Exactly - Have fun in building amps and speakers (and above all listening to Music), sterile discussions on social forum are waste of time. IMHO, obviously....
I think for such tests it's advisable just to listen to the FIRST WATT RMS of the DUT, this should be enough for most Audiophiles to hear the difference.
And I'm sure there is a difference between Transistors, Mosfets, and Tubes, don't want to talk about Class D..
I think the regular people / also not meaning audiophile will may find it a bit harder to hear the difference, but I'm positive, that even these people would hear a difference..
Test like that had happen with turntable against CD..
And if someone knows of the characteristics between Tube Amps and Transistors, then it will make it even more easy..
Also there would be advanced to testing these amplifiers a hearing test be needed for all participants, that all of them hear at least up to 14KHZ because high frequencies, give the final sound the final touch...
This is just my 5 cents..
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For me any test in this world would have following PRESET as a must.!
1. For all who have to decide between to kind of AMPS they must know how TUBE AMPS SOUND, how TRANSISTOR AMPS SOUND how MOSFET AMPS sound and also how CHIP AMPS SOUND. and this prior to the test, anything else is just for nothing and not trustworthy.!
But with the exception the DUT's the brand and models are kept secrets as well as the lineup must be kept secrets and as well the time of switching the amps must be secrets.
2.For all those who just test to find out if there is a difference, there is no need to know how the amps sound prior to the test, because the question is, is there a difference or not, and not what amp is played at the time.
3.Then also bring some Musicians to these test, who have at least 10 years of experience in LIVE MUSIC then comes the last but not least..
4. Bring in a neutral JURY who supervises the Tests.. and I'm positive then the outcome will be all different from: There is no difference.!
We have done that at HIFI HOUSE in Bangkok 1992, Between Tube amps and Transistor amps. Same song played from CD, Speakers where Wandersteen 2Ci 3Way and Preamp was Audio Research..60% of the participants found the right amp while testing.
Amps tested were made in Thailand.. on schematics from USA..
1. For all who have to decide between to kind of AMPS they must know how TUBE AMPS SOUND, how TRANSISTOR AMPS SOUND how MOSFET AMPS sound and also how CHIP AMPS SOUND. and this prior to the test, anything else is just for nothing and not trustworthy.!
But with the exception the DUT's the brand and models are kept secrets as well as the lineup must be kept secrets and as well the time of switching the amps must be secrets.
2.For all those who just test to find out if there is a difference, there is no need to know how the amps sound prior to the test, because the question is, is there a difference or not, and not what amp is played at the time.
3.Then also bring some Musicians to these test, who have at least 10 years of experience in LIVE MUSIC then comes the last but not least..
4. Bring in a neutral JURY who supervises the Tests.. and I'm positive then the outcome will be all different from: There is no difference.!
We have done that at HIFI HOUSE in Bangkok 1992, Between Tube amps and Transistor amps. Same song played from CD, Speakers where Wandersteen 2Ci 3Way and Preamp was Audio Research..60% of the participants found the right amp while testing.
Amps tested were made in Thailand.. on schematics from USA..
This I don't understand. If I want to decide on which amp sounds best or is preferred, isn't just the sound important? I should care less whether it runs on steam or electricity! I should care less whether it is class A, AB, C, D, H, G, whatever.
Jan
Well you could always add an H2 board to your low distortion amp and make it sound as colorful as a high distortion one
Jan
I did not open the thread.
But I try to give as much as possible a true & honest answer in this matter, if it would concern me.
that's all.
I'm in for Class A Power and Tube in Pre and Line Drive..
This is what fits me. But not all Amp sound the same, and the reasons why, and what is my opinion in this matter I already wrote here..
And Class and the Kind and Brand matters, cause not all the listeners are Deaf.. *Not meaning you and no offence meant to anyone else* But this is what it would turn out to, if someone confirms all amp are sounding the same..
Because then all the work, all the designs all the hours on testing would be for the TRASHCAN and didn't meant recycle bin.!
And only one AMP would be on the marked.! Because there would be no need for other amps as these sound the same. Period.!
That's it what it's all about. It's business what is behind this and it's about the same lie and betrayel as a race driver who pushes on different occasions twice another driver of the track because otherwise he wouldn't win. It's always easy to say it sounds the same just to make a few bucks out, of the product, which in reality is just good for the Trashcan, but it has to be sold..
And all amps who one heard sounding the same to this person, doesn't mean that these are sounding the same for anyone else.
We need to get honest about a few things, and this is one of them..
And if all Amps would sound the same, then you and me wouldn't need to type here.. Why what for. would be a waste of time.!
For anyone who thinks all the amps are sounding the same, try followings..
Just listen to these amps on low level when it's real quiet.. soon you will hear the difference..
Thats it.
At least you admit you are biased.
But some believe fanatically in their own hearing abilities ignoring all evidence that contradicts their view...
Senna? Schumacher?
And if we don't what then? Are we deaf or are you deluded?
I've heard the quote about amps two different ways. One is "All amps sound the same" and the other is more along the lines of "All amps that meet a minimal standard for noise and distortion sound the same". You can throw in there 'function properly under a reactive load' too. (don't get me started on the fact that they test with just a resistive load)
So, yes, it should be fairly easy to have a tube amp (especially a PP one) and a SS amp sound similar enough to be indistinguishable; this would be even easier with the questionable acoustics and background noise at an audio show.
To most of those that say all amps sound the same, any amp that doesn't meet the criteria listed above is a broken amp and thus isn't considered.
To them, it doesn't matter if you enjoy listening to the 'broken' amp design more, because it is just wrong to reproduce music through it.
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I often find that when switching back and forth amps can sound the same; even after longer listening sessions I may not pinpoint a difference. What I do sometimes notice, weeks after switching, is that I'm just not listening to music much anymore. There is something about the sound that is just not pulling me in. This can even happen when at the time of the switch I thought the new amp was an improvement.
Maybe the old amp had some 'weakness' that masked an issue with the acoustics in the room. It could be there is something in the way the amps work with the speakers within the room that made the one sound just a bit less engaging.
I've run into the same issue with my DIY SE tube amp. I will make changes to it that when I turn it back on, I think "wow, that sounds better"; then a few weeks later I'll realize I haven't turned it on in days. Or when I do turn it on I will only listen for a short time.
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I would agree 100% with you if the sound is the only factor that would determine people's preference. We both now that is not the case.
And that is why there are so many different amps on the market, and why the preference of people varies so enormously.
Jan
You are assuming that a) every audio show room is bad, and b) every listening room at home is good.
That's a stretch, and weakens your arguments.
Jan
Exactly - Have fun in building amps and speakers (and above all listening to Music),
sterile discussions on social forum are waste of time. IMHO, obviously....
Well says Peppennino
life is too short, let's build new amplifiers..
Oh.. this single-ended don't sound like push-pull then with super symmetry amp music presentation sound different..
Horns with compressions and full range drivers bring not the same music presentation etc.
Not every violin instrument sound like original Stradivarius..