It's a bit hard to find stuff on it outside of the threads that Freddi and I have. Search for Karlson acoustic coupler. Those will discuss the impedance smoothing aspects more than the lens. The lens I found by applying the Karlson aperture to tiny 3in full range drivers. The other place they are used is the K-tube waveguide for CD's. One of the best smoothest sounding tweeters you can hear but unfortunately, it gets no respect or air time for its ugly pointed beak look. Dead simple to make even cardboard tube works.
Again, look for search with terms K-tube and Freddi or Klamman (Freddi's alter ego on other boards).
Basically it uses diffraction to force the sound through a smooth slit. The variable width nature allows different frequencies their ideal width to be used. The slowly and smoothly varying width makes a smooth transition.
Look for "speaker that kicks butt in large spaces" thread.
Thinking loud, if time allow you set it up again either with TC9FD or excellent 10F think Trynergy will benefit if you can get Harsch XO to function inside there, it will give much much less phase turn centered around 400Hz area where full ranger XO to tapped woofers. Probably raising performance and in long run if you by time get a miniSharck by FIR XO can get the hole Trynergy unit to act as was it only one minimum phase driver
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I can't say about the FF85wk, but i have directly compared stock 10F to FF85wKeN, the treated driver wins.
Next Saturday is VI diyFEST, so there will be more opportunity for others to share their assessment.
dave
Sounds great having more ears to compare those two drivers will there be made measurement too at the meeting, have a best party
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planet10 should you be happy send a example for final round would be great, then please PM me i be happy to pay for a second one for same pakage so X have a pair instead of only a mono driver.
You don't need a DSP or a crazy circuit to change an upward tilt of frequency response. All you need is high gauge speaker wire to act as a series resistor. This will turn a voltage amplifier into more of a current amplifier. This also has the benefits of reducing EMF forces from the speaker driver back into the amplifier. It is a much forgotten method. So yes, speaker wire gauge DOES make a difference if resistance exceeds 5% of your drivers impedance. For an 8Ohm speaker, that would be .4Ohms needed of cable resistance to start changing the frequency response. This could be achieved by 20 feet (10 feet to speaker and 10 feet back per channel) of 23AWG wire or larger. Ofcourse the higher gauge/more resistance, the more the frequency response will change.
This does change the Qtc of a speaker though. This can be easily seen by creating a closed speaker in WINISD with .707QTC. Then go to "signal tab" and edit "series resistance" from the default 0.100 Ohms.
I believe hornsrep can calculate the Qtc of a vented box with series resistance. Ill check and confirm this.
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Okay i back off because of interest blended with these drivers are fair expensive, nothing wrong with the cost actual it's fine spec they matched and the treatment are handmade i guess and takes time. All being pairs of speakers actual funded 4 at round 1, 3 at round 2, and 1 at round 3, so have to stop somewhere. Should it happen some will take the 70$ build or more think i could find the rest sum of 100$ then give me a hint via PM.
PS Saying you can't afford it to send a driver to X, well if its so good and actual better than 10F maybe you can't afford not to do it because we will then all order from Canada wouldn't we.
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Thanks tip but think it moves too little dBs in uninteresting frq area with small cable changes and at same open discussion that one change dampening effect of amps solid short (low impedance) to stop electric motion at cone (anti oscillation brake).
Below is free XSim modeling with xrk971 real world data measurement for 10F/8424 in his Dagger box, blue is direct to amp grey is 1,0 ohm and green is 10 ohm series resistance placed at amp output.
Second picture is WinspeakerZ modeling a RS225-8 woofer in sealed box at Q0,707, the two lower traces is adding a 1,0 ohm and 10 ohm series resistance.
Attachments
Let's not blame the so called flaws for why you won't submit drivers for testing.
Wow that's crazy, i didn't know software like that existed.
I was expecting much more change than there was for 10Ohms. I read online that the best rough "rule of thumb" was 1dB change per 1Ohm. I wonder how accurate the sim is. Cool sim though!
Can really recommend the free XSim software and not thank creator bwaslo enough for sharing that. Give yourself the learning time it takes to handle the program and the software can answer so many questions one can think about when dealing with R L or C values and what will happen. Import or export to other programs is possibility too. A simple exercise is in a new session (without any components and drivers at all) place one capacitor across the amp output then set it a given value including ESR value too and on the fly in the impedance window one have its real plot. It seems as accurate as real world, at least is my experience when checking the circuits outcome afterwards by microphone or DATS measurements
.Link to XSim at DIYA http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/259865-xsim-free-crossover-designer.html.
WinspeakerZ is not free, its a 39,95$ program from www.trueaudio.com.
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Then suggest you show some measurement data FF85wKeN verse 10F/8424 instead of below subjective comment from a commercial dealer, its okay comment if you had your diy hat on when posted but how should we diy'ers know. In past you praised CHN70/A7.3/A7p too and over here they didn't win in subjective sound test in fact they actual show very bad objective data compared other drivers and what promised in datasheet. Its a mystery to me how more than 30 years experience in the business can recommend such drivers as better than the rest or propose the A7.3 to be a studio monitor, because how can we ever improve sound in peoples real world environment to sound as in the recording studio with those recommendations for drivers that often put a layer of detail one never has heard before combined its own special signature. Full range drivers ain't pretty perfect compared to multi-way when zooming in to certain response octaves and therefor need really great not just good drivers to be used as a reference reproducer, to judge and point out what full range drivers are best great/good and gets close to a reference reproducer then data as xrk971 and all diy'ers here share are worth a million i think. Sorry planet10 that your preferred in the past driver recommendations wasn't special good either to win the subjective sound clips test or to show good measured data, therefor suggest if that FF85wKeN is so good that you recommend below send a package to X or at least show some objective data.
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