Indeed, seal after construction is complete. I use sanding sealer, (like shellac, but without the waxes) to seal the endgrain of MDF.
As for final finishing, a good few coats of oil to get the depth, then wax. You can't beat it on good wood.
As for final finishing, a good few coats of oil to get the depth, then wax. You can't beat it on good wood.
Haha marce, my friend building the other cabinets has the same size square room. I like your sense of humour and your music taste 🙂
My room is 5.5m by 3.5m and my standmounts similiar to the Seas Idunn's ( only diff tweeter and x/o) I've designed fill the room god know what something like yours would do.
My room is 5.5m by 3.5m and my standmounts similiar to the Seas Idunn's ( only diff tweeter and x/o) I've designed fill the room god know what something like yours would do.
Just a note on the Rustins MDF sealer, it's acrylic based not shellac. But as others have said you shouldn't seal prior to glueing.
If you want to seal the veneer or exposed MDF to take stain evenly you can buy a product called sanding sealer. These are usually shellac based.
If you want to seal the veneer or exposed MDF to take stain evenly you can buy a product called sanding sealer. These are usually shellac based.
If you are gluing the edge of MDF with Tritebond or similar, it helps to size the edges first with some of the glue and leave this to dry for an hour. This avoids the glue being soaked up and starving the joint.
I always use dowels on joints to both guide the pieces and add some mechanical strength, I have one of these, a great jig for doweling, but especially if you are going to do cabinets (32mm system).
Wolfcraft Dowelling Jig | Screwfix.com
I always use dowels on joints to both guide the pieces and add some mechanical strength, I have one of these, a great jig for doweling, but especially if you are going to do cabinets (32mm system).
Wolfcraft Dowelling Jig | Screwfix.com
Dowels are a great way to build speaker boxes, especially if you are trying to assemble them by yourself.
I don't recommend sizing joints though. If you leave PVA based glue (like Titebond) to dry it has very poor adhesion to itself. If you catch it before it's dry it's obviously not as big a problem, but it's just not necessary. If the glue penetrates more the joint gets stronger.
I don't recommend sizing joints though. If you leave PVA based glue (like Titebond) to dry it has very poor adhesion to itself. If you catch it before it's dry it's obviously not as big a problem, but it's just not necessary. If the glue penetrates more the joint gets stronger.
You do have to apply enough to stop the joint drying, I'm trying to find where I got that tip, a woodworking forum I think.
I tend to use Gorilla glue a lot myself for cabinet work, I like the speed and hole filling abilities.
For critical visual stuff, its Titebond or similar.
I tend to use Gorilla glue a lot myself for cabinet work, I like the speed and hole filling abilities.
For critical visual stuff, its Titebond or similar.
Thanks richie and marce your all giving me great advice, would of taken me ages to decide which products to use and more than likely I would of chosen the wrong procedure, as my starting thread proves, always better to get advice from people who has 'been there and done it'.
Dowels seem a great choice for adding strength to joints, I used a Wurth's PU glue and screws for the joints and found it brilliant, really strong joints, but next time I'll use dowels and Titebond, Titebond is well strong enough and easier to work with and clean up.
I have used Titebond 2 to bond a 3.6mm skin to my MDF cabinets. The biggest panels (side walls) had exposed MDF. Titebond 2 claims to be resin based yet been told it works like a PVA because it shrinks when drying, only noticed this on the big panels but not sure weather its because of the shrinking being more obvious on larger panel or exposed MDF joints soaking up the glue (or both).
Hey marce, I heard Gorilla glue is superb, and you seem to prefer to Titebond for construction do you?
Dowels seem a great choice for adding strength to joints, I used a Wurth's PU glue and screws for the joints and found it brilliant, really strong joints, but next time I'll use dowels and Titebond, Titebond is well strong enough and easier to work with and clean up.
I have used Titebond 2 to bond a 3.6mm skin to my MDF cabinets. The biggest panels (side walls) had exposed MDF. Titebond 2 claims to be resin based yet been told it works like a PVA because it shrinks when drying, only noticed this on the big panels but not sure weather its because of the shrinking being more obvious on larger panel or exposed MDF joints soaking up the glue (or both).
Hey marce, I heard Gorilla glue is superb, and you seem to prefer to Titebond for construction do you?
I use different glues for different constructions, with basic cabinets I tend to use Gorilla or similar polyurethane glues, for delicate and critical joins where I can also clamp up I use PVA based or similar, and wherever possible I use dowels to help guide and hold the pieces.
Makes sense marce, I used some right-angled clamps found them well easy to use for normal joints.
The main problem with Gorilla glue is the mess, it gets everywhere, and as it expands on setting, joints need to be clamped or otherwise fixed or it can push panels apart. If you do go that route, make sure when you get the glue, you also pick up a bulk pack of latex gloves. 🙂
Personally, I mostly use bog standard PVA, bought in bulk from Wickes. It's more than strong enough and cleanup is dead easy.
Personally, I mostly use bog standard PVA, bought in bulk from Wickes. It's more than strong enough and cleanup is dead easy.
Thanks pinkmouse, I had to use latex gloves for the PU glue what a nightmare to get that stuff of yours hands and anything else it gets unwanted contact with, PU glue did push my panels out where I put braces in too, it's incredible the strength of PU but don't think normal joints need that much. I believe almost any glue will do the job fine, just good as a beginner to learn differences and what's easier for us to use.
Dowels are fine. I use a biscuit jointer myself. I also use plenty of glue to saturate the MDF edges. There should always be squeeze-out (that needs to be promptly cleaned up).
I've used PU glue before (Gorilla brand) and these days I don't like it. Before I realized that Titebond Ultimate worked on oily tropical hardwoods (teak in this case), I would use PU glue. Of course, even using gloves, I'd wind up with black stains on my arms or hands, and lots of hardened foam everywhere.... sigh.
Chicken, gorilla glue is a great for depilation, I had to stick a panel to a ceiling (wearing a t-shirt) and stuck my hairy arm to it as well, had a very entertaining time. And a very bald arm after.
Have a look at Cal Welden's thread on glue strength, you may be surprised. PU glues expand (same as expanding foam only the expansion value is less) so can push a joint out.
As my hero Norm Abram sais, "you can never have enough clamps". RA clamps are a bit wimpy OK for picture frames and Ladies woodwork, F clamps are for men.😀😀
Got a biscuit joiner, used once....
Another alternative, 6" nails🙂
Have a look at Cal Welden's thread on glue strength, you may be surprised. PU glues expand (same as expanding foam only the expansion value is less) so can push a joint out.
As my hero Norm Abram sais, "you can never have enough clamps". RA clamps are a bit wimpy OK for picture frames and Ladies woodwork, F clamps are for men.😀😀
Got a biscuit joiner, used once....
Another alternative, 6" nails🙂
haha I can imagine you had a lot of laughs and pain with the bald arm, maybe when am bold on top I could say I've stuck something to the ceiling with PU glue and used my head to clamp it ha.
I've not made my mind up on the finish on my cabinets, all your advice has helped me so I think I'll go over all this and make my mind up.
I will invest in some more 'masculine' clamps in future and not use a shellac based sealer on none exposed MDF.
I've not made my mind up on the finish on my cabinets, all your advice has helped me so I think I'll go over all this and make my mind up.
I will invest in some more 'masculine' clamps in future and not use a shellac based sealer on none exposed MDF.
Generally speaking, you can use the oil and wax on hardwoods, whereas for softwoods, you need to use either a gel stain and/or a sanding sealer with a non-penetrating top coat like shellac, varnish, etc. The reason is that softwoods usually do not absorb penetrating finishes uniformly so you will get an uneven finish on your piece. I have used an oil finish on softwood like Douglas fir and it came out ok but I don't recommend it.
I am leaning towards the shellac finish. I presume the plywood am using is a softwood so will this process be appropriate:
1. Ensure surfaces are clean and free of dust
2. Use a water based stain first i.e American Walnut
3. Use a shellac based sanding sealer i.e diluted shellac flakes with the right alcohol mix
4. Mix shellac flakes for use as a finisher, apply, sand...until I get the right colour/finish
5. Use 0000 wire wool before last coat of shellac for a nice matt finish
Please tell me if this process is wrong.
1. Ensure surfaces are clean and free of dust
2. Use a water based stain first i.e American Walnut
3. Use a shellac based sanding sealer i.e diluted shellac flakes with the right alcohol mix
4. Mix shellac flakes for use as a finisher, apply, sand...until I get the right colour/finish
5. Use 0000 wire wool before last coat of shellac for a nice matt finish
Please tell me if this process is wrong.
What veneer does your plywood have?
Oil based stain would be better. You'll have to wait a long time to make sure the wood is dry after a water based stain because shellac does not like water!
After using the diluted shellac, sand the whole thing with 320 grit or so.
You do not have to use steel (wire) wool with shellac! The reason is that each coat of shellac partially dissolves the previous coats, ensuring an extremely good bond. You only have to use wire wool on varnishes and like finishes. You can, however, lightly sand after each coat (with 320 grit) to smooth out any brush marks you may have left (there will probably be a lot). Make sure you use a flat sanding block to take down the high spots. This will eventually produce a very smooth finish after 4 or 5 coats... <g>
At the end, you can buff the finish (with a low speed buffer and polish- shellac melts at warm temperatures) until you like it. Then you can wax it or just leave it.
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