infinia said:
Aside from the observation that those are dangerously high SPL's, and personally don't make sense for any domestic situation I've ever encountered, I'd suggest that for a system with these capabilities, you'd need to look at professional PA gear.
Our friend Mr Weldon might well have some suggestions, but it's probably safe to say that the components and enclosures wouldn't be tiny.
http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=MT27KITA
A bookshelf kit, available from css, duh. Im sure most people know about it, but anyways i thought it was worth a discussion. Atleast the drivers it utilizes are.
A bookshelf kit, available from css, duh. Im sure most people know about it, but anyways i thought it was worth a discussion. Atleast the drivers it utilizes are.
chrisb said:
Cool I guess I'm considered undomesticated by someones standards.
I like to crank it sometimes when I'm feeling good you know like it's party time.I wouldn't label 105 dB/m dangerous... IMO the short term transients are less than some everyday industial environments (think big saws/planers and nail guns). Like I said I just really want to know if they can keep up with a good 7" and 1" dome that's all. No PA needed thanks.
planet10 said:
105 dB by looking at what the 10" peerless can do at Xmax, so with baffle step the mid/tweet s/b around 100 dB on paper. But I run stuff hotter than the limits Unibox gives but really depending on the musical content. So subjective opinions would be useful by experienced buiders I think. I normally use morel/dynaudio 28mm ferrofluid tweets and a usher 7" midbass.
infinia said:
Cool I guess I'm considered undomesticated by someones standards.
I wouldn't label 105 dB/m dangerous... IMO the short term transients are less than some everyday industial environments (think big saws/planers and nail guns). Like I said I just really want to know if they can keep up with a good 7" and 1" dome that's all. No PA needed thanks.
You might want to consider:
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html
sorry, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, so here goes:
I've worked in an industrial woodworking shop for over 15years with virtually every type of heavy equipment and hand held power tool you're likely to find. 8 hours of exposure to in excess of (measured) 95dBA is freaking loud, even with custom molded hearing protection.
We get our hearing tested every year for WCB, and while the degree varies among individuals ( age certainly being a contributing factor ), no matter whether it's old guys like me (58) or the young-ens (18yrs), after the second year, there is almost universal pattern of increasing deterioration in overall sensitivity, low level acuity and high frequency response. Furthermore, in my own case, the exposure has precipitated and exacerbated non-stop tinitus, which can vary in intensity and pitch or beating. You can listen through it to a degree, but not without fatigue.
No doubt a PA, home or car audio system can be assembled that attains or even surpasses the 120dB levels without gross levels of distortion, but that doesn't mean prolonged exposure is safe or sane.
when it's gone, it's gone
sorry, rant off
As for " keeping up with a good 7" (mid/bass) and 1" dome ", it's probably safe to say that's very subjective.
The lack of XO networks in the most critically sensitive range of the telephone band is a major advantage that a "good" single driver or FAST system can have over the more conventional multiway. For many listeners, what the simpler systems lack in brute strength and extreme extension, they more than make up in terms of intimacy, micro-dynamics, inner detail and texture, soundstage dimension, to name a few aspects of the musicality of the event for which there are no standardized metrics.
Hell, the same could be said for the magic dance that some of us feel between a 3 watt DHT and high efficiency single driver BLH, but that's another can of worms that needn't be opened today....
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Dave,
I'm exploring two options that may end up being similar.
One option is a PMC DB1+ clone [http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144212]
Second option is a modified Tysen. By modified I mean I'd like to fold the TL to make a smaller table-top or stand-mounting speaker.
In the end, the difference between these options may be down to a choice of XO frequency and front vs side mounted woofer.
What's your advice, opinion etc. on comparing these options ???
I'm exploring two options that may end up being similar.
One option is a PMC DB1+ clone [http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144212]
Second option is a modified Tysen. By modified I mean I'd like to fold the TL to make a smaller table-top or stand-mounting speaker.
In the end, the difference between these options may be down to a choice of XO frequency and front vs side mounted woofer.
What's your advice, opinion etc. on comparing these options ???
Every design has its trade-offs. Even Tysen as it is could be shrunk, and/or made more compact.
SDX7 works in as little as 7 litres (Q=0.7). If you can live with a bump (Q=1.1) you can squeeze it into 3.5 litre. The length of the TL in Tysen is only as long as is needed to side-mount the SDX7.
dave
SDX7 works in as little as 7 litres (Q=0.7). If you can live with a bump (Q=1.1) you can squeeze it into 3.5 litre. The length of the TL in Tysen is only as long as is needed to side-mount the SDX7.
dave
Here is what i mean... this is the one with the 3.5 litre bass enclosure.
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/miniTysen-0v7-map-200509.pdf
You could substitute Alpair 5 or 6 or a 3" HiVi or a TB or ...
dave
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/miniTysen-0v7-map-200509.pdf
You could substitute Alpair 5 or 6 or a 3" HiVi or a TB or ...
dave
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Bigun said:
With an Alpair 5 @200Hz, you'll need a steep slope xover. The Alpair 5 doesn't like bass nor power. You should consider higher.
Directionality: This is somewhat listener dependent, room dependent, source material dependent, distance from the drivers, and frequency dependent. The steeper the slope on the woofer LP filter, the higher Fc can be without noticing the driver's location. 250Hz 2nd order is a good compromise/starting point.
40Hz from a sealed enclosure requires either a 12" or larger driver or a good equalizer. I suppose it's possible with the SDX7. Predicted F3 in 3.5L for the SDX7 is ~80Hz. The bump mentioned by Dave is somewhat configurable by adding stuffing to the enclosure. A lot would depend on how much "free air" is around the speakers and how much room gain is added.
If you're not using a sub, I'd consider the SEAS L16RN-SL. Linkwitz used it in his Pluto II (a FAST design). It likes small vented enclosures and provides very good, low-distortion bass (45Hz). It's smaller in size and cheaper (at least in the US).
HareBrained said:
The XO on Tysen is 333. I'd do the A5 exactly the same way. On Tyson the speakers are toed in quite dramatically, the combination of that, the slow XO on the woofer, makes for a pretty seamless blend.
I'd expect these little ones would be more of a super hi-end computer speaker, because if you need to put them on stands, why not just extend the box to the floor.
With that consideration a lower cross is doablable without overload.
I have been using uFonken with dual SDX7 XOed at a 100 Hz 2nd order both sides. When i get a chance to do a new XO i'll move that up a bit, but even there i have few issues with strain.
dave
HareBrained said:
With a bit of EQ i've had SDX7 reaching 25-30 Hz in room (measured). A Linkwitz transform could be used with the smaller box (at a level/power requirement cost).
I usually look at the F10 as more indicative of how low these go.
Attached is the example sim i did for the sealed SDX7 (volume, 3.5/7/14/21 litres, no stuffing)
dave
Attachments
Round two for me and the FAST sysytem. This round I'm going with a Dynaudio 15W75-08 ported at 50hz and a single CHR-70 in an open baffle. Preliminary listening crossed at 350Hz near Textbook sounds very very good if I must say so myself, although in bastardised boxes LOL.
The bass from the 15W75 is very fast articulate and controled compared to many midbasses I've used, Hence why I still have them and use them frequently. They ChR-70's perform like they were meant to work in this role, seamless integration and damn near the best mids I've heard from a fullrange, next to the stock Fostex FF85K it is much more detailed due to the metal cone yet lacks the extended top end of the FF85K, something I do enjoy about the FF85K.
Even though the listed efficiency of the CHR-70 is slightly higher than the 15W75 the open baffle seems to compensate for the slight differences.
As with the Tysen this combo is limited to 105-110dB peaks, so more a small room type speaker but within it's limitation it's pretty neat to see these things blow some of my higher end drivers away. I was feeding them power Bi-amped passively with 45-50W LM3875 Gainclones, but the impedance of the CHR-70's drops below 3Ohms and the gainclones even though they don't even burp get reletively hot with that load. So even driven with one amp these sing like some mega big buck contenders, I'll post a pic once non prototype enclosures are built but it may be some time as I have 2 stereo F5's on the go currently so they take front row seating in the project arena.
I'll keep an eye on you Tysen progress, as I may try a Passive Line Level X-over when the F5's are done, anyway these FAST systems are quickly becoming a favorite system of mine to build, Peace and keep well.
Speaks
The bass from the 15W75 is very fast articulate and controled compared to many midbasses I've used, Hence why I still have them and use them frequently. They ChR-70's perform like they were meant to work in this role, seamless integration and damn near the best mids I've heard from a fullrange, next to the stock Fostex FF85K it is much more detailed due to the metal cone yet lacks the extended top end of the FF85K, something I do enjoy about the FF85K.
Even though the listed efficiency of the CHR-70 is slightly higher than the 15W75 the open baffle seems to compensate for the slight differences.
As with the Tysen this combo is limited to 105-110dB peaks, so more a small room type speaker but within it's limitation it's pretty neat to see these things blow some of my higher end drivers away. I was feeding them power Bi-amped passively with 45-50W LM3875 Gainclones, but the impedance of the CHR-70's drops below 3Ohms and the gainclones even though they don't even burp get reletively hot with that load. So even driven with one amp these sing like some mega big buck contenders, I'll post a pic once non prototype enclosures are built but it may be some time as I have 2 stereo F5's on the go currently so they take front row seating in the project arena.
I'll keep an eye on you Tysen progress, as I may try a Passive Line Level X-over when the F5's are done, anyway these FAST systems are quickly becoming a favorite system of mine to build, Peace and keep well.
Speaks
