Here's a screen shot of the US source I found:
I don't know if tariffs will be tacked onto these prices. Sometimes they only show up when completing the purchase. And then there's the shipping.
I don't know if tariffs will be tacked onto these prices. Sometimes they only show up when completing the purchase. And then there's the shipping.
If the US Sheet Dimensions are the same as the UK's, the Full Size Sheet will be approx' 50% Cheaper to acquire in the US.
Either way, if a Wood Based Panel is the most desired and is now needing to be purchased, in my world this Wood Type in the Thickness under 1mm, is the way to go.
Bamboo being the other alternative.
In the US a O.4mm Aviation Plywood bonded to a very thin Bamboo Veneer might bring something quite special as Bamboo being very heavily compressed to form these new structures, dissipates energies quite different to common wood types produced as a non heavily compressed sheet.
Bamboo when heavily compressed produces Damping/Dissipation Measurements not too different from Beech or Birch produced as Resin Impregnated Densified Wood, such as the Brands Panzerholz, Permali, Dymond Wood. The Brand Rezywood produces a similar board but uses more expensive Raw Wood Materials.
Either way, if a Wood Based Panel is the most desired and is now needing to be purchased, in my world this Wood Type in the Thickness under 1mm, is the way to go.
Bamboo being the other alternative.
In the US a O.4mm Aviation Plywood bonded to a very thin Bamboo Veneer might bring something quite special as Bamboo being very heavily compressed to form these new structures, dissipates energies quite different to common wood types produced as a non heavily compressed sheet.
Bamboo when heavily compressed produces Damping/Dissipation Measurements not too different from Beech or Birch produced as Resin Impregnated Densified Wood, such as the Brands Panzerholz, Permali, Dymond Wood. The Brand Rezywood produces a similar board but uses more expensive Raw Wood Materials.
This was about the cheapest option I found on eBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26594076...lp:2332490&itmmeta=01JSV3P3WRJVQ6WHX6FAJNA98C
Free shipping.
Steve.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26594076...lp:2332490&itmmeta=01JSV3P3WRJVQ6WHX6FAJNA98C
Free shipping.
Steve.
Rather than spending vast amounts of money on testing different thin flexible materials .
Why not just build my thin card panels, they can be free if you use old cereal boxes.
You do not need expensive materials to produce good sounding dml panels.
If you are starting off testing panel materials I would start with thin card , if you do not like this panel for some reason you can just put it in the bin, with no tears 😉
But I am sure you will all be impressed.
Steve.
Why not just build my thin card panels, they can be free if you use old cereal boxes.
You do not need expensive materials to produce good sounding dml panels.
If you are starting off testing panel materials I would start with thin card , if you do not like this panel for some reason you can just put it in the bin, with no tears 😉
But I am sure you will all be impressed.
Steve.
Moray.
I found this old video from April 2024 of a small ish eps panel I made.
Youtube say it is partially blocked in some countries, but does not say what countries, but seams to be OK in the uk ?
I thought this might be helpful , if you are able to see it ?
Steve.
I found this old video from April 2024 of a small ish eps panel I made.
Youtube say it is partially blocked in some countries, but does not say what countries, but seams to be OK in the uk ?
I thought this might be helpful , if you are able to see it ?
Steve.
Hi
a question please but basically thinking about a material even expensive without compromises in your opinion which would be the best?
thanks
Hello pixel1.
I am not sure what you mean when you say, a panel without compromises .
The only compromise I can think of is that I would always use a low frequency driver for the lower frequencies.
Even if the panel does go down to about 40hz on acoustic music, with electronic music, this will push the panel into serous overload when playing loudly.
Most panels are quite week in the lower frequencies and also suffer from room suckouts.
Which a lower frequency driver can help fill in in the 100hz to 300hz region.
If you could be more specific about these compromises you mentioned, I would be glad to help answer the questions, if I actually know the answer 😀
Steve.
I am not sure what you mean when you say, a panel without compromises .
The only compromise I can think of is that I would always use a low frequency driver for the lower frequencies.
Even if the panel does go down to about 40hz on acoustic music, with electronic music, this will push the panel into serous overload when playing loudly.
Most panels are quite week in the lower frequencies and also suffer from room suckouts.
Which a lower frequency driver can help fill in in the 100hz to 300hz region.
If you could be more specific about these compromises you mentioned, I would be glad to help answer the questions, if I actually know the answer 😀
Steve.
Hello moray.
This was the eps panel I used in the last video.
Steve.
This was the eps panel I used in the last video.
Steve.
Thank you Steve sounds good. looks like it is a 1/2" panel is that correct? in the video where it plays you show the edge vibrating at low frequencies, I assume you were playing it loud at the time? does that sort of vibration cause any problems sound wise? just curious. thanks for posting.
Hello moray.
I was playing the panels full range in the video I believe.
The panel was 14mm which is a little over 1/2 inch .
The exciter will try and play down to 20hz and lower , so I normally roll off at about 100hz or so depending on the panel being used.
This prevents excessive movement and overheating at loud volumes.
Yes I always play the music very loud in my videos, just to show how clean and clear the sound is even at loud volumes.
My cousin was very surprised how loud even my small card panels could go without sounding harsh and distorted.
He was even more surprised when I handed him the panel and told him to hold it by the magnet.
He just sat there with the panel in his hand saying wow why have I never hear of dml panels.
I seem to remember he used to own a pair of tannoy floor standing speakers, not sure he still owns them.
Steve.
I was playing the panels full range in the video I believe.
The panel was 14mm which is a little over 1/2 inch .
The exciter will try and play down to 20hz and lower , so I normally roll off at about 100hz or so depending on the panel being used.
This prevents excessive movement and overheating at loud volumes.
Yes I always play the music very loud in my videos, just to show how clean and clear the sound is even at loud volumes.
My cousin was very surprised how loud even my small card panels could go without sounding harsh and distorted.
He was even more surprised when I handed him the panel and told him to hold it by the magnet.
He just sat there with the panel in his hand saying wow why have I never hear of dml panels.
I seem to remember he used to own a pair of tannoy floor standing speakers, not sure he still owns them.
Steve.
yes let me explain better, I meant to say for compromise under the economic aspect, I realize that the compromises are of a technical nature but I simply meant economic, for example I had one in carbon - nomex total thickness about 5mm, similar to the tectonic, the result is good but I'm not at all sure that it is the best. In a sea magnum of materials and combinations it is really difficult to try so many. So from your experience which was the material that satisfied you the most?
My favourite material for dml panels is eps.
I just came across this post on AudioCircle page 58 post 1158.
This was from 2010, so you can see i have been an outspoken fan of this material for some time now.
I have been on this forum for 6years now, and have built many different panels.
They are all very good but eps is my favourite 😍
Steve.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70541.1140
I just came across this post on AudioCircle page 58 post 1158.
This was from 2010, so you can see i have been an outspoken fan of this material for some time now.
I have been on this forum for 6years now, and have built many different panels.
They are all very good but eps is my favourite 😍
Steve.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70541.1140
Also on page 59 post 1164 over on AudioCircle I talk about my giant killer panels part two.
This goes through how I used to treat my panels before I later started sanding off the eps hard coating.
I also mention the Big Ben recording which was very loud on this 4ftx4ft panel.
I remember this like it was only the other day, how time flies.
I'm sure my neighbours remember it as well 😅
Steve.
This goes through how I used to treat my panels before I later started sanding off the eps hard coating.
I also mention the Big Ben recording which was very loud on this 4ftx4ft panel.
I remember this like it was only the other day, how time flies.
I'm sure my neighbours remember it as well 😅
Steve.
I was just 15 years ago Steve!
Joke aside, this post is an excellent summary of your technique. Maybe you could add the exciter position to have a full description.
An other of your advice is to go not too fast. Glue the exciter, listen, add the damping, listen... and be ready to go forward with a new panel (I take the freedom to add this last step)
As I see things at the moment, the key point which lacks of technical explanations to fit with your experience is :
I hope some simulations will be able to give some hints in order to decide the best type and locations of mount points in order to fulfill this "requirement" to make a robust (or at least not weak) and nice looking panel.
Christian
You could do as I do ,and just hang them from a stand ( cheap up lighters, in my case -best sound for me so far), but if you mount the panel in any other way you must make sure you do not restrict the panel movement in any way,
First time to look at this thread was last night, looking into it again this morning and it reminded me about an idea I had back around the year 2002. I had a 96 Tacoma that I was competing in sound quality competition and retired it from that to put the substantial funds into my rapidly growing business. I had a simple system in then but still sounded great and had superb sound stage, etc......but I wanted to play around with this idea.
Get a well made canopy for the bed with big side windows and replace them with panels, cut out big sections of the roof and the hatch cover as well, work out the right drivers, tweak and tune, whatever power they needed, making it into one big music making DML machine🙂
Rick
Get a well made canopy for the bed with big side windows and replace them with panels, cut out big sections of the roof and the hatch cover as well, work out the right drivers, tweak and tune, whatever power they needed, making it into one big music making DML machine🙂
Rick
I just might have to build some DML speakers as my next project after I build the Frugel-Horn Joan speakers with MA200 drivers, should be great fun!
Rick
Rick
Hello Christian.
Personally, I have no need for a panel cage to house and protect the panel.
But I can see that people with children and dogs 😱 may need to make their panels bomb proof, or just to make them look more impressive similar looking as an electrostatic speaker.
The podiums were a good looking speaker, but not what I would call bomb proof.
I joined AudioCircle in 2009 so my methods of building the eps panels have changed a little but the sound was still amazing.
I started testing smaller panels as the sanding of a 6ft panel was a very messy and tedious job, my garden looked like Santa's Christmas grotto in summer 😂
As I have said before, there are mounting positions that can be favorable to the panel performance, if people can be bothered to find them , they can be put into use as mounting points.
Your simulation could help find these points, as long as listening tests confirm they are a sound improvement.
But watching the frequency response change and listening to the sound at the same time is my favourite way of finding these positions .
Steve.
Personally, I have no need for a panel cage to house and protect the panel.
But I can see that people with children and dogs 😱 may need to make their panels bomb proof, or just to make them look more impressive similar looking as an electrostatic speaker.
The podiums were a good looking speaker, but not what I would call bomb proof.
I joined AudioCircle in 2009 so my methods of building the eps panels have changed a little but the sound was still amazing.
I started testing smaller panels as the sanding of a 6ft panel was a very messy and tedious job, my garden looked like Santa's Christmas grotto in summer 😂
As I have said before, there are mounting positions that can be favorable to the panel performance, if people can be bothered to find them , they can be put into use as mounting points.
Your simulation could help find these points, as long as listening tests confirm they are a sound improvement.
But watching the frequency response change and listening to the sound at the same time is my favourite way of finding these positions .
Steve.
Hello Steve,
No children or dogs here for now. Maybe in the future? or a cat? My needs go more to a speaker that I can easily move from a safe position to a one better for listening but that can't be permanent and also because of the many windows of our rooms some resistance to a possible air flow from the windows.
They are in the top of what I want to simulate/test
For sure. Simulation is a way to sort to make the association problem/question to a possible cause. DML are highly complex by the number of parameters and by their physics, we are not at the time a simulator can be the only tool.
Christian
Hello Christian.
I am sure that a strong breeze through a window could cause major problems with an electrostatic speaker.
At least with panels there shouldn't be any sparks.
Panels do tend to act like sails in the wind, as I have found on many occasions.
Even if a sturdy cage was made to protect the panel from children and dogs, wind pressure could still be a problem.
Tectonic panels are pretty sturdy and the panels are well damped to prevent unnecessary movement, which also helps with the feedback problems.
Your picture frame panel is probably a good choice for wind protection or my rigid ply panel as long as the are solidly mounted to the floor.
Mounting a panel can be as simple or as complicated as you want, the choice is yours.
Steve.
I am sure that a strong breeze through a window could cause major problems with an electrostatic speaker.
At least with panels there shouldn't be any sparks.
Panels do tend to act like sails in the wind, as I have found on many occasions.
Even if a sturdy cage was made to protect the panel from children and dogs, wind pressure could still be a problem.
Tectonic panels are pretty sturdy and the panels are well damped to prevent unnecessary movement, which also helps with the feedback problems.
Your picture frame panel is probably a good choice for wind protection or my rigid ply panel as long as the are solidly mounted to the floor.
Mounting a panel can be as simple or as complicated as you want, the choice is yours.
Steve.