What does PSUD predict for your ripple current? I suspect either cap model will do.
You're still looking at the wrong voltage caps - with 20VAC you need 35V caps or better.
If you go to CLC, your rail voltage will be higher with the same transformer. either revisit your heat sink calculations to ensure that you can handle the increased dissipation, use a lower voltage transformer or both.
You're still looking at the wrong voltage caps - with 20VAC you need 35V caps or better.
If you go to CLC, your rail voltage will be higher with the same transformer. either revisit your heat sink calculations to ensure that you can handle the increased dissipation, use a lower voltage transformer or both.
scaiffoo1,
If you have made a decision to possibly order from Farnell, and incure air freight charges, you could also order from RS global and get 40 volt Rifa caps which have tremendous ripple current capability, read huge here, and your search will be done. These are some of the best capacitors made on this planet. Just make sure to mount vertical since they have liquid oil in the can. They may stock the values you need at Mouser, domestic freight, if you are lucky. The Rifa caps do not generally dry out as fast as some other types of capacitors. I have never read much negative type concerning the Rifa brand.
Good hunting Tad
If you have made a decision to possibly order from Farnell, and incure air freight charges, you could also order from RS global and get 40 volt Rifa caps which have tremendous ripple current capability, read huge here, and your search will be done. These are some of the best capacitors made on this planet. Just make sure to mount vertical since they have liquid oil in the can. They may stock the values you need at Mouser, domestic freight, if you are lucky. The Rifa caps do not generally dry out as fast as some other types of capacitors. I have never read much negative type concerning the Rifa brand.
Good hunting Tad
dose the type of choke effect the sound quality, DIY tube amp builders beleave so
Hi, I am now better read about some parts and am now rethinking my choice on the ERSE choke used. I need to know if it is worth purchasing copper foil inductors, 2.2mH 12gage 0.316ohms 1000watts $68.96
Copper Foil Inductor Coils | Foil Q | ERSE
Or if I will get the same performance from a Non-Perfect Lay inductor that I can purchase on sale, 2.7mH 12gage 0.28ohms 1000watts $25.13
ERSE-XQ
Or stick with the ERSE Super Q 2.2mH 14gage 0.113ohms 600watts $19.57
ERSE - Super Q
I am using copper foil inductors in my speaker x-over and they do make a big differance there in sound quality, making them worth every cent in this case to me.
From what I have read about chokes used in DIY tube amps, the differance is in the high frequencies detail as well as opening up the sound stage in your living room with the instrament players of the music being more clearly defined physical positions in the room. I dont know if I can believe all of the things that tube amp builders say they can hear by using boutique componants.
I am considering building a CLC or CLCLC or CLCRCRC, I am concidering these more expensive Power Supplies because of all of the times Nelson Pass has commented from the begining 75A through the Zen Variations and other articals, that his designs are very sesitive to the quality of the current used and is continuasly evolving the Power Supplies interaction with the amplifier. The price of the inductors and capacitors used will determine the Power Supply type I will build.
Hi, I am now better read about some parts and am now rethinking my choice on the ERSE choke used. I need to know if it is worth purchasing copper foil inductors, 2.2mH 12gage 0.316ohms 1000watts $68.96
Copper Foil Inductor Coils | Foil Q | ERSE
Or if I will get the same performance from a Non-Perfect Lay inductor that I can purchase on sale, 2.7mH 12gage 0.28ohms 1000watts $25.13
ERSE-XQ
Or stick with the ERSE Super Q 2.2mH 14gage 0.113ohms 600watts $19.57
ERSE - Super Q
I am using copper foil inductors in my speaker x-over and they do make a big differance there in sound quality, making them worth every cent in this case to me.
From what I have read about chokes used in DIY tube amps, the differance is in the high frequencies detail as well as opening up the sound stage in your living room with the instrament players of the music being more clearly defined physical positions in the room. I dont know if I can believe all of the things that tube amp builders say they can hear by using boutique componants.
I am considering building a CLC or CLCLC or CLCRCRC, I am concidering these more expensive Power Supplies because of all of the times Nelson Pass has commented from the begining 75A through the Zen Variations and other articals, that his designs are very sesitive to the quality of the current used and is continuasly evolving the Power Supplies interaction with the amplifier. The price of the inductors and capacitors used will determine the Power Supply type I will build.
Attachments
choosing a quality Electrolytic Capacitor for Long Life and excellent Ripple Numbers
I have now done lots of reading and have limited my Electrolytic Capacitor to the following items with a link to their Data Sheets, is a higher or lower number better for the "Ripple Current 'A' at 85degree 100Hz & 10KHz" I think it is lower but I have not been advised on this point and just picked lower number is better intuitively, which is a guess, can you help me with this anyone ?
1. BHC part number ALC10C563EL035, 35volt, 56,000uF $23.74
2. BHC part number ALS30A154NF040, 40volt, 150,000uF $66.18
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/31825.pdf
3.Vishay BC part number 222210116683, 25volt, 68,000uF $28.46
4.Vishay BC part number MAL205656333E3, 25volt, 33,000uF $11.85
I have now done lots of reading and have limited my Electrolytic Capacitor to the following items with a link to their Data Sheets, is a higher or lower number better for the "Ripple Current 'A' at 85degree 100Hz & 10KHz" I think it is lower but I have not been advised on this point and just picked lower number is better intuitively, which is a guess, can you help me with this anyone ?
1. BHC part number ALC10C563EL035, 35volt, 56,000uF $23.74
2. BHC part number ALS30A154NF040, 40volt, 150,000uF $66.18
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/31825.pdf
3.Vishay BC part number 222210116683, 25volt, 68,000uF $28.46
Aluminum Capacitors Power High Ripple Current Screw Terminals
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/526191.pdfhttp://canada.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=18K79774.Vishay BC part number MAL205656333E3, 25volt, 33,000uF $11.85
Aluminum Capacitors Power Standard Miniature Snap-In
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/415179.pdf
I have chosen these based on what Newark has in inventory, there are other capacitors on these data sheets that would be more ideal, but I can not find them searching Google.
Some of the capacitors I have chosen are 35 volts and 40volts, can I use these capacitors if I am useing 25volts, or would I have to use a higher 25volt transformer insted of the 18volt transformer. Can the Front End J-FETs of the amplifier take the 35volts or would I have to change some resistors to limit the voltage to the J-FETs ?
Thank you for your help, I am getting closer to buying my parts now, there is only a couple of questions I need to be answered before I purchase, I cant wait to start sodering.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/415179.pdf
I have chosen these based on what Newark has in inventory, there are other capacitors on these data sheets that would be more ideal, but I can not find them searching Google.
Some of the capacitors I have chosen are 35 volts and 40volts, can I use these capacitors if I am useing 25volts, or would I have to use a higher 25volt transformer insted of the 18volt transformer. Can the Front End J-FETs of the amplifier take the 35volts or would I have to change some resistors to limit the voltage to the J-FETs ?
Thank you for your help, I am getting closer to buying my parts now, there is only a couple of questions I need to be answered before I purchase, I cant wait to start sodering.
continued from above #784 pg79
continued from above #784 pg79, I listed four Elecrolytic Capacitors, I now have one more(fifth) data sheet and price for analyses:
5. Evox Rifa part number PEH200HK6100M, 25volt, 100,000uF $43.10
http://docs-asia.origin.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0113/0900766b8011331b.pdf
Thank You again for your help.
continued from above #784 pg79, I listed four Elecrolytic Capacitors, I now have one more(fifth) data sheet and price for analyses:
5. Evox Rifa part number PEH200HK6100M, 25volt, 100,000uF $43.10
http://docs-asia.origin.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0113/0900766b8011331b.pdf
Thank You again for your help.
scaiff001:
As a newbie anxious to both learn and figure out a bill of materials for my hotly anticipated Aleph J-X, this thread is a goldmine. Your posts requesting advice on parts are helpful so, for that, thank you. But I'm curious: what's your rationale for repeatedly proposing power supply capacitors with a 25V rating? It seems clear that, with the 18V secondaries the Aleph J-X requires, the margin for error on 25V caps is very low. It also seems clear that selecting 35V (or higher) caps would compeltely eliminate the risk. Similarly, why not select 105C caps instead of the 85C versions (after all, we're talking about one hot amp)?
And to all:
Is the ALC40 series of Rifa caps a good option? For example, would Rifa's ALC40A473EL040, a 40VDC 47,000uf 105C cap with an ESR of 23 be a good choice? It's availability seems limited, but perhaps they can be ordered on a special order basis. Is this the sort of thing that group buys are made of?
Sorry for rambling -- please don't let me slow down the accumulation of knowledge on this topic.
Regards,
Scott
As a newbie anxious to both learn and figure out a bill of materials for my hotly anticipated Aleph J-X, this thread is a goldmine. Your posts requesting advice on parts are helpful so, for that, thank you. But I'm curious: what's your rationale for repeatedly proposing power supply capacitors with a 25V rating? It seems clear that, with the 18V secondaries the Aleph J-X requires, the margin for error on 25V caps is very low. It also seems clear that selecting 35V (or higher) caps would compeltely eliminate the risk. Similarly, why not select 105C caps instead of the 85C versions (after all, we're talking about one hot amp)?
And to all:
Is the ALC40 series of Rifa caps a good option? For example, would Rifa's ALC40A473EL040, a 40VDC 47,000uf 105C cap with an ESR of 23 be a good choice? It's availability seems limited, but perhaps they can be ordered on a special order basis. Is this the sort of thing that group buys are made of?
Sorry for rambling -- please don't let me slow down the accumulation of knowledge on this topic.
Regards,
Scott
Your supply will cost a small fortune. Consider the 18,000uf Panasonic TSUP caps rated at either 35 or 50V, forget which, from ApexJr. $2.50 each. A lot less than the caps you are looking at and these Pannys are excellent for power supplies.
Uriah
Uriah
All:
Whoops -- perhaps I posted too soon: how about the Kemet (Rifa) ALS40 series? Screw mounting and a lower ESR (9 on the 47,000uf 40VDC cap).
Regards,
Scott
Whoops -- perhaps I posted too soon: how about the Kemet (Rifa) ALS40 series? Screw mounting and a lower ESR (9 on the 47,000uf 40VDC cap).
Regards,
Scott
Plus, instead of paying all that money to get low ESR out of one cap, you use several of these Panasonics in your supply and get ultra low ESR by paralleling them.
Anyway, SCAIFF - Your transformer outputs AC into a rectifier which turns this into DC. How much DC comes out of the rectifier? 1.4XAC. So your 20VAC transformer puts out 28VDC after rectification. Your capacitor must be rated AT LEAST 25% higher than the output of the rectifier. So your 28VDC supply must have capacitors of at least 35VDC. As long as the caps are rated more than 25% of the DC output then you can use any transformers. If you have a 10,000VDC cap you can still use a 5VAC transformer, they dont need to match up, the caps can always be used as long as they are over 25% more than the DC output of the rectifier OR MORE.
Uriah
Anyway, SCAIFF - Your transformer outputs AC into a rectifier which turns this into DC. How much DC comes out of the rectifier? 1.4XAC. So your 20VAC transformer puts out 28VDC after rectification. Your capacitor must be rated AT LEAST 25% higher than the output of the rectifier. So your 28VDC supply must have capacitors of at least 35VDC. As long as the caps are rated more than 25% of the DC output then you can use any transformers. If you have a 10,000VDC cap you can still use a 5VAC transformer, they dont need to match up, the caps can always be used as long as they are over 25% more than the DC output of the rectifier OR MORE.
Uriah
ALC40 series is made by BHC in England.
Max ripple current level of the 47kuF(mF) is around 10.5A, the ripple current level of an Aleph-JX is lower.
That translates to a life expectancy of 14,000 hours at 105C for the big can types.
At a max temperature of 55C they'd have a theroretical life expectancy of 450,000 hours.
Means that you'd be a goner long before the caps would choke and die.
The 85C max ALC10 series is cheaper, pretty much identical to the 105C series, and theoretically last 224,000 hours at 55C.
After pushing Scaiff to run it through PSU designer, I ran the numbers. Based on a 20VAC 1KVA 7% regulation transformer 99mF 2.7 mH, 99 mF, and 10A bias, he's looking at around 19A RMS in the first caps in the filter. Another argument for multiple (cheaper) caps. I second Uriah's recommendation.
Scaiff - inductor choice is yours, what are you willing to spend and is it worth the perceived benefit?
Scaiff - inductor choice is yours, what are you willing to spend and is it worth the perceived benefit?
technique of components choice in your BOM
I have been looking at all of the components of the Aleph J-X amp., I have not completed my work yet but think that your solution might be worth while, but I have already purchased two psb(s) for two channels of A J-X mono amps, dose your price include more psb(s) ? Is your BOM compatible with the psb(s) I have now.
Dose your BOM include components for the Power Supply, and Inrush Current Limiter, and DC Filter, or other protection circuits I am not aware of yet.
Choosing components seems to be a good way of learning about this amplifier, by having to posses knollage of each components data sheet and its place in the amplifiers operation through interacting along with the other components, with this knollage I can determine what specifications are to be maximized or minimized for each component and then find all of the components of the same or similar value from all manufactures then systematically look over each selected component and choose a few with similar specifications on their Data Sheets then try to find people who have used these components and why they like them, now I have narrowed the component list from hundreds to two or three and now I can look at the price to determine my choice. Have you chosen your components threw some type of scientific method and do you posses documentation with your component selection process that you could make public here at diyAudio ?
Thank You for your help, I need some more information in order to purchase your BOM.
Hi diyldr@gmail.com,
I have been looking at all of the components of the Aleph J-X amp., I have not completed my work yet but think that your solution might be worth while, but I have already purchased two psb(s) for two channels of A J-X mono amps, dose your price include more psb(s) ? Is your BOM compatible with the psb(s) I have now.
Dose your BOM include components for the Power Supply, and Inrush Current Limiter, and DC Filter, or other protection circuits I am not aware of yet.
Choosing components seems to be a good way of learning about this amplifier, by having to posses knollage of each components data sheet and its place in the amplifiers operation through interacting along with the other components, with this knollage I can determine what specifications are to be maximized or minimized for each component and then find all of the components of the same or similar value from all manufactures then systematically look over each selected component and choose a few with similar specifications on their Data Sheets then try to find people who have used these components and why they like them, now I have narrowed the component list from hundreds to two or three and now I can look at the price to determine my choice. Have you chosen your components threw some type of scientific method and do you posses documentation with your component selection process that you could make public here at diyAudio ?
Thank You for your help, I need some more information in order to purchase your BOM.
I dont have a PSU board or BOM for sale. I am just trying to help you pick a good but inexpensive cap.
Uriah
Uriah
PSU simmulater
I downloaded the PSU designer but could not figure out how to get it to work with the component arrangements I have been considering, maybe I had downloaded the wrong psu simmulater.
I downloaded the PSU designer but could not figure out how to get it to work with the component arrangements I have been considering, maybe I had downloaded the wrong psu simmulater.
By Default it opens with a simple C filter. Select the load, right click then select insert and select the filter segment you want to add. Right click on any component to change its value. Adjust the load to get your desired bias.
When simulating, use 1 second or more in the "after a reporting delay of" box to get steady state values. The turn on surge is interesting, especially when looking at soft start and bridge current carrying ability, but if you include that the RMS values of cap currents are MUCH higher - pushing 40A in in the first second.
When simulating, use 1 second or more in the "after a reporting delay of" box to get steady state values. The turn on surge is interesting, especially when looking at soft start and bridge current carrying ability, but if you include that the RMS values of cap currents are MUCH higher - pushing 40A in in the first second.
Ultimate BOM group purchase
I was discussing your "Ultimate BOM group purchase" and what type of technique you have used determining your selection of components as "Ultimate", this would prove to be usefull in making a decision to purchase your "Ultimate BOM group purchase" with you, or from you. I have looked over some time ago the "Ultimate BOM" documentation, but could not find any discription of why each component has been selected along with the components that you considered for each component but did not meet your standards, what are your standards in choosing components for this group purchase ?
Thank You for your comment, there is a file I was not able to open from your documentation, maybe what I am looking for is in there.
I was discussing your "Ultimate BOM group purchase" and what type of technique you have used determining your selection of components as "Ultimate", this would prove to be usefull in making a decision to purchase your "Ultimate BOM group purchase" with you, or from you. I have looked over some time ago the "Ultimate BOM" documentation, but could not find any discription of why each component has been selected along with the components that you considered for each component but did not meet your standards, what are your standards in choosing components for this group purchase ?
Thank You for your comment, there is a file I was not able to open from your documentation, maybe what I am looking for is in there.
can someone tell me if I am interpiting capacitor 100Hz & 10KHz at 85degree Ripple numbers correctly, intuitively I decided that a lower number is better, is this true, and what happens to the number when capacitors are in parellel, are they averaged out or is a sum taken ?
I hope that I dont have to spend a thousand dollars on the power supply, but I know that upgrading every year is a more expensive way of purchasing a sound system while always never having the best money can buy.
I hope that I dont have to spend a thousand dollars on the power supply, but I know that upgrading every year is a more expensive way of purchasing a sound system while always never having the best money can buy.
I have found that many small electr.cap. is better than one or a few
I have found out that the 100Hz&10,000Hz 85degree Ripple Number should be higher to be better. Therefore ten of the $1.20 Nichicon PW Series 6800uF will have a Ripple number of 10 times 3800mA for a 38A Ripple Number
http://products.nichicon.co.jp/en/pdf/XJA043/e-pw.pdf making a 68,000uF Electrolytic Capacitor. All other $18.00-$68.00 Premium Priced Electrlytic Capacitors have a Ripple Number of 14 (+or-3) of equal 68,000uF sizes. Also by mounting ten (or eighteen for 100,000uF) Nichicon PW Electrolytic Capacitors will lower the ESR by a significant amount.
I believe I will build this Power Supply, but delivery of the Nichicon PW cap will take 145 days.
I have found out that the 100Hz&10,000Hz 85degree Ripple Number should be higher to be better. Therefore ten of the $1.20 Nichicon PW Series 6800uF will have a Ripple number of 10 times 3800mA for a 38A Ripple Number
http://products.nichicon.co.jp/en/pdf/XJA043/e-pw.pdf making a 68,000uF Electrolytic Capacitor. All other $18.00-$68.00 Premium Priced Electrlytic Capacitors have a Ripple Number of 14 (+or-3) of equal 68,000uF sizes. Also by mounting ten (or eighteen for 100,000uF) Nichicon PW Electrolytic Capacitors will lower the ESR by a significant amount.
I believe I will build this Power Supply, but delivery of the Nichicon PW cap will take 145 days.
In the boat business, two engines/powersupplies are much more favorable than a single big one, for various reasons.
As you're researching in such detail, you could consider alternative solutions.
As you're researching in such detail, you could consider alternative solutions.