Link is dead, attached is the article courtesy of wayback machine
I finally had time to make vertical directivity measurements!
Angles estimated with 5 deg steps up to 30 degrees. Indoor with quite many disturbing reflections, so I will show only smoothed 4ms gated measurements. Lower limit in graphics is 200Hz, keep that in mind when looking and comparing to other similar from eg. ASR or Erin's Audio Corner
Present eq-xo is done with Minidsp 2x4HD using parametrics (not FIR). Slopes are basically LR2 but with elliptic tails. In v35 lowest xo is 150 Hz, second 600Hz, then 4500Hz. Previous v33 has higher SW and WM xo. Peaking above 10kHz can be eq'd easily, but it's not disturbing to anyone.
4ms 1/3 smoothing 100-20 000Hz
9ms 1/12 smoothing 20-20 000Hz
Angles estimated with 5 deg steps up to 30 degrees. Indoor with quite many disturbing reflections, so I will show only smoothed 4ms gated measurements. Lower limit in graphics is 200Hz, keep that in mind when looking and comparing to other similar from eg. ASR or Erin's Audio Corner
Present eq-xo is done with Minidsp 2x4HD using parametrics (not FIR). Slopes are basically LR2 but with elliptic tails. In v35 lowest xo is 150 Hz, second 600Hz, then 4500Hz. Previous v33 has higher SW and WM xo. Peaking above 10kHz can be eq'd easily, but it's not disturbing to anyone.
4ms 1/3 smoothing 100-20 000Hz
9ms 1/12 smoothing 20-20 000Hz
Room response of both L and R playing one by time, 500ms MMM
Right speaker's planars seem to be 5dB quieter - I must check settings and most likely lift their gain. Amp modules are similar and positioning is mirror image practically.
Right speaker's planars seem to be 5dB quieter - I must check settings and most likely lift their gain. Amp modules are similar and positioning is mirror image practically.
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More VCAD tables from latest indoor measurements, measured angles only to 30deg hor and vertical. 9ms gating, 1/6 smoothing. Freq starting from 100Hz, same scales.
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It has been several years since I read through your presentation. nice ! Thanks for the link.
Can you discuss the ramifications of tilting the 12" dipole driver ?
Can you discuss the ramifications of tilting the 12" dipole driver ?
It's dangerous to have a day off from work... Sipping coffee-stimulant and reading diyaudio reminded me about an annoyance I've had for 11 years now.
My center is a 2-way Infinity HCS5 from early 1990s. It's phase rotation is away from Ainos, so multichannel sound is never focused the way it should be. I have been trying to find a reasonable solution for this without any ideas worth testing. Until today - I want to make a passive sealed box 2-way with LR2 at 800Hz. Still there are serious limitations: 1) Available space is difficult and small 2) it must look neat 3) I must settle to limited freq range, perhaps too high for male voice 4) I can't design a passive xo
I have a few xo components and leftover drivers, fullranges, woofer, dome mid, automotive tweeter etc. First an ugly raw box for sound test, then more effort for better looks if the sound benefit is worth the effort.
My center is a 2-way Infinity HCS5 from early 1990s. It's phase rotation is away from Ainos, so multichannel sound is never focused the way it should be. I have been trying to find a reasonable solution for this without any ideas worth testing. Until today - I want to make a passive sealed box 2-way with LR2 at 800Hz. Still there are serious limitations: 1) Available space is difficult and small 2) it must look neat 3) I must settle to limited freq range, perhaps too high for male voice 4) I can't design a passive xo
I have a few xo components and leftover drivers, fullranges, woofer, dome mid, automotive tweeter etc. First an ugly raw box for sound test, then more effort for better looks if the sound benefit is worth the effort.
Hello Juha,
So you are wanting to go multichannels for a home théâtre in your living room?
,Into my living room (40 square meters), reality is brutal. TV with its monorail source is working like yours: near à wall. Sound is very well difused ans more natural (it is a LG so forgett the Prat effect for the movies). As soon as I listen the loudspeakers , same layout as your, whatever my room is damped and the speakers are not bad at imaging, this is less natural, real.
So whatever the Dolby atmo, Dirac, or third party EQ, one could have à help from, I even do not want to put a foot in HT.
Cheers, glad to see you still have your good OB.
So you are wanting to go multichannels for a home théâtre in your living room?
,Into my living room (40 square meters), reality is brutal. TV with its monorail source is working like yours: near à wall. Sound is very well difused ans more natural (it is a LG so forgett the Prat effect for the movies). As soon as I listen the loudspeakers , same layout as your, whatever my room is damped and the speakers are not bad at imaging, this is less natural, real.
So whatever the Dolby atmo, Dirac, or third party EQ, one could have à help from, I even do not want to put a foot in HT.
Cheers, glad to see you still have your good OB.
I have had the tv sound and all other sources coming thru AV receiver to 5 speakers for 25 years! Yamaha RXV has easy to use dsp and I can choose sound format easily. For music only I use normal stereo setting (Pure Direct). I don't need a subwoofer because Aino mains go down to 20Hz
Wanted to ask or to re-ask (so sorry if already)
If my memory serves me well, which is not always if I remember correctly 🤔
You testimonied than the 12" (100 hz to 600 hz iirc) in OB and baffle less as the Ainos' could not really sounds good if the upper register up to the tweeter where not dipoles as well. Or it gives an odd patern in the room not translating in a good sound for the sweet spot ?
Imagine something in the near spirit : 12" open for 100 Hz up to 300Hz 12 dB low pass and high pass, then a 5" or two semi open (U load) and a sealed 1" tweeter with WG or not (MMT arrengement for instance). In such way the 5" is loaded U way so back open (I think of a 15cm diameter pipe between the back of the 5" and 30 cm long and opened back. I think 300 hz of pass band is a mess filter wise but I am not sure; 1.5 octave is few.
Do you think it could merge well with a 12" baffle less or almost no frame and such sorta of hybrod OB in the mid, with finally a 1.5k or 2 K Hz sealed tweeter for the upper register?
Better to go direct sealed with a 12" up to 250 Hz then the opened mids (something like the Finalist from Curst campbell but on stereoids.)
Do not want to be off topic, feel free to answer or not, no probs 🙂 . I could ask later in a new thread as well. Just simple intelectual curiosity
Thanks
If my memory serves me well, which is not always if I remember correctly 🤔
You testimonied than the 12" (100 hz to 600 hz iirc) in OB and baffle less as the Ainos' could not really sounds good if the upper register up to the tweeter where not dipoles as well. Or it gives an odd patern in the room not translating in a good sound for the sweet spot ?
Imagine something in the near spirit : 12" open for 100 Hz up to 300Hz 12 dB low pass and high pass, then a 5" or two semi open (U load) and a sealed 1" tweeter with WG or not (MMT arrengement for instance). In such way the 5" is loaded U way so back open (I think of a 15cm diameter pipe between the back of the 5" and 30 cm long and opened back. I think 300 hz of pass band is a mess filter wise but I am not sure; 1.5 octave is few.
Do you think it could merge well with a 12" baffle less or almost no frame and such sorta of hybrod OB in the mid, with finally a 1.5k or 2 K Hz sealed tweeter for the upper register?
Better to go direct sealed with a 12" up to 250 Hz then the opened mids (something like the Finalist from Curst campbell but on stereoids.)
Do not want to be off topic, feel free to answer or not, no probs 🙂 . I could ask later in a new thread as well. Just simple intelectual curiosity
Thanks
I like the way you uses 9 edges to sim the OB baffle.
So you entirely using it before the null. So mane advantage is no box coloration here and it speads wild up to the bump before the null.
Thanks I wasn't remembering that.
Always wondered two things with the Edge : is the diameter of the radiating surface is the one of the cone or the one of the entire frame. Here for instance 30 cm diameter is not the emmiting surface of a 12". And also as if the soil distance was inclued in the computing ?! Maybe sligthy different in Vituix embeded version.
Surely not important in your sim but maybe beginns to matter with lower drivers ?
Anyway thanks for the illustration with the screen captures ! 👍
So you entirely using it before the null. So mane advantage is no box coloration here and it speads wild up to the bump before the null.
Thanks I wasn't remembering that.
Always wondered two things with the Edge : is the diameter of the radiating surface is the one of the cone or the one of the entire frame. Here for instance 30 cm diameter is not the emmiting surface of a 12". And also as if the soil distance was inclued in the computing ?! Maybe sligthy different in Vituix embeded version.
Surely not important in your sim but maybe beginns to matter with lower drivers ?
Anyway thanks for the illustration with the screen captures ! 👍
Radiating driver diameter should be real, not nominal. To be exact, it's measured from top of the surround rubber roll. Look at driver specifications including crossection. But an Edge sim is just a coarse sim!
Early versions of Ainos had horn-loaded electostatic tweeter. Then I added a bckside dome tweeter, then finally changed to open back magnetoplanar. Linkwitz used two opposing domes. The purpose is to make decay in the room constant through the spectrum, and you can hear the difference even with 5-6 kHz xo.
Early versions of Ainos had horn-loaded electostatic tweeter. Then I added a bckside dome tweeter, then finally changed to open back magnetoplanar. Linkwitz used two opposing domes. The purpose is to make decay in the room constant through the spectrum, and you can hear the difference even with 5-6 kHz xo.
I've been tinkering...It's dangerous to have a day off from work... Sipping coffee-stimulant and reading diyaudio reminded me about an annoyance I've had for 11 years now.
My center is a 2-way Infinity HCS5 from early 1990s. It's phase rotation is away from Ainos, so multichannel sound is never focused the way it should be. I have been trying to find a reasonable solution for this without any ideas worth testing. Until today - I want to make a passive sealed box 2-way with LR2 at 800Hz. Still there are serious limitations: 1) Available space is difficult and small 2) it must look neat 3) I must settle to limited freq range, perhaps too high for male voice 4) I can't design a passive xo
I have a few xo components and leftover drivers, fullranges, woofer, dome mid, automotive tweeter etc. First an ugly raw box for sound test, then more effort for better looks if the sound benefit is worth the effort.
View attachment 1363519 View attachment 1363520
I have a pair of CSS FR125S fullranges and two Peerless automotive tweeters laying around somewhere. Edge sim of twin 28mm tweeters have decent dispersion up to 5kHz and most likely they could pbe highpassed 800Hz for modest spl. CSS have XBL2 motors and rather good Xmax so 100Hz should be easy task for a pair. A quick sketch attached, but woofer section should and can be higher because it will be behind the 65" QLED panel. I don't remember the model of tweeters, must find those...
A few days ago in another thread at diyaudio I noticed a very similar commercial speaker, Consonus Tide, introduced in April 2024. Price for a pair is 80 000$ including dedicated dsp and power amplifiers. The man behind is Igor Levitsky, who designd and patented magnetoplanar transducers for Bohlander&Graebner, now he runs Radian.
Congratulations and good luck!
https://www.consonusaudio.com/products
https://radianaudio.com/
https://audioxpress.com/news/new-audio-brand-consonus-debuts-tide-speaker-system-at-axpona-2024
Clips from their paper:
- Tide has unique patent-pending concept of omni (for sub)-cardioid (for mid bass)-dipole (MF/HF) sources in one loudspeaker
Congratulations and good luck!
https://www.consonusaudio.com/products
https://radianaudio.com/
https://audioxpress.com/news/new-audio-brand-consonus-debuts-tide-speaker-system-at-axpona-2024
Clips from their paper:
- Tide has unique patent-pending concept of omni (for sub)-cardioid (for mid bass)-dipole (MF/HF) sources in one loudspeaker
Yup, great sounding speakers. Similar to yours, and mine in many ways. I heard them at Capital Audio Fest. He did not have all the amps finished at that time. He was very nice to talk to, keen to explain.
I am still stuck in biamping and all analog crossover.
Post in thread 'Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery' https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/ultimate-open-baffle-gallery.123512/post-7713068
One thing surprises me that his planar midrange goes all the way to 200Hz. I cross mine at 900Hz simply because it distorts if crossed lower. Cheers.
I am still stuck in biamping and all analog crossover.
Post in thread 'Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery' https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/ultimate-open-baffle-gallery.123512/post-7713068
One thing surprises me that his planar midrange goes all the way to 200Hz. I cross mine at 900Hz simply because it distorts if crossed lower. Cheers.