Okay, prove me wrong. Lets see pictures of the room the test was performed in; background sound level measurements, a frequency sweep measured at the listening position. Without those the 'test' they did was nothing more than a stunt.
And that leaves us open to assume pretty much anything we want about the conditions. I can't believe they had a clown making balloon animals in the corner while they ran the comparison.
I can produce test results that say all sodas taste the same if I don't tell you that the participants ate a habanero immediately before drinking the two sodas; and if you ignore that I hand selected the sodas as being the most similar to begin with. Then years later people can quote that test whenever anyone says they prefer coke to the store brand cola.
Of course I'm biased and open to everything, and do you know why?
Because I have tested them all and I picked the Best out of them (and this is my point of view) out for me, because It's My Life. and because I build amps, and I build a lot of other things.. and you?
I can't count the systems I have had listened to, in all my life, you? All the big names included.. And I do not know if you have a chance to do the same, but for me the train is still rolling,,, I still can listen to Krell, Mark Levinson, MacIntosh, and all there is out in the marked, also to PASS, and AUDIO RESEARCH and FM Radio, any time I like, - you?
And I'm still open for new, but there is a hurdle and this is rather high.. the rest which then is on the other side of that hurdle, is the rest of all what can be considered to take a closer look on I think.. So this we call in Switzerland "Personal Selections" and it never failed on me..
About the Driver, Senna is dead, died in 1994, RIP, and Schumacher is ill.. try to find one recently.. Whats about yesterday, what you think? I think he is English as well..
If a driver want to cheat, and cheat so that everybody thinks no one knows.And he did this 2 Times, two times against the other team and two times with the same trick, and two times the other driver lost the car because of him.
The first Driver was Alex Albon, at least his father is ENGLISH as well, and yesterday he did it again. The second driver is Max Verstappen, and I do not be a friend of Verstappen, but this guy who pushed him of the track, na, nothing for me..
And then he tries to cover his actions in "Race Accident" and the Stuarts were really cowardly pities, not to hand down a Stop and GO for one minute..
But this is OK for you I think..
There is none if you do not hear the difference.. I think, and then you neither deaf or deluded, but may just ignore the truth..
Do you know Jon Bon Jovi..? I'm sure you do, he has a song.. it's my life..
try to listen to that song...
If someone give me an advice. It must be really really stupid that I do not consider to take it. A stupid advice would be " hey jump off this bridge which is 300meter high.. No Way, why whatfor.. Stupid isn't it? But my advice to listen on low level to find more music, which may be hidden when you are listening loud..
So, I think the advice I gave, it's may nothing for you but I'm sure the one or other will try and then find out that this is really something to get some personal Profit out..
But beware, don't do it.. I think this is nothing for you.. don't waste you time..
So have a good time, and It's my life!
If you knew how right you are..
My case is somewhat differend thou..
the difference is the Characteristics of Amplifiers and the way these are build and if these are tubes transistors, Mosfet or just Chip amps, what under certain circumstances produce valuable sound but is for sure nothing if you want to listen to "deep Music". there are many reason for it and I outed myself already in an other thread about chip amps..
It's the way the pcb is layed out, it's the way what kind of solder you use, it's the way what kind of connection one uses... and many things more..
If I listen to an amp I never heard, the first thing I will aks, what kind of amplifier I listen to? unless the amp is Tubes, one never really knows what comes out of the speakers, which are the last part in the chain, and so for myself are the most important source which brings the sound to my ear..
But anyone is free todo as he is pleased, myself I'm too old to change, and actually I do not want to change anything, cause I have setup my life, and I'm happy with it,, it's nothing more to win out there, I have won more in my life that I ever expected I would..but this does not keep me from be open to everything which one could expect to turn out to be a gain for the future or the present.
This is my last answer in this matter..
Regards Chris..
How much distortion has a good quality midrange speaker at 1 kHz at 1W?
And what kind of distortion?
I don't remember to have seen any distortion charts at speaker level here.....only at amp level. And if a speaker distort like 1% or so.....it may be difficult to hear if an amp has 0.1% 2nd harmonic distortion or 0.01% 3. harmonic?
Has somebody who has built the H2 tried it with 1 KHz test sine and then adjusted the H2 from 0 to max. distortion? .....and is it possible to hear the added H2 when a 1 KHz test sine is used as input?
I remember a youtube video clip from Burning amp where Nelson demonstrated 2. harmonic vs. 3. harmonic distortion and this was audible via youtube. But I don't remember how much distortion.....if is was 0.1 or more like 2.0....or 10.0
And what kind of distortion?
I don't remember to have seen any distortion charts at speaker level here.....only at amp level. And if a speaker distort like 1% or so.....it may be difficult to hear if an amp has 0.1% 2nd harmonic distortion or 0.01% 3. harmonic?
Has somebody who has built the H2 tried it with 1 KHz test sine and then adjusted the H2 from 0 to max. distortion? .....and is it possible to hear the added H2 when a 1 KHz test sine is used as input?
I remember a youtube video clip from Burning amp where Nelson demonstrated 2. harmonic vs. 3. harmonic distortion and this was audible via youtube. But I don't remember how much distortion.....if is was 0.1 or more like 2.0....or 10.0
I have no idea why you think this is relevant for a hifi forum or supports your attempts to push your beliefs of your golden ears.
The reason I mentioned Senna is that he started the trend of driving your rival off the track. And he is considered one of the greatest F1 drivers ever. He drove prost off the track on purpose to win the 1990 world championship. Schumacher tried to do the same in 1997 pretty blatently. This is the world the young drivers were introduced to. You are making it sound like Hamilton is the only driver who has ever gone for gap in a risky place. Dunno if that is because you think you can rile up a British guy on a forum or because he is black, but it still has nothing at all to do with audio or DIY.
Test results please to back up your theories then, or it's sadly all puff.
Am I supposed to bow to your amazing access to expensive gear? I prefer live acoustic music as a reference. Perhaps the real thing is not hifi enough for you?
Or You ignore the truth. Works both ways.
Advice from a random person on the internet is worth nothing. In this case as your advice is that you can hear everything, including solder type I know it's safe to ignore.
Meper, stereophile test cd 2 has harmonic distortion tracks, second harmonic starting from 10% down to 0.1%.
Third harmonic series is similar, from 10% down to 0.1%.
Clearly audible in good headphones.
Seventh harmonic series ends all the way to 0.03%.
With good headphone amp and top noth headphones, still audible.
Whats audible depends on too many variables, but i would not underestimate it.
Back in 2004 Nelson Pass published an article in Audioexpress titled Current Source Amps and Sensitive/Full-Range Drivers. It shows a > 10dB difference in response @ ~120Hz between 2 amps. Should be plenty difference for most of us to hear.
You tell us.
Attachments
Do you think all these amplifiers sound same?
Virtual Audition of Very Simple Quasi MOSFET Amp
Virtual Audition of Very Simple Quasi MOSFET Amp
Then we can conclude that a 1000W Class D and a 7W SE 300B or VFET or another DIY Pass amp does not sound the same. That would also be my subjective conclusion after trying various amps on my system.
THD measured with steady sine wave is only one parameter. There are many other. This is from an old article. Its a quote about TIM and importance of not to apply too much negative feedback.
"Modern amplifier distortion is controlled by negative feedback, which reduces the distortion in proportion to the feedback. Amplification is cheaply available so the apparent non-linearity can be reduced to arbitrarily low levels by sufficient feedback.
But the feedback signal takes time to get through the amplifier and back to the input negatively to quash the distortion. So when sudden changes (transients) occur there is a period during which the naked amplifier is exposed to the world, and the non-linearity adds intermodulation rogue signals to the original, which are not entirely canceled by the feedback. This is transient intermodulation distortion. What you need is an amplifier sensibly without distortion before applying feedback."
"Modern amplifier distortion is controlled by negative feedback, which reduces the distortion in proportion to the feedback. Amplification is cheaply available so the apparent non-linearity can be reduced to arbitrarily low levels by sufficient feedback.
But the feedback signal takes time to get through the amplifier and back to the input negatively to quash the distortion. So when sudden changes (transients) occur there is a period during which the naked amplifier is exposed to the world, and the non-linearity adds intermodulation rogue signals to the original, which are not entirely canceled by the feedback. This is transient intermodulation distortion. What you need is an amplifier sensibly without distortion before applying feedback."
I feel with thread like this that it all has been discussed ad nauseam. While I hate to repeat myself, this was my comment why classA sounds different than classAB.
"While I am no expert, I have even simpler explanation why ClassA is better.
Typical ClassA will have higher distortion, at full power, but the distortion at lower power goes down. Lower power, lower distortion, general trend is towards zero at zero power, off course, noise tend to affect the trend, but you get the idea. Its because nonexistent crossover distortion, since only one driving element is on all the time.
Typical classAB, on the other hand, has best lowest distortion at full power. Nice! Yeah, but who listens at full power? How much time, when you look at waveform, signal spends at full power? Just look at normal musical signal in any good software, I use sony soundforge, signal crosses zero all the time, 1kHz signal crosses zero 2000 times a second. Signal is constantly crossing the zero, as microphone membrane moves back and forth, as air pressure goes from positive to negative. As drum goes back and forth, as guitar string moves back and forth. Always up and down around zero.
Back to typical classAB amp, with extremely low distortion at peak of full power, but then, the distortion starts creeping up, as power goes down. At very low signal level, it can be substantial, and the trend is not towards zero. When signal is crossing from positive to negative, countless time a second, the distortion is high. Signal spends lots of time crossing, so there is a lot of distortion added.
Someone clever, not me, said, who cares how amplifier sounds at 100 watts, if it sounds like crap at 1 watt."
"While I am no expert, I have even simpler explanation why ClassA is better.
Typical ClassA will have higher distortion, at full power, but the distortion at lower power goes down. Lower power, lower distortion, general trend is towards zero at zero power, off course, noise tend to affect the trend, but you get the idea. Its because nonexistent crossover distortion, since only one driving element is on all the time.
Typical classAB, on the other hand, has best lowest distortion at full power. Nice! Yeah, but who listens at full power? How much time, when you look at waveform, signal spends at full power? Just look at normal musical signal in any good software, I use sony soundforge, signal crosses zero all the time, 1kHz signal crosses zero 2000 times a second. Signal is constantly crossing the zero, as microphone membrane moves back and forth, as air pressure goes from positive to negative. As drum goes back and forth, as guitar string moves back and forth. Always up and down around zero.
Back to typical classAB amp, with extremely low distortion at peak of full power, but then, the distortion starts creeping up, as power goes down. At very low signal level, it can be substantial, and the trend is not towards zero. When signal is crossing from positive to negative, countless time a second, the distortion is high. Signal spends lots of time crossing, so there is a lot of distortion added.
Someone clever, not me, said, who cares how amplifier sounds at 100 watts, if it sounds like crap at 1 watt."
There was a PhD thesis about this exact topic. I will try to find it.
Found it!
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.497.2126&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Found it!
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.497.2126&rep=rep1&type=pdf
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