Hi all,
I have been thinking about an open baffle EnABL project for a few months now. It seemed the natural thing to do, what with most of the arguing having calmed down and life having gotten boring once again.
Back a couple of years ago, I was horse traded a pair of Lowther PM6A, 16 ohm, silver voice coil drivers. Each of us thinks he got the best part of the deal, so it was a good trade. I have been thinking about what to do with these great big sunflowers for all of this time. I looked at Bushorns, Azura horns, back wave horn cabinets, multi way weird and conventional cabinets and just could not get excited about any of them.
I kept remembering how truly musical and engaging the last pair of EnABL'd Lowthers, also PM6A drivers, had sounded, just sitting nude on my test stands. In addition I worked on a pair of Emmi Beta 8 drivers for Gary Pimm and once they were as tamed as I could get them, I was struck by how articulate they were in the mid bass and down. But I really did not want to have to fight my way through those Raleigh wave jungles again.
Another person, John Hasquin, asked me if I had treated any Emmi Delta Pro 8 drivers with EnaBL. I hadn't even heard of them, but on exploring, I found a person willing to sell me a pair of 16 ohm drivers. They have the same motor as the Beta 8, a cast basket and a cone from a company Emmi purchased a few years ago. John says they are very very good, in one of his recent tapped horn enclosure experiments and I do rather trust his opinions.
So, I have a Lowther, useful with 7 watts and a Delta Pro 8, useful with 225 watts. I do not expect to ever listen to either at more than about 100 db spl, so I have a lot of spare capacity to devote to matching and equalization.
And in comes another of those interesting moments in life. Panomaniac and Gary Pimm, both, had been on about how good a Berringer DCX 24/96 was, after you replaced the op amps on input and output, with high quality transformers. Rene' Jaeger then opined that the DAC's ought to be replaced also, with units that do not have an embedded op amp.
I, on another hand, had been experimenting with transformer volume controls, with 80% nickle core, full isolation, a small gap to flatten the permeability curve and 24 steps, with a primary tap to allow half steps between, ala Dave Slagle's (Intact Audio) excellent tapped autoformer's.
Hmm I thought, how about the TVC's on the outputs, to allow the DCX to run at full bit rate and control the volume to set levels for a tri amp mode, for Lowther, Delta 8 and a sub woofer? And of course, a TVC as master gain for the input. Oh boy, this was way beyond my capabilities, but those who know how didn't seem worried at all.
So, now for that pesky bottom end. Gary Pimm had already demonstrated just how good a John K cardioid bass set up could be. But he is using 15 inch pro sound woofers and a Crown monster amp, along with significant EQ from the Berringer to generate 16 Hz at 110 dB spl.
Not going to happen in my home, somewhat unfortunately. However, could I get a pair of low efficiency Tang Band W8-740 P woofers per side, in a V mounting, with a 54 inch cardioid path length, to provide decent bass, to maybe 103 db spl? They are only 84 db sensitive, but they will absorb 150 watts of power and Sure just brought out some ridiculously cheap 200 watt Class D amps.
So, here is the meat of the problem. How to provide enough baffle for the Delta 8's to work to around 80 to 100 Hz, but still have a cardioid pattern at the low frequencies and also match the nude Lowthers radiation pattern at about 300 Hz?
Below is my first cut at a design. I know it looks finished, but this is just the way I go about things. I lay out my thoughts in solid modeling, with as much attention to all of the competing needs as I can muster, and then begin to tear away at it, trying to optimize the model. This does give me plans at the end and a good idea of where I am journeying to. For scale, the top of the Lowther is 46 inches off of the floor and the baffle is 11 1/2 inches wide. The funny looking swoops in the bass section openings come from Carlson speakers from long ago. The damping material is cut cotton wall insulation (chopped Jeans actually) and comes highly recommended for this application.
My hope is that some of you, who actually know the pit falls of OB design, will chime in and point out my excesses and short comings. As always, all comments are welcome.
Bud
I have been thinking about an open baffle EnABL project for a few months now. It seemed the natural thing to do, what with most of the arguing having calmed down and life having gotten boring once again.
Back a couple of years ago, I was horse traded a pair of Lowther PM6A, 16 ohm, silver voice coil drivers. Each of us thinks he got the best part of the deal, so it was a good trade. I have been thinking about what to do with these great big sunflowers for all of this time. I looked at Bushorns, Azura horns, back wave horn cabinets, multi way weird and conventional cabinets and just could not get excited about any of them.
I kept remembering how truly musical and engaging the last pair of EnABL'd Lowthers, also PM6A drivers, had sounded, just sitting nude on my test stands. In addition I worked on a pair of Emmi Beta 8 drivers for Gary Pimm and once they were as tamed as I could get them, I was struck by how articulate they were in the mid bass and down. But I really did not want to have to fight my way through those Raleigh wave jungles again.
Another person, John Hasquin, asked me if I had treated any Emmi Delta Pro 8 drivers with EnaBL. I hadn't even heard of them, but on exploring, I found a person willing to sell me a pair of 16 ohm drivers. They have the same motor as the Beta 8, a cast basket and a cone from a company Emmi purchased a few years ago. John says they are very very good, in one of his recent tapped horn enclosure experiments and I do rather trust his opinions.
So, I have a Lowther, useful with 7 watts and a Delta Pro 8, useful with 225 watts. I do not expect to ever listen to either at more than about 100 db spl, so I have a lot of spare capacity to devote to matching and equalization.
And in comes another of those interesting moments in life. Panomaniac and Gary Pimm, both, had been on about how good a Berringer DCX 24/96 was, after you replaced the op amps on input and output, with high quality transformers. Rene' Jaeger then opined that the DAC's ought to be replaced also, with units that do not have an embedded op amp.
I, on another hand, had been experimenting with transformer volume controls, with 80% nickle core, full isolation, a small gap to flatten the permeability curve and 24 steps, with a primary tap to allow half steps between, ala Dave Slagle's (Intact Audio) excellent tapped autoformer's.
Hmm I thought, how about the TVC's on the outputs, to allow the DCX to run at full bit rate and control the volume to set levels for a tri amp mode, for Lowther, Delta 8 and a sub woofer? And of course, a TVC as master gain for the input. Oh boy, this was way beyond my capabilities, but those who know how didn't seem worried at all.
So, now for that pesky bottom end. Gary Pimm had already demonstrated just how good a John K cardioid bass set up could be. But he is using 15 inch pro sound woofers and a Crown monster amp, along with significant EQ from the Berringer to generate 16 Hz at 110 dB spl.
Not going to happen in my home, somewhat unfortunately. However, could I get a pair of low efficiency Tang Band W8-740 P woofers per side, in a V mounting, with a 54 inch cardioid path length, to provide decent bass, to maybe 103 db spl? They are only 84 db sensitive, but they will absorb 150 watts of power and Sure just brought out some ridiculously cheap 200 watt Class D amps.
So, here is the meat of the problem. How to provide enough baffle for the Delta 8's to work to around 80 to 100 Hz, but still have a cardioid pattern at the low frequencies and also match the nude Lowthers radiation pattern at about 300 Hz?
Below is my first cut at a design. I know it looks finished, but this is just the way I go about things. I lay out my thoughts in solid modeling, with as much attention to all of the competing needs as I can muster, and then begin to tear away at it, trying to optimize the model. This does give me plans at the end and a good idea of where I am journeying to. For scale, the top of the Lowther is 46 inches off of the floor and the baffle is 11 1/2 inches wide. The funny looking swoops in the bass section openings come from Carlson speakers from long ago. The damping material is cut cotton wall insulation (chopped Jeans actually) and comes highly recommended for this application.
My hope is that some of you, who actually know the pit falls of OB design, will chime in and point out my excesses and short comings. As always, all comments are welcome.
Bud
Attachments
Can you share us what your plan for the xo points?
For the lowther driver, nude = small circular baffle, and this may result in "perfect" dipole null and peaks. The distance should be irregular (like a rectangle) so the response is smoothed out. But the only way to find out is measure it.
For the lowther driver, nude = small circular baffle, and this may result in "perfect" dipole null and peaks. The distance should be irregular (like a rectangle) so the response is smoothed out. But the only way to find out is measure it.
At the moment near 80 Hz from the sub to Delta Pro 8 and 300 Hz from the Delta 8 to the Lowther. I am not fixed upon these frequencies but they seem to fit the drivers in question.
The previously treated Lowther PM6A was an exceptional sounding Omni driver and the pair were in Jon VerHalen's small OB, A/B comparison, at the 2008 RMAF, between EnABL'd and non EnABL'd drivers. Audible characteristics are very smooth, with broad high frequency dispersion. I realize this is counter to orthodox understanding, but it is what I found with the drivers at hand when operating nude. Greater than 60 degrees swept for high frequencies will be more or less wasted in any case. The Lowther mounting frame is a loose square in shape and this may be helpful.
I have attached the data sheets for the Delta 8 driver. I have no data sheet for the Lowther and the Tang Band sheet is too large for my access level to attach to this thread.
Bud
The previously treated Lowther PM6A was an exceptional sounding Omni driver and the pair were in Jon VerHalen's small OB, A/B comparison, at the 2008 RMAF, between EnABL'd and non EnABL'd drivers. Audible characteristics are very smooth, with broad high frequency dispersion. I realize this is counter to orthodox understanding, but it is what I found with the drivers at hand when operating nude. Greater than 60 degrees swept for high frequencies will be more or less wasted in any case. The Lowther mounting frame is a loose square in shape and this may be helpful.
I have attached the data sheets for the Delta 8 driver. I have no data sheet for the Lowther and the Tang Band sheet is too large for my access level to attach to this thread.
Bud
This is really ‘out of the box’ thinking, Bud.
And a really intercontinental driver choice too.
There are just two points to discuss from my side:
I would prefer a single central back spine to the double one that you feature. The two spines will cause some reflections between them and will partly block the radiation to the back sides, because each of them is not symmetrical to the source.
I have no experience with Karlson slots, so I cannot comment whether they will work. But I know how they are supposed to function. They won’t work the way you have positioned them. The slots are meant as terminations of a pipe, transmission line or however you call it. They have to be ‘in line’ with that pipe (the U frame), but not perpendicular, as you did them. I once saw a U-frame design on diyaudio with the slots at the right position, but can’t remember who did it (Gary Pimm?).
Rudolf
And a really intercontinental driver choice too.
There are just two points to discuss from my side:
I would prefer a single central back spine to the double one that you feature. The two spines will cause some reflections between them and will partly block the radiation to the back sides, because each of them is not symmetrical to the source.
I have no experience with Karlson slots, so I cannot comment whether they will work. But I know how they are supposed to function. They won’t work the way you have positioned them. The slots are meant as terminations of a pipe, transmission line or however you call it. They have to be ‘in line’ with that pipe (the U frame), but not perpendicular, as you did them. I once saw a U-frame design on diyaudio with the slots at the right position, but can’t remember who did it (Gary Pimm?).
Rudolf
The Beta 8's, with an Fs of ~70 Hz and a qts of 0.22, will (on your proposed minimal baffle), drop like a stone at around 200Hz (or higher). You could apply a lot of EQ, but it would make more sense to go with a more conventional U-frame bass module and take advantage of the natural high pass characteristics that the Beta 8's are presenting you (by crossing in that region).
If you want the minimalist look, (but don't want to deal with the choppy nulls and peaks) maybe you should look into clear acrylic baffles(?).
If you want the minimalist look, (but don't want to deal with the choppy nulls and peaks) maybe you should look into clear acrylic baffles(?).
Hi Bud,
I have been experimenting a lot with naked driver dipoles in the past. I know it is a very tempting idea because naked drivers always sound the least coloured and faster then baffle mounted drivers. I have done this with 8" drivers as well and from my experiments I can give you a couple of hints.
First of all, the Lowther will never work cleanly to 300Hz, even with eq it's not going to work out right. It does work but that's about all, do not expect the very best quality of it at the end. They will work pretty good however from 600-800Hz on up, this way the driver is used almost completely above it's pistonic range frequency and becomes a true dipole. Below about 500-600Hz Hz the response will drop like a stone anayway. I also thought I good get away with drivers used this way but then I realsied that I was listening to the drivers on the test bench when I liked them so much baffleless. In other words, I was listening to them pretty close range, once you start listening to it at greater distance the behaviour is completely different, all of the great fantastic midbass htat I have heard on the testbench has gone completely.
Same for the delta pro 8, response will drop from 300Hz and has to be compensated for. Since it's a low q driver my estimate is that it will work from max 120-150Hz on up, with lots of eq. No way to get a good clean 80Hz from them on a baffle like this, unless you listen very close range at 50 cm from the drivers or so.
Offcoarse all drivers can be eq'ed down to the desired crossover frequencies but it will start to sound compressed with a wrong power response and integrating the driver in a proper way is going to be a hell of a job.
I would look more at a low frequency solution from fo to 200-250Hz (also pretty hard to accomplish in dipole or cardioid) the Delta pro 8 from 200-250 to 600-800Hz and the lowther from 600-800|Hz on up depending on filter slopes, room positioning, etc etc
just my 2 cents
I have been experimenting a lot with naked driver dipoles in the past. I know it is a very tempting idea because naked drivers always sound the least coloured and faster then baffle mounted drivers. I have done this with 8" drivers as well and from my experiments I can give you a couple of hints.
First of all, the Lowther will never work cleanly to 300Hz, even with eq it's not going to work out right. It does work but that's about all, do not expect the very best quality of it at the end. They will work pretty good however from 600-800Hz on up, this way the driver is used almost completely above it's pistonic range frequency and becomes a true dipole. Below about 500-600Hz Hz the response will drop like a stone anayway. I also thought I good get away with drivers used this way but then I realsied that I was listening to the drivers on the test bench when I liked them so much baffleless. In other words, I was listening to them pretty close range, once you start listening to it at greater distance the behaviour is completely different, all of the great fantastic midbass htat I have heard on the testbench has gone completely.
Same for the delta pro 8, response will drop from 300Hz and has to be compensated for. Since it's a low q driver my estimate is that it will work from max 120-150Hz on up, with lots of eq. No way to get a good clean 80Hz from them on a baffle like this, unless you listen very close range at 50 cm from the drivers or so.
Offcoarse all drivers can be eq'ed down to the desired crossover frequencies but it will start to sound compressed with a wrong power response and integrating the driver in a proper way is going to be a hell of a job.
I would look more at a low frequency solution from fo to 200-250Hz (also pretty hard to accomplish in dipole or cardioid) the Delta pro 8 from 200-250 to 600-800Hz and the lowther from 600-800|Hz on up depending on filter slopes, room positioning, etc etc
just my 2 cents
Thanks for all of the information.
So, it sounds as though a set of wings, angled to minimize reflections and deep enough to allow a reasonable amount of power below 300 Hz will be needed for the Delta pro 8. Gary Pimm has done this so I can ask him about his choices.
I was providing that bullet shape to encourage the same high frequency radiation from the Delta 8 as the Lowther will have, when nude. I do not yet see a way to encourage that with wings, unless a swept angle to the wings will work to give me a sliding frequency response due to differing path length. I don't imagine that would work though.
I will say that I find all of the treated 8 inch drivers to have audible bass down to about 80 Hz. I suppose that this must be from room and floor gain, as the drivers are only 30" off of the floor and the same distance from a brick back wall. This with a listening distance of about 6 feet and 20 degrees off axis, in a room with very good damping, 16 X 18 feet, with a stair well for the last 3 of the 18 feet.
So now, some more thinking. Again, thanks for the comments from all of you, very helpful indeed.
Bud
So, it sounds as though a set of wings, angled to minimize reflections and deep enough to allow a reasonable amount of power below 300 Hz will be needed for the Delta pro 8. Gary Pimm has done this so I can ask him about his choices.
I was providing that bullet shape to encourage the same high frequency radiation from the Delta 8 as the Lowther will have, when nude. I do not yet see a way to encourage that with wings, unless a swept angle to the wings will work to give me a sliding frequency response due to differing path length. I don't imagine that would work though.
I will say that I find all of the treated 8 inch drivers to have audible bass down to about 80 Hz. I suppose that this must be from room and floor gain, as the drivers are only 30" off of the floor and the same distance from a brick back wall. This with a listening distance of about 6 feet and 20 degrees off axis, in a room with very good damping, 16 X 18 feet, with a stair well for the last 3 of the 18 feet.
So now, some more thinking. Again, thanks for the comments from all of you, very helpful indeed.
Bud
The exponential slot in back is perhaps just a funny shaped vent...
But the one in front looks to be a functional Koupler of some sort.
At least the reverb and dispersion aspects would be functional.
But may be above the cutoff of your crossover anyways...
I don't think bass is significantly enhanced by Karlson impedance
transformation, unless you pony up somehow with missing 2/3 of
the line. Doesn't have to be achieved entirely by length, JEK often
abused an extra resonant chamber to delay the phase and achieve
near full effect.
You might just have a 6th order bandpass box there, however...
And you can't argue with the style and appearance.
But the drivers for the sub.... KappaPro10 would have been far
superior to TBW8-740 in the frequency range you are likely to
achieve in such small boxes with such large vents.
Last edited:
Hi all,
Well, after many other design paths I have returned to the original, with the following change.
The Delta 8 is now firing into an non parallel wall, open back box baffle, with significant levels of damping, using chopped cotton rag pressed into sheets. With some 33 inches of physical linear distance, from outer cone edge, back to front, I am assuming a roll off point beginig at about 130 Hz.
If you think about this design keep in mind that I am after peaks of 103 dB from 35 Hz to 18 kHz, with average spl down in the mid 80's. And, all crossover and frequency response / spl EQ will occur in the digital domain, at 24/96, with absolute spl to be determined with stepped transformer attenuators that are isolation style, not an autoformer, and with micro gaps in the distributed gap core structure, using 80% nickle.
The Lowther amp will indeed be a push pull SS voltage and current gain driver section, using a Pimm CCS for input splitter. This signal to be combined in a PP to SE interstage, driving a 300 B with plate choke and level three SE OPT, with only a 16 ohm secondary and 48% nickle core.
The Lowthers are now EnaBL'd and are capable of very even output to 300 Hz, nude on a pedestal, though there has to be some floor gain involved, and the stepped attenuator transformers are finished winding. And now begins the connection of hundreds of coil wires to appropriate lugs on the Electro Switch two wafer switches.
Wonder if I will live long enough to finish this?
Bud
Well, after many other design paths I have returned to the original, with the following change.
The Delta 8 is now firing into an non parallel wall, open back box baffle, with significant levels of damping, using chopped cotton rag pressed into sheets. With some 33 inches of physical linear distance, from outer cone edge, back to front, I am assuming a roll off point beginig at about 130 Hz.
If you think about this design keep in mind that I am after peaks of 103 dB from 35 Hz to 18 kHz, with average spl down in the mid 80's. And, all crossover and frequency response / spl EQ will occur in the digital domain, at 24/96, with absolute spl to be determined with stepped transformer attenuators that are isolation style, not an autoformer, and with micro gaps in the distributed gap core structure, using 80% nickle.
The Lowther amp will indeed be a push pull SS voltage and current gain driver section, using a Pimm CCS for input splitter. This signal to be combined in a PP to SE interstage, driving a 300 B with plate choke and level three SE OPT, with only a 16 ohm secondary and 48% nickle core.
The Lowthers are now EnaBL'd and are capable of very even output to 300 Hz, nude on a pedestal, though there has to be some floor gain involved, and the stepped attenuator transformers are finished winding. And now begins the connection of hundreds of coil wires to appropriate lugs on the Electro Switch two wafer switches.
Wonder if I will live long enough to finish this?
Bud
Attachments
Hey Bud.
This 2nd take looks a lot better to me. At least the Delta now has a chance of playing down low enough to meet the woofers.
I have found that asymmetric wings in the back work best, but with all your cotton stuffing, that may not be an issue. It sure works for Gary.
I would still be surprised if the Lowther plays down to 300Hz, but you said you heard it. As long as it's ~6dB down at that point, you should be OK.
Not a clue as to how the bass section will work!😱
Looking forward to your stepped transformer.
This 2nd take looks a lot better to me. At least the Delta now has a chance of playing down low enough to meet the woofers.
I have found that asymmetric wings in the back work best, but with all your cotton stuffing, that may not be an issue. It sure works for Gary.
I would still be surprised if the Lowther plays down to 300Hz, but you said you heard it. As long as it's ~6dB down at that point, you should be OK.
Not a clue as to how the bass section will work!😱
Looking forward to your stepped transformer.
Well, I haven't a clue how the bass section will work either. The containment box is scaled to the drivers and the overall length of path is identical to Gary Pimms rather overwhelming bass cubical, with the same type of damping to be used to turn it into a cardioid style open baffle, as presented by John K. Plus the 15mm of linear Xmax. I did wonder about KenPeter's comment about a sixth order bandpass box and what that meant, perhaps he will elaborate?
I have attached a pic of the runner up. A 12 inch Audio Nirvana driver and a 15 inch Goldman $50 woofer for drivers. The AN 12 to run OB and the 15 inch to have the cardioid box.
Sue was utterly uninterested in having boxes this big, with drivers this big. sitting in our living room, Overall is 18 inches wide X 24 deep and 46 inches to the top of the Lowther mounting buss.
Bud
I have attached a pic of the runner up. A 12 inch Audio Nirvana driver and a 15 inch Goldman $50 woofer for drivers. The AN 12 to run OB and the 15 inch to have the cardioid box.
Sue was utterly uninterested in having boxes this big, with drivers this big. sitting in our living room, Overall is 18 inches wide X 24 deep and 46 inches to the top of the Lowther mounting buss.
Bud
Attachments
Smart gal! 😀
Do you have a pair of the AN12 or is that just an idea? There are some great 12s out there that could do well on OB. But remember, the width of the baffle is going to limit how low the driver can play, be it an 8, 10 or 12. That's why Gary's work so well. All that stuffing behind the 8 attenuates the rear wave and keeps most of it from wrapping around to cancel the front wave. Just stating the obvious, but it's important.
If you can get the mid driver down low enough, then you might be able to "hide" the subs somewhere. Better for domestic bliss.
(oh BTW, I like the bamboo baffles)
BudP,
"In addition I worked on a pair of Emmi Beta 8 drivers for Gary Pimm and once they were as tamed as I could get them,"
I am thinking of using the Beta 8 and Hi-VI RT8II similar to to G. Pimm combo. I tried to ask him but he was too busy to response to my email.
Would you be able to tell me how you tame the Beta 8 driver? Did you do any major surgery?
Thanks.
"In addition I worked on a pair of Emmi Beta 8 drivers for Gary Pimm and once they were as tamed as I could get them,"
I am thinking of using the Beta 8 and Hi-VI RT8II similar to to G. Pimm combo. I tried to ask him but he was too busy to response to my email.
Would you be able to tell me how you tame the Beta 8 driver? Did you do any major surgery?
Thanks.
titan98,
Here is the text posting for the EnABL treatment.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques - Page 26 - diyAudio
The pattern guides are at the bottom of the page.
Here are the pictures on my EnABL Picassa site
Picasa Web Albums - Bud - Emminance Bet...
The pics need to be copied and have the gamma reduced so you can actually see the patterns, which were applied with clear flat acrylic paint, usually referred to as "stealth".
I did not perform any surgery on the speaker. I will say that releasing the driver from resonance captivity did cause it to become down right explosive in character. For that reason I have gone to the Delta 8 for my open baffle project.
I am expecting these to be a bit better behaved. I will say that I liked the EnABL'd Beta 8 sound character and Gary seems to like them, once he applied some EQ to get them to match what they were like when EQ'd and not treated. He did say the EQ was much simpler and not nearly as much and that the system gained about three times the information content with the EnABL'd mid drivers. Maggie told him to leave them where they are and not screw with them any more, as the sound was to her liking.
Getting Gary to respond to emails is a hopeless endeavor. I am fortunate enough to live on the same end of the continent as he does, so I just call him and harass him. He has had a lot on his plate lately too.
Bud
Here is the text posting for the EnABL treatment.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques - Page 26 - diyAudio
The pattern guides are at the bottom of the page.
Here are the pictures on my EnABL Picassa site
Picasa Web Albums - Bud - Emminance Bet...
The pics need to be copied and have the gamma reduced so you can actually see the patterns, which were applied with clear flat acrylic paint, usually referred to as "stealth".
I did not perform any surgery on the speaker. I will say that releasing the driver from resonance captivity did cause it to become down right explosive in character. For that reason I have gone to the Delta 8 for my open baffle project.
I am expecting these to be a bit better behaved. I will say that I liked the EnABL'd Beta 8 sound character and Gary seems to like them, once he applied some EQ to get them to match what they were like when EQ'd and not treated. He did say the EQ was much simpler and not nearly as much and that the system gained about three times the information content with the EnABL'd mid drivers. Maggie told him to leave them where they are and not screw with them any more, as the sound was to her liking.
Getting Gary to respond to emails is a hopeless endeavor. I am fortunate enough to live on the same end of the continent as he does, so I just call him and harass him. He has had a lot on his plate lately too.
Bud
Last edited:
That's good, as she considers herself quite a "Hi-Fi snob". 🙂
Wish I could have heard the new drivers, but left town before they got there.
Hey Bud,
I think your #1 in the end will be about as good as it gets once you get the XO to your likeing. I suspect it might be higher then 300, but not the end of the world by no means .I run naked mids now but much higher XO like 1k, then off to 6k to meet a decent tweeter. 077 in my case. The differance in naked upper mids & baffled is large IMO ..I would really try going with your original scheme, I don't feel version 2 could compete with #1,Also image & stage is over the top with naked mids..*s*
Good luck & get that built..!!!!!!!!
ps..My amp signal chassis is done & thanks for setting me straight on the IT's the other day. Allways a kick talking with ya.
Joe Parcher
I think your #1 in the end will be about as good as it gets once you get the XO to your likeing. I suspect it might be higher then 300, but not the end of the world by no means .I run naked mids now but much higher XO like 1k, then off to 6k to meet a decent tweeter. 077 in my case. The differance in naked upper mids & baffled is large IMO ..I would really try going with your original scheme, I don't feel version 2 could compete with #1,Also image & stage is over the top with naked mids..*s*
Good luck & get that built..!!!!!!!!
ps..My amp signal chassis is done & thanks for setting me straight on the IT's the other day. Allways a kick talking with ya.
Joe Parcher
Hi Joe,
So, what did Dave Slagle and Arn come up with?
I agree with you on the nude drivers. And, EnaBL'd drivers do seem to work especially nicely with nothing around them, with the Lowthers being near perfect omni drivers. Hopefully the Berringer DSP will provide enough compensation tweak to match everything up, though a series crossover for Lowther and Delta also looks very attractive. Certainly would sound better than parallel devices, when done properly.
Bud
So, what did Dave Slagle and Arn come up with?
I agree with you on the nude drivers. And, EnaBL'd drivers do seem to work especially nicely with nothing around them, with the Lowthers being near perfect omni drivers. Hopefully the Berringer DSP will provide enough compensation tweak to match everything up, though a series crossover for Lowther and Delta also looks very attractive. Certainly would sound better than parallel devices, when done properly.
Bud
This was the result & circuit is from Lars or reVintage. The signal chassis is complete & wired & now building seperate PS for drivers, outputs & g2. I surely look forward to your speaker project. This paticular speaker project IMO has major big league appeal in sonics.
Joe
Joe
Attachments
And here is the revised large system. Using an 8 and 12 inch Audio Nirvana and a 16 ohm 15 inch woofer from a suitable pro audio source. The crossover would be a series type, with the two AN's in series and a roll off applied to the 12 inch as a filter, to kill lobbing.
All drivers would be EnABL'd of course. I now have experience with 8, 12 & 15 inch AN's and can say they are extremely good drivers before EnABL and sensational after wards. Not quite as attractively dynamic as a Lowther PM6A but every bit as clear and downward dynamic.
Incidentally the 15 inch AN is to be used as a guitar speaker and I have to say it does get out of it's own way, unlike all other 15 inch drivers I have experience with. I have no idea of it's longevity in this use. However, a 15 that will play anything from screaming shred metal, with an infinite number of layers of distortion to piezo pickup, acoustic flamenco and bossa nova, without any edge or shriek, is sure to be sought after when it comes to market. Perhaps the AN mfg will produce a high temp version.
Bud
All drivers would be EnABL'd of course. I now have experience with 8, 12 & 15 inch AN's and can say they are extremely good drivers before EnABL and sensational after wards. Not quite as attractively dynamic as a Lowther PM6A but every bit as clear and downward dynamic.
Incidentally the 15 inch AN is to be used as a guitar speaker and I have to say it does get out of it's own way, unlike all other 15 inch drivers I have experience with. I have no idea of it's longevity in this use. However, a 15 that will play anything from screaming shred metal, with an infinite number of layers of distortion to piezo pickup, acoustic flamenco and bossa nova, without any edge or shriek, is sure to be sought after when it comes to market. Perhaps the AN mfg will produce a high temp version.
Bud
Attachments
- Status
- Not open for further replies.