I'm curious what combinations you have tried that you have liked.
1. What kind of damping material and where.
2. Room placement, toe-in, elevation etc.
3. Amplifier options.
4. Subwoofer help. HP cap to the Aiko or not.
I will be using FE108Enabled drivers, thanks Dave. I currently have two Sony Recievers that I will temporarily use so as to really enjoy the improvement a proper amp will provide later.
Are any of the Tube amps on eBay from China any good? They look nifty.
I have no loyalty or preference to any brand, style, type anything. I realize many of the decisions you have made were from personal preference through experience. As a newbie to clean Hi-Fi, an informed starting point is what I'm looking for.
1. What kind of damping material and where.
2. Room placement, toe-in, elevation etc.
3. Amplifier options.
4. Subwoofer help. HP cap to the Aiko or not.
I will be using FE108Enabled drivers, thanks Dave. I currently have two Sony Recievers that I will temporarily use so as to really enjoy the improvement a proper amp will provide later.
Are any of the Tube amps on eBay from China any good? They look nifty.
I have no loyalty or preference to any brand, style, type anything. I realize many of the decisions you have made were from personal preference through experience. As a newbie to clean Hi-Fi, an informed starting point is what I'm looking for.
I'm a bit curious myself as to the number of Aikos extant, and builders' impressions vis a vis other projects.
Regarding amps - I'm all for tube amps, and the Chinese products I've heard ( e-Bay sourced and otherwise) have ranged from decent, if not captivating, sound but rather scary build quality to very nice indeed - but before making a categorical recommendation either way, it would be helpful to have some idea as to budget.
Be aware that after sales service is not necessarily a strength of many of these offerings.
OTOH, there are some great sounding high value tube kits available, particularly if you don't need scads of power.
http://www.decware.com/newsite/diy.html
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/S.E.X./SEX.htm
service and forum support for the Bottlehead gear is legendary
This factory built unit is very nice:
http://www.audio-magus.com/glow_amp_one_p/gla1.htm
Some of the Class-T amps also offer good bang for the buck:
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/ta10.htm
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/krt20.htm
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/krt20u.htm
Regarding amps - I'm all for tube amps, and the Chinese products I've heard ( e-Bay sourced and otherwise) have ranged from decent, if not captivating, sound but rather scary build quality to very nice indeed - but before making a categorical recommendation either way, it would be helpful to have some idea as to budget.
Be aware that after sales service is not necessarily a strength of many of these offerings.
OTOH, there are some great sounding high value tube kits available, particularly if you don't need scads of power.
http://www.decware.com/newsite/diy.html
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/S.E.X./SEX.htm
service and forum support for the Bottlehead gear is legendary
This factory built unit is very nice:
http://www.audio-magus.com/glow_amp_one_p/gla1.htm
Some of the Class-T amps also offer good bang for the buck:
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/ta10.htm
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/krt20.htm
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/krt20u.htm
Thanks for all of the links, will definately be helpful when the time comes.
I was doing some cutting calculations and wondered if you fine folks use Baltic Birch in 4' x 8' sheets or the 5' x 5' variety I read about but was previously not aware existed? Looks like two of the 5' x 5' sheets would be enough where one 4' x 8' is not. Two sheets of 4' x 8' would work but cost would be higher and lots more leftover.
Are the 5' x 5' sheets available in the US? I can't say I've actually ever shopped for high quality plywood other than the stuff Home Depot or Lowes carries.
Is good 'ol Elmers Wood Glue up to the task or what should I be using?
I was doing some cutting calculations and wondered if you fine folks use Baltic Birch in 4' x 8' sheets or the 5' x 5' variety I read about but was previously not aware existed? Looks like two of the 5' x 5' sheets would be enough where one 4' x 8' is not. Two sheets of 4' x 8' would work but cost would be higher and lots more leftover.
Are the 5' x 5' sheets available in the US? I can't say I've actually ever shopped for high quality plywood other than the stuff Home Depot or Lowes carries.
Is good 'ol Elmers Wood Glue up to the task or what should I be using?
I am also planning on starting to build the Aikos over Christmas with the help of my stepfather. I've got the 108ESigmas and the baltic birch ready to go.
You can get 5 x 5 sheets of baltic birch here in the states. I got mine(2 sheets) from Wurth Wood here in South Carolina. I checked and the closest Wurth to you is in Chattanooga.
My question about the Aikos is about the size of the supra-baffle. I know someone else has made it elliptical, but has anyone experimented with a smaller circle? What difference would this make?
You can get 5 x 5 sheets of baltic birch here in the states. I got mine(2 sheets) from Wurth Wood here in South Carolina. I checked and the closest Wurth to you is in Chattanooga.
My question about the Aikos is about the size of the supra-baffle. I know someone else has made it elliptical, but has anyone experimented with a smaller circle? What difference would this make?
I'm currently in Orlando, FL. I hope to be moved to Knoxville soon though.
What did you pay per 5x5 ? Is there a Wurth in Orlando? I suppose I can check that too. Thanks for the info.
From what I've read, the oval supra-baffle works the best. A round was tried first. I prefer the look of the Aiko with no baffle but it is supposed to make a desirable difference.
What did you pay per 5x5 ? Is there a Wurth in Orlando? I suppose I can check that too. Thanks for the info.
From what I've read, the oval supra-baffle works the best. A round was tried first. I prefer the look of the Aiko with no baffle but it is supposed to make a desirable difference.
The furthest south a Wurth Wood is in Atlanta. I paid $35/sheet for the 5/8" 5 x 5.
Visually, I prefer the circle over the oval. More importantly, hopefully I can use my circle cutting guide that I use for the speaker cutouts to easily make round SBs.
Visually, I prefer the circle over the oval. More importantly, hopefully I can use my circle cutting guide that I use for the speaker cutouts to easily make round SBs.
jeffx said:
The elliptical baffle was probably mine - dimensions were 273mm x 440mm. ( approx a golden ratio )
I'd made a variety of rectilinear shaped supra-baffles on several other projects, and it had been calling to me for a while to try an ellipse. Never did try a circle on this pair.
901Fixer said:
This particular pair of Aikos were originally intended for the Lyeco 4" driver that turned out to be a major disappointment - so it took some major revisions to the front baffle to fit the Fostex 108ESigma. In the end it was easier to just remove the driver cut-out portion of the fixed front panel altogether, and seal the suprabaffle to the cabinet. Future experimentation with different drivers, or without the SB is thereby complicated somewhat - so I've only heard them this way.
jeffx said:
The circle is certainly easier to cut by hand - I was able to get the ellipse machined on a CNC at work (in less time that it would take to cut the circles with a jig) . The aesthetics is of course entirely a matter of personal taste.
I've been discussing with Jeff a dimension that is not listed on the spec page for this enclosure. The "A" piece, 4 per box, does not have a location/dimension measurement for the inner pair. These look to determine the volume of the CC.
Jeff also mentioned to me that when using the FE108Sigma the driver mounts to the Supra-Baffle which is mounted to the face of the actual Baffle. If we are building this for the 108 to begin with should we change anything so as to mount the driver to the actual Baffle directly?
Jeff also mentioned to me that when using the FE108Sigma the driver mounts to the Supra-Baffle which is mounted to the face of the actual Baffle. If we are building this for the 108 to begin with should we change anything so as to mount the driver to the actual Baffle directly?
901Fixer said:
1) piece A is listed as 30mm x 127mm. Yes, they will determine the internal depth of the chamber.
2) I wouldn't recommend that for 2 reasons:
- the CC volume and parts dimensions include the additional layer of the "supra-baffle". If you tried to mount the driver directly to the 862mm long "actual" baffle, it might not fit.
- Even if it did fit, mounting the driver directly on the main baffle would result in it (driver) being rear-loaded on the suprabaffle. I've actually done this with FE126E and chamfered the front of the SB (which results is what could be considered a short, conical waveguide - see photo of A126 ), but the Sigma series beveled front mounting ring would seriously complicate things. I did consider it, but gave up.
This also means that the SB needs to be removable, while maintaining an air-tight seal to the main baffle.
All in all, I'd imagine it would be easier to attach the SB first, and than mount the driver. It does of course become one of those "I trust it'll work".
If you'd like to hear what it sounds like without the SB, you could always mount the driver to a small (157mm square) plate. In either case, note the drawings indicate the main baffle and driver mounting plate are bevelled on the back side to allow adequate "breathing room" around the large diameter of the magnet on the Sigma driver.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
chrisb said:
I see the dimension of the actual piece but don't see where it is located, the inner pair, relative to anything else.
The Supra-Baffle looks to be made up of 3 pieces. The whole elipse that mounts to the front of the actual baffle that the driver mounts to. Two elipse halves that fit behind it up snugly to the sidepanels. What is the overall thickness of the Supra-Baffle and what is the thickness of the 3 pieces?
Is there an updated set of plans for the Aiko or has everyone used the set on the Frugal-Horn site?
901Fixer said:
yer right - mea culpa on not retaining a set of as built drawings on this one - Dave or Scott would need to confirm that measurement
the partial ellipses could be considered optional - indeed, at one time we had considered shaping a stack of additional layers of styrofoam as far back as the rear panel - but time and other projects got in the way
the quick answer is the main supra-baffle is 3/4", as are each of the layers behind
These are probably the only "official" plans - to be honest we don't know how many pairs have been built.
Ah -you mean the small additional baffles that allow the volume / length of the filter-chamber to be adjusted? Good question. They were designed to be adjustable, but I believe you used a 5in chamber height Chris, or very close.
Scottmoose said:
yup, and that sounds about right
it's all becoming a bit of a blur, but IIRC, it was 2 yrs ago - so the best bet is to actually put a tape to the cabinets
So the inner side of the inner "A" pieces are 5" from the center-line of the driver cut-out?
Regardless of which Supra-Baffle shape one goes with, the driver mounts to it which spaces the driver out 3/4" from the main baffle?
Regardless of which Supra-Baffle shape one goes with, the driver mounts to it which spaces the driver out 3/4" from the main baffle?
2 12in each way from the centre, for a 5in total internal chamber length / height / whatever you want to call it.
Correct.
Correct.
Roger that, 5 inches between the inner "A" pieces inner sides. That looks to be the smallest filter chamber I've ever seen in my 30 days of FullRange Hi-Fi experience.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
The plans i have in my CAD -- which should be the same as those on the site -- show 5 7/8" (150mm)
It was always intended to be somewhat adjustable.
dave
It was always intended to be somewhat adjustable.
dave
yes
901Fixer said:
Remember at these dimensions, that even the volume & shape of the space in the layers of the baffle/supra-baffle will not be inconsequential, most particularly with motor assemblies the diameters found on the Sigma and ESR series.
planet10 said:
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