
I had a similar issue years ago with a commercial speaker with tweeter resonating at 2.5 Khz, same harsh voice and cymbals, in the end I had to replace the tweeter and everything went right
But if this is the case for the alpair, I have no idea how to fix the problem
Maybe it's just me, but I always preferred paper cones rather than metallic ones...
Also, PVC pipe doesn't do it justice. I have built some "pipe speakers" in the past but the "pipe" was a paper one (from the big carpet roll). Just out of curiosity, I had tried the PVC pipe, with the same drivers, and was disappointed how much worse the PVC sounded.
But, in your case, it might be that you just don't like the sonic signture of that (metallic cone) driver. No help here, you might have to replace them with something else you like. Hope I'm wrong...
Also, PVC pipe doesn't do it justice. I have built some "pipe speakers" in the past but the "pipe" was a paper one (from the big carpet roll). Just out of curiosity, I had tried the PVC pipe, with the same drivers, and was disappointed how much worse the PVC sounded.
But, in your case, it might be that you just don't like the sonic signture of that (metallic cone) driver. No help here, you might have to replace them with something else you like. Hope I'm wrong...
Yeah, I'm coming to the same conclusion
In the box enclosure (8L) you have a different signature, fuller in the lower mid, but the harshness still persist; I also tried open baffle and even naked speaker
I built another fullrange project in the past based on fostex FF85WK, very nice and detailed midrange, but a little recessed and unrevealing in the upper treble, I hoped this little alpair could fill the gap, and it does in the treble
In the box enclosure (8L) you have a different signature, fuller in the lower mid, but the harshness still persist; I also tried open baffle and even naked speaker
I built another fullrange project in the past based on fostex FF85WK, very nice and detailed midrange, but a little recessed and unrevealing in the upper treble, I hoped this little alpair could fill the gap, and it does in the treble
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Already tried foobar graphic equalizer; I tried to lower 10dB at 10Khz, treble recessed but still metallic voice
Then I tried to lower step by step frequency between 2 and 5 Khz; while it become less apparent, the metallic flavour is still present
Then I tried to lower step by step frequency between 2 and 5 Khz; while it become less apparent, the metallic flavour is still present
That's news to me, I've run many 5in drive units well past 1.2KHz without the slightest difficulty. The 7.3 is a 4in drive unit however, so we are moving rather off-topic.
My A7.3´s sounded a bit harsh and metallic with a class-d tripath amp.
Current chipamp LM3886 is fine and that´s without proper break-in; just music.
Overall sound signature is very much influenced by the whole frequency response, meaning you could have a problem in another freq. range and not >=1k.
It´d be best to measure what´s going on and see if the response is "flat".
I had a peak at 1k on mine that I had to notch out but that was a predicted hump using it on an open baffle.
Did you care for baffle step?
Current chipamp LM3886 is fine and that´s without proper break-in; just music.
Overall sound signature is very much influenced by the whole frequency response, meaning you could have a problem in another freq. range and not >=1k.
It´d be best to measure what´s going on and see if the response is "flat".
I had a peak at 1k on mine that I had to notch out but that was a predicted hump using it on an open baffle.
Did you care for baffle step?
I haven´t heard that many fullrange speakers but the FF85WK is definitely one of the best mid-tweeters I´ve heard. Very detailed treble IMHO.
robyonekenoby,
You are sure there is no issue with your playback chain? Any other speakers you have at hand to try out with the same DAC/source, preamp, amps, and cables?
From memory the Alpair 7.3 did not have any issues with voice reproduction (as in making it sound tinny or metallic) when I tried it out few years back.
You are sure there is no issue with your playback chain? Any other speakers you have at hand to try out with the same DAC/source, preamp, amps, and cables?
From memory the Alpair 7.3 did not have any issues with voice reproduction (as in making it sound tinny or metallic) when I tried it out few years back.
Currently I own one T2020 and on TA3020 based amps, both very satisfactory with KEF Q100 and Indiana Line towers, especially the TA3020 is very dynamic and detailed
I suspected some kind of bad compatibility between tripath and alpair, but I had same results with my onkyo, it's a classic class B linear amp
About baffle diffraction, I tried with different shapes, also with rounded edge, but no difference
I suspected some kind of bad compatibility between tripath and alpair, but I had same results with my onkyo, it's a classic class B linear amp
About baffle diffraction, I tried with different shapes, also with rounded edge, but no difference
robyonekenoby,
I tried out Class D amps (Tripath, Ice Power, Hypex) with the the Alpair 7.3, and the sound was fine.
What are you using as hook up wire between the drivers an the speaker terminals? If any of the connections are loose, I fear there might be some unwanted distortions/resonances.
I tried out Class D amps (Tripath, Ice Power, Hypex) with the the Alpair 7.3, and the sound was fine.
What are you using as hook up wire between the drivers an the speaker terminals? If any of the connections are loose, I fear there might be some unwanted distortions/resonances.
I had a mounting problem with a CHP-70 that caused it to sound poor, somewhat tinny. I was distorting the basket with the mounting screws. Fixed that and it was better. Maybe you are having the same problem. Just something to rule out.
I did build a Marken 7.3 with this driver for a friend, and she uses it with an TINYSINE TSA3611, a cheap TPA3116 based amp and did not notice it. While testing i used my Marantz PM5004 (class AB transistor amp) and me heared it neighter. She uses it to listne to singer songwriter and folk music and she is very happy with it. It was only the case before the run in (wich is standard with all Mark Audio metallic drivers), but that is why MA ask to do a run in.
I myself uses the bigger version the 10.3 in two systems, and there i don't have it neighter. Nor did i hear it from other users i know.
So i think there is something wrong or with your speakers or with your electronics that causes this.
I myself uses the bigger version the 10.3 in two systems, and there i don't have it neighter. Nor did i hear it from other users i know.
So i think there is something wrong or with your speakers or with your electronics that causes this.
I meant do you have some kind of baffle step compensation, active or passive?
If not you will have a roll-off in SPL towards lower frequency from a freq. that is dictated by your baffle width. This in turn might also be the reason that treble sounds so pronounced.
If you just stick them in a pipe, you literally have no baffle that supports lower frequencies, roll-off will start at very high frequencies and thus you´ll definitely need some kind of BSC/EQ.
Then again, you would clearly see/have measured this with your Behringer 8000 😕
Maybe post your measurements and a picture of the speaker.
robyonekenoby,
You can download sound samples of the Alpair 7.3 from the following thread:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in drivers - Round 2
Download the files with "G-Clip" in the file name and change the file extension from *.asc to *.mp3.
Then you can listen to the quality of human voice and instruments played back on the Alpair 7.3. This is not a perfect system, but will give you some idea at least.
You can download sound samples of the Alpair 7.3 from the following thread:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in drivers - Round 2
Download the files with "G-Clip" in the file name and change the file extension from *.asc to *.mp3.
Then you can listen to the quality of human voice and instruments played back on the Alpair 7.3. This is not a perfect system, but will give you some idea at least.
A7.3 is a 4” driver. It has been my favorite for some time (well the A7.3eN actually). Hundreds of A7.3, this the first with this issue. I have to think it is either implementation, or the possibility of having aquired a pair that aren’t quite right.
dave