this layout of double 8inch is very promising
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...tive-tapped-horn-project-271.html#post1712682
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...tive-tapped-horn-project-267.html#post1711623
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...tive-tapped-horn-project-271.html#post1712682
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...tive-tapped-horn-project-267.html#post1711623
thanks , that shed some light on my question re 6th order and helps me sim my drivers in winisd .
A quick question to those in the know.
Would these drivers FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 12PR300 work in a ppsl? I don't need to go too high, just 200hz down.
Would these drivers FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 12PR300 work in a ppsl? I don't need to go too high, just 200hz down.
Any driver.
Ppsl can be ported, sealed, tl, or even linkwitz transform eq it flat to 8hz.
6th order is just another way to do a ported.
It works well for qts under say .35 because it gives you a small box, you use drivers with usually higher sensitivity, but you need 6db of boost at tuning. Otherwise, a qts .35 would have less low bass ported and especially sealed than a driver with qts .4, but a qts .4 ideally wants a ported box as big as its vas (big).
Ppsl can be ported, sealed, tl, or even linkwitz transform eq it flat to 8hz.
6th order is just another way to do a ported.
It works well for qts under say .35 because it gives you a small box, you use drivers with usually higher sensitivity, but you need 6db of boost at tuning. Otherwise, a qts .35 would have less low bass ported and especially sealed than a driver with qts .4, but a qts .4 ideally wants a ported box as big as its vas (big).
http://www.faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=101050110
Run a sim on 3.3 cu ft (net) tuned to 42hz with a Q=2 filter at 42hz (two drivers).
Run a sim on 3.3 cu ft (net) tuned to 42hz with a Q=2 filter at 42hz (two drivers).
Thanks for the responses guys.
Ive been computerless for a while I'm afraid. All I've got is an iPad at the moment and I don't think I can run any software?
Could I prevail upon someone's kindness to help me out? 🙄😕
Ive been computerless for a while I'm afraid. All I've got is an iPad at the moment and I don't think I can run any software?
Could I prevail upon someone's kindness to help me out? 🙄😕
-3dB at 42hz (with filter)
Driver Properties
Name: 12PR300
Type: Standard one-way driver
No. of Drivers = 2
Mounting = Standard
Wiring = Parallel
Fs = 50 Hz
Qms = 9.9
Vas = 79.2 liters
Cms = 0.233 mm/N
Mms = 43.45 g
Rms = 1.379 kg/s
Xmax = 4.92 mm
Xmech = 7.38 mm
P-Dia = 249.5 mm
Sd = 489 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.241 liters
Qes = 0.37
Re = 5.4 ohms
Le = 0.42 mH
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 14.11 Tm
Pe = 300 watts
Qts = 0.357
no = 2.58 %
1-W SPL = 96.26 dB
2.83-V SPL = 97.97 dB
-----------------------------------------
Box Properties
Name:
Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
Shape: Prism, square (optimum)
Vb = 3.3 cu.ft
Fb = 42 Hz
QL = 6.61
F3 = 42.1 Hz
Fill = minimal
No. of Vents = 3
Vent shape = round
Vent ends = one flush
Dv = 4 in
Lv = 12.89 in
in
-----------------------------------------
Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
Fx = 42 Hz
Qx = 2
Using an amp bigger than 600W/4Ω will exceed x-max on program with sine-sweeps, probably not on real music.
Driver Properties
Name: 12PR300
Type: Standard one-way driver
No. of Drivers = 2
Mounting = Standard
Wiring = Parallel
Fs = 50 Hz
Qms = 9.9
Vas = 79.2 liters
Cms = 0.233 mm/N
Mms = 43.45 g
Rms = 1.379 kg/s
Xmax = 4.92 mm
Xmech = 7.38 mm
P-Dia = 249.5 mm
Sd = 489 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.241 liters
Qes = 0.37
Re = 5.4 ohms
Le = 0.42 mH
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 14.11 Tm
Pe = 300 watts
Qts = 0.357
no = 2.58 %
1-W SPL = 96.26 dB
2.83-V SPL = 97.97 dB
-----------------------------------------
Box Properties
Name:
Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
Shape: Prism, square (optimum)
Vb = 3.3 cu.ft
Fb = 42 Hz
QL = 6.61
F3 = 42.1 Hz
Fill = minimal
No. of Vents = 3
Vent shape = round
Vent ends = one flush
Dv = 4 in
Lv = 12.89 in
in
-----------------------------------------
Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
Fx = 42 Hz
Qx = 2
Using an amp bigger than 600W/4Ω will exceed x-max on program with sine-sweeps, probably not on real music.
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That is a fine choice of a driver for mid-bass applications. But, a "woofer" it is not. I am enjoying a cup of coffee and have a few minutes to spare, so I thought about JRKO's situation for a while. Assuming he wants twin 12's per side and decent bass, I thought I would look at what Parts Express has for their Dayton line of woofers. They also offer International shipping for our friends across the pond. I arrived at the Dayton Audio DS315-8. This driver fits into either a sealed enclosure, or a ported. A sealed gives you an F3 of 55Hz in a 1.4 EACH. A ported gets you down to 35Hz at the cost of 2.35 cubic foot for each driver, PLUS the plenum volume. This gets to be a large enclosure, so it would depend on JRKO's domestic situation. For me, I would choose the ported, and build the classic ppsl with the required (as large as you can fit) port along the bottom as per Les Hudson's basic design.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ds315-8-12-designer-series-woofer-speaker--295-434
I ran a BassBox Pro v6.0 on those drivers a while back, 42hz is as low as they will go in a PPSL.
A tapped horn could go lower, in a much bigger box.
A tapped horn could go lower, in a much bigger box.
Before I start building djk's 2x15 PPSL, can someone please help me do the hornresp using PD.1550 drivers?
Also, 1550s have a low Vas and a 0.29qts, what would be the best box dimension for a frequency response of 45-160hz to cross my community sls920?
Also, 1550s have a low Vas and a 0.29qts, what would be the best box dimension for a frequency response of 45-160hz to cross my community sls920?
How low do you want it to go?
The Fs=46hz, so it really won't go much lower than that, maybe 40hz if you need it to do so.
I downloaded the pdf on the 1550, and will take it home and run some design numbers on it, it looks like a good driver for a PPSL.
The Fs=46hz, so it really won't go much lower than that, maybe 40hz if you need it to do so.
I downloaded the pdf on the 1550, and will take it home and run some design numbers on it, it looks like a good driver for a PPSL.
Hi Djk,
40hz is good enough as I'm more concerned on the 150-160hz range capability of PPSL.
However, would you recommend it to cross that 150-160hz range and still sound good?
Thanks,
40hz is good enough as I'm more concerned on the 150-160hz range capability of PPSL.
However, would you recommend it to cross that 150-160hz range and still sound good?
Thanks,
Driver Properties
Name: PD.1550
Type: Standard one-way driver
No. of Drivers = 2
Mounting = Standard
Wiring = Parallel
Fs = 46.17 Hz
Qms = 13.87
Vas = 126.4 liters
Cms = 0.108 mm/N
Mms = 110.1 g
Rms = 2.302 kg/s
Xmax = 8.2 mm
Xmech = 12.3 mm
P-Dia = 340 mm
Sd = 907.9 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.744 liters
Qes = 0.3
Re = 6.59 ohms
Le = 0.78 mH
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 26.48 Tm
Pe = 600 watts
Qts = 0.294
no = 3.998 %
1-W SPL = 98.17 dB
2.83-V SPL = 99.01 dB
-----------------------------------------
Box Properties
Name:
Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
Shape: Prism, square
Vb = 5.25 cu.ft
Fb = 40 Hz
QL = 6.472
F3 = 39.99 Hz
Fill = minimal
No. of Vents = 2
Vent shape = other
Vent ends = one flush
Av = 36.93 sq.in
Lv = 16.49 in
-----------------------------------------
Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
Fx = 40 Hz
Qx = 2
Keeping the plenum as shallow as possible gives the highest bandwidth. A 16.5" (internal) deep plenum generally has a small peak in the 160hz~180hz range, followed by a small dip, and then falls off a cliff around 250hz or so. I have crossed as high as 250hz (without EQ) and got good results, generally to horn-loaded 12's.
Name: PD.1550
Type: Standard one-way driver
No. of Drivers = 2
Mounting = Standard
Wiring = Parallel
Fs = 46.17 Hz
Qms = 13.87
Vas = 126.4 liters
Cms = 0.108 mm/N
Mms = 110.1 g
Rms = 2.302 kg/s
Xmax = 8.2 mm
Xmech = 12.3 mm
P-Dia = 340 mm
Sd = 907.9 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.744 liters
Qes = 0.3
Re = 6.59 ohms
Le = 0.78 mH
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 26.48 Tm
Pe = 600 watts
Qts = 0.294
no = 3.998 %
1-W SPL = 98.17 dB
2.83-V SPL = 99.01 dB
-----------------------------------------
Box Properties
Name:
Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
Shape: Prism, square
Vb = 5.25 cu.ft
Fb = 40 Hz
QL = 6.472
F3 = 39.99 Hz
Fill = minimal
No. of Vents = 2
Vent shape = other
Vent ends = one flush
Av = 36.93 sq.in
Lv = 16.49 in
-----------------------------------------
Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
Fx = 40 Hz
Qx = 2
Keeping the plenum as shallow as possible gives the highest bandwidth. A 16.5" (internal) deep plenum generally has a small peak in the 160hz~180hz range, followed by a small dip, and then falls off a cliff around 250hz or so. I have crossed as high as 250hz (without EQ) and got good results, generally to horn-loaded 12's.
Last edited:
Hi Djk,
Thank you so much for the excellent support.
I will start sketching the enclosure/cabinet and will post it before doing the sawdust.
Is it possible to use a 15mm/11ply Baltic birch to cut of some weight or strictly go for the 18mm/13ply?
Thank you so much for the excellent support.
I will start sketching the enclosure/cabinet and will post it before doing the sawdust.
Is it possible to use a 15mm/11ply Baltic birch to cut of some weight or strictly go for the 18mm/13ply?
I've never made them out of 15mm.
I made one pair out of 12mm/9ply BB. They sounded OK, but it still made me nervous.
Yorkville uses 15mm (RCA fan, Bill Woods knows what he is doing).
My local yard only has 12mm or 18mm available.
A couple of pair I made around your size were 16.5" tall (inside), the width and depth were around 36" x 30" or so.
I made one pair out of 12mm/9ply BB. They sounded OK, but it still made me nervous.
Yorkville uses 15mm (RCA fan, Bill Woods knows what he is doing).
My local yard only has 12mm or 18mm available.
A couple of pair I made around your size were 16.5" tall (inside), the width and depth were around 36" x 30" or so.
Here s the dimension I came up with based on the 5.24 cu.ft.
L 27 1/2" x H 21 3/4" x D 23 5/8" (ext. dimension - 18mm/13ply)
Vent : L 16.49 in x W 2.24 in
Plenum : W 7" x D 16.5" x H 20 1/4"
Bracings: (1) One on each panel from vent area, rear panel, going around to the front chambers.
I wanted to use it on a portrait orientation to add height reducing the gap between mid tops and bass bin but I read some comments about the cone sag. I've also read your comment that the upright build is applicable to High Vas drivers.
Is it possible to just modify the original design (drivers still perpendicular to floor) by increasing the height while narrowing the 2 front chambers, total width based on the area of the 2 vents relocated underneath and retaining the 5.24 cu.ft volume?
I plan to have the enclosure in full grills, meaning there will be an extension of 2.5-3 cm on the front edge, will it affect the vent and plenum?
I might consider building enclosure using15mm birch ply with adequate bracings.
Djk, I saw a 15" Fane FC-153F01 driver and will try to post the full spec sheets. Seems like a very good candidate for PPSL and the price is only half of the PD.1550.
Thanks.
L 27 1/2" x H 21 3/4" x D 23 5/8" (ext. dimension - 18mm/13ply)
Vent : L 16.49 in x W 2.24 in
Plenum : W 7" x D 16.5" x H 20 1/4"
Bracings: (1) One on each panel from vent area, rear panel, going around to the front chambers.
I wanted to use it on a portrait orientation to add height reducing the gap between mid tops and bass bin but I read some comments about the cone sag. I've also read your comment that the upright build is applicable to High Vas drivers.
Is it possible to just modify the original design (drivers still perpendicular to floor) by increasing the height while narrowing the 2 front chambers, total width based on the area of the 2 vents relocated underneath and retaining the 5.24 cu.ft volume?
I plan to have the enclosure in full grills, meaning there will be an extension of 2.5-3 cm on the front edge, will it affect the vent and plenum?
I might consider building enclosure using15mm birch ply with adequate bracings.
Djk, I saw a 15" Fane FC-153F01 driver and will try to post the full spec sheets. Seems like a very good candidate for PPSL and the price is only half of the PD.1550.
Thanks.
Here's the PDF full spec sheet for Fane FC-153F01.
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/Fane-FC153F01-DS240316.pdf
Do you think this driver is better than the PD.1550?
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/Fane-FC153F01-DS240316.pdf
Do you think this driver is better than the PD.1550?