Also ... I put no acoustic treatment behind the panels.
I might, but I need to mount them properly and do some measurement first.
I might, but I need to mount them properly and do some measurement first.
Interesting
Does somebody have information/explanation on :
- marker 2, the exciters. There are 3 of them. 2 on the center in a balanced placement, ok. What is the third one(black) ? No XOver visible. 3 exciters working in parallel?
- marker 5, tonerelief technology. Seems like some damping?
- marker 3, mechanichal tuning device. Some mass to adjust the FR?
- panel ratio 4/3
- exciter 1 and 2 : H 5/12=0.42, V 2/5 = 0,4 (2/5, 2/5?)
- exciter 3 (upper one) : H 1/2, V 3/16=0,18 from the top
Very nice and excellent.
Like if the wave back is not able to escape or go through the membrane. If I remember your design, the panel is quite heavy no?
The panels are just on the TV furniture leaning with a small angle on the wall?
I hope you will enjoy the sound as before.
Christian
Time will tell their excellence, but great fun finding out about them.
In this current temporary setup, I think some portion (maybe 100%) of the back wave escapes from behind the panels and reflects off of the two foot thick exterior brick wall. As omni directional drivers with front and back waves in phase (back wave doesn't cancel the front), it seems to work.
Placing conventional box speakers directly against a wall can produce better performance than placing them too short a distance from the wall. If you can't place conventional speakers far enough from the back wall you get wave cancellation.
I've also seen installations (recording studios or high end home theaters) that mount conventional drivers In the wall, essentially creating an infinite baffle - not out of phase cancellation.
Heavy because of their size (approximately 71.5" x 28.25" x 3/8"). I think I remember them weighing 14 lbs each. Aluminum honeycomb core + aluminum skins + an embedded thin aluminum finished edge.
Yes. Each panel rests - on top of the cabinet - on 2 pieces of a dense foam rubber (used in molding Kydex).
__________
Hmmm....
Kydex could prove and interesting panel material. I've used it to make knife sheaths. Pretty inexpensive. Easy to score and cut. Possible alternative to carbon fiber panels.
__________The top of the aluminum panels lean - isolated from the wall - against a singe additional piece of the same foam rubber.
The bottom of the panels sits about 3/8" off of the marble top of the cabinet 4" from the brick wall.
The top foam rubber at the top of the panels holds them about 3/8" from the brick.
I've thought about mounting the panels with some kind of 4" standoffs (3 per panel) parallel to the wall and (as I mentioned earlier in the thread) centered vertically on the TV.
That said, while falling asleep, lost in audio reverie, last night I had a thought, which might lead me to reconsider this.
Does the angle created by leaning the panels against the wall fortuitously reduce standing waves?
Thoughts appreciated?
So far so good. Still a bit to do.
I currently have the center channel exciter (mounted on the LG TV itself) disconnected, until I can hook up an A/V pre-processor.
My miniDSP SHD (repurposed for this system and arguably overkill for what I need) integrates the subwoofers with the DMLs.
The A/V pre-processor will enable me to support the center channel and perhaps repurpose my baltic birch DMLs as rear channel speakers in this setup for movie night surround sound.
I expect I'll need to hide them behind the plants to get away with this ;-)
- Henny Youngman
Comments on my zero baffle subwoofers got me wondering...
Could paired DMLs creating something like the equivalent of Nelson Pass's idea around slot loading develop lower responsive bass out of DMLs?
My zero baffle paired woofers appear to produce deeper bass and more open sounding bass than either of the drivers one their own.
A DML subwoofer?
Maybe heavier duty exciters?
Just an idea, but I've got parts to try it.
Could paired DMLs creating something like the equivalent of Nelson Pass's idea around slot loading develop lower responsive bass out of DMLs?
My zero baffle paired woofers appear to produce deeper bass and more open sounding bass than either of the drivers one their own.
A DML subwoofer?
Maybe heavier duty exciters?
Just an idea, but I've got parts to try it.
Attachments
If you've referenced my aluminum panels, I previously had them vertical with the width of the panels facing the listening area. I haven't had the occasion to turn the panels 90 degrees to the wall behind them. That said, I previously had the panels in a very wide room and they sound good to either the left of the left speak almost in line with the plane of the two panels or right of the right speakers in line with the two panels. Subjectively, they supply|present a sound stage and listening area far wider than their physical placement as well front back almost anywhere in the room.
I serve on the board (mostly this means feeding them when they come to NY) of New Vintage Baroque orchestra. They have rehearsed and some of the group have performed house concerts in my loft as fund raisers.
My experience of the DMLs seems very like walking around the loft when I listened to real musicians playing in the place.
Perhaps different place to place, but coherent and engaging everywhere.
I also haven't placed them immediately to the left and right of the main listening position in the Beveridge manner either edge to listener of face to listener. It just doesn't work well in my listening areas.
Listened to some of their music available in the YT. Well, not easy music to listen to. 🙂 Can't imagine what they are going to do with Vivaldi's Four Seasons!
“My experience of the DMLs seems very like walking around the loft when I listened to real musicians playing in the place.”
I agree, on my DML’s in France the soundscape is so precise and clear you can walk up to Tom Waits piano and lean on it.
Burnt
P.S. I have just downloaded Passionate Pilgrim. You are very fortunate to be able to directly compare the artists and their recordings in literally the same space
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Hi chdsi
I has to be remembered that there is a fundamental difference between vibrating tubes/sheets and conical/flat membranes in a conventional speaker which are meant as push/pull pistonic air movers.
I'd like to know more about the Glassonic speakers - mired in mystery it seems - the glass may even be non-functional??
The edge vibration mode is intriguing - I'm keen to try it asap
Cheers
Eucy
Eucy,
Yeah, they are oddly opaque for a company that makes transparent speakers!
But from their FAQs, it seems the glass is functional. But they "resonate" just like a traditional cone speaker? Really? They are clearly not marketing to the audiophile market. Rather, the luxury market.
But my best guess is that it is indeed a bending wave (i.e. DML) panel speaker.
It's curious to me that they (and Ammos too) both chose glass for their panels, except for the aesthetics. Certainly it's a poor choice as far as radiation efficiency is concerned. It wouldn't fall within Christian's dashed box for sure!
Eric
Glass does give a very good sound, even good bass. I tried this with a tall drinking glass with its edge placed over the exciter. You can try this too. Just place an exciter flat on a table, so that it won't move facing up, hold the drinking glass and place it with the edge tightly over the exciter. The bottom of glass wouldn't give any sound, only the edge.
aagas.
I did make a couple of recordings of the change in sound that is caused by holding an art panel up close to a wall or window.
The recordings also showed the change in sound that tilting one edge of the panel out caused.
Although I could not get the panel actually hard up against the wall because of the exciter plus spine.
The Ammos has a very small gap in between the two sheets, plus sealed at the edges.
How having your large panels within a few mm of the wall would be interesting, would this stop the bad cancellations below 500hz ?
How would this affect the sound? you would obviously have to turn them around so that the exciter was facing forwards.
Nothing is guaranteed but it could be interesting?
Steve.
I did make a couple of recordings of the change in sound that is caused by holding an art panel up close to a wall or window.
The recordings also showed the change in sound that tilting one edge of the panel out caused.
Although I could not get the panel actually hard up against the wall because of the exciter plus spine.
The Ammos has a very small gap in between the two sheets, plus sealed at the edges.
How having your large panels within a few mm of the wall would be interesting, would this stop the bad cancellations below 500hz ?
How would this affect the sound? you would obviously have to turn them around so that the exciter was facing forwards.
Nothing is guaranteed but it could be interesting?
Steve.
Christian,
That does sound vaguely familiar. If you find the patent or article I would be interested to know. It's a pretty easy thing to try so I was thinking I might just do it for fun, but it might help to understand better their objective.
Thanks,
Eric
Thoughtful and helpful as always. Much appreciated.
Many things to try.
Still trying to figure the simple mechanics of raising the panels above the TV cabinet. How to hang them from but off the wall. I'd like something that self levels or has some adjustability. Time to wander the hardware store and see if something makes sense.
More to come.
- Andreas
Have Ikea & Sonos gotten into DMLs?
SYMFONISK Picture frame with Wi-Fi speaker, white/smart
How else could they produce something like this?
The assembly instructions don't show much.
Interesting
SYMFONISK Picture frame with Wi-Fi speaker, white/smart
How else could they produce something like this?
The assembly instructions don't show much.
Interesting
