Art panel near window.
Jaxboy.
When I opened the blinds the panel kept turning around
I did open the blinds fully ,but in the picture I didn't want you to see the dirty windows.
Which was pretty bad,I did not want anyone saying isn't it about time you cleaned those windows
Hope it gives you an idea of what to expect from the sound of an art panel near a window?
Steve
Jaxboy.
When I opened the blinds the panel kept turning around
I did open the blinds fully ,but in the picture I didn't want you to see the dirty windows.
Which was pretty bad,I did not want anyone saying isn't it about time you cleaned those windows
Hope it gives you an idea of what to expect from the sound of an art panel near a window?
Steve
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Spedge,
Thanks for the fast and informative reply.
I am going to use framed canvas for my DMLs. What size do you recommend? I was actually thinking of making my own frames and buying printed cloth to cover them. What type and weight of cloth do you recommend? I intend to use water/pva on them, unless you think another treatment would be better. I have 2 of the DAEX25FHE-4 exciters on back-order at PE. I only listen at moderate levels to classical, light rock and ballad-type music. I counted the other day, and my music includes artists from 31 countries. Try listening to some of Gretchen Peters' music. She is one of my favorite singers. I have run every piece of my 9000+ pieces of music through Audacity to tailor it to my tastes, normalizing it, adding bass, cutting out clapping, etc, sometimes speeding up the tempo, and even shifting the key down a note sometimes when I think it will improve a lady's voice to my preference for bass. Accuracy is not nearly as important as what I think sounds good. I have loud tinnitus and a hearing range of only 20-8KHz. As an idea of how bad the tinnitus is, the other day I decided to see how loud my tinnitus is, so I went to a test tone site and played 6.2kHz, my tinnitus sound, at the same level my tinnitus is. My listening room is an upstairs bedroom. As soon as I turned the tone on, with the door closed, my daughter downstairs yelled up to me, saying, "Whatever that is you're playing, PLEASE turn it down!" That tone, the exact sound an F-15 engine makes at idle (20 years in the USAF as an FB-111 and F-15 avionics mechanic), is what I endure all my waking hours. I love bass, and have a decent sub-woofer from a Sony 5.1 set-up my ex gave me. I don't know its specs, but its sound is sufficient for my poor hearing, plus the speakers I made produce strong bass. Old age sucks! Any advice you, and others on this site, can give me on making my panels will be much appreciated. I've made 3 different foamcore speaker designs, ala XRK, which I really like, but DML is a new animal to me. The DMLs will most likely augment the cone speakers.
Thanks for the fast and informative reply.
I am going to use framed canvas for my DMLs. What size do you recommend? I was actually thinking of making my own frames and buying printed cloth to cover them. What type and weight of cloth do you recommend? I intend to use water/pva on them, unless you think another treatment would be better. I have 2 of the DAEX25FHE-4 exciters on back-order at PE. I only listen at moderate levels to classical, light rock and ballad-type music. I counted the other day, and my music includes artists from 31 countries. Try listening to some of Gretchen Peters' music. She is one of my favorite singers. I have run every piece of my 9000+ pieces of music through Audacity to tailor it to my tastes, normalizing it, adding bass, cutting out clapping, etc, sometimes speeding up the tempo, and even shifting the key down a note sometimes when I think it will improve a lady's voice to my preference for bass. Accuracy is not nearly as important as what I think sounds good. I have loud tinnitus and a hearing range of only 20-8KHz. As an idea of how bad the tinnitus is, the other day I decided to see how loud my tinnitus is, so I went to a test tone site and played 6.2kHz, my tinnitus sound, at the same level my tinnitus is. My listening room is an upstairs bedroom. As soon as I turned the tone on, with the door closed, my daughter downstairs yelled up to me, saying, "Whatever that is you're playing, PLEASE turn it down!" That tone, the exact sound an F-15 engine makes at idle (20 years in the USAF as an FB-111 and F-15 avionics mechanic), is what I endure all my waking hours. I love bass, and have a decent sub-woofer from a Sony 5.1 set-up my ex gave me. I don't know its specs, but its sound is sufficient for my poor hearing, plus the speakers I made produce strong bass. Old age sucks! Any advice you, and others on this site, can give me on making my panels will be much appreciated. I've made 3 different foamcore speaker designs, ala XRK, which I really like, but DML is a new animal to me. The DMLs will most likely augment the cone speakers.
I got this set of 2 canvas frames (40x50cm) from Aldi (Australia) for 7 AUD! I also got round plywood 10cm and the hexagonal panels - from Kmart (24x28cm).
I am very tempted to try a framed canvas DML. It would be interesting to hear the difference between the different panels. Any suggestions?
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Spedge,
Again, my post disappeared as I was writing it!
If that was only one side of stereo, I can definitely live with that! Who was that singing? She sounded a bit like Jill Barber. IIRC, you have a 11.5x16.5" canvas with a 4x6" wooden oval with a concentric circle (1or 2?) of caulking, with caulking at all the boundaries, standing 3 feet into the room, with no drapes, correct? What do you think of these dimensions that I got from other contributors here: 15.75x21.25"; 14x23"; 19.3x21.8; 21.25x24; 19.25x23.5? Of these and your dimensions, which do you think would work best in a 10.5x12.5 cluttered room? I can make any size frame you think would work best. I will probably use these to augment cone speakers that have good bass. My test recording will be Jennifer Warnes' If It Be Your Will. It gives me chills every time it comes up on random play, and I always play it a second time. I appreciate your taking time for me.
Again, my post disappeared as I was writing it!
If that was only one side of stereo, I can definitely live with that! Who was that singing? She sounded a bit like Jill Barber. IIRC, you have a 11.5x16.5" canvas with a 4x6" wooden oval with a concentric circle (1or 2?) of caulking, with caulking at all the boundaries, standing 3 feet into the room, with no drapes, correct? What do you think of these dimensions that I got from other contributors here: 15.75x21.25"; 14x23"; 19.3x21.8; 21.25x24; 19.25x23.5? Of these and your dimensions, which do you think would work best in a 10.5x12.5 cluttered room? I can make any size frame you think would work best. I will probably use these to augment cone speakers that have good bass. My test recording will be Jennifer Warnes' If It Be Your Will. It gives me chills every time it comes up on random play, and I always play it a second time. I appreciate your taking time for me.
Jaxboy and sonner.
I have only built one canvas art panel ,so can only speak for that panel.
I'm sure there can be many variants on this design and as I say I can only speak for and demonstrate my design.
The panel was purchased from my local art store and was ridiculously cheap for 4 panels in a pack.
The balsa ply 6x4inch panel was also very cheap on eBay for a pack of 10.
All I did was round the corners as Can be seen in the last photos.
The canvas art panel was also pretty much untouched ,the frame is already raised at the outer edges so the canvas if free all the way up to the edges.
Nothing to flap or buzz against.
The canvas panels were already pretty tight so all the hard work was all done for me.
The only other thing I did was coat a large area of The panel in cascamite ,which is very rigid ,but I'm afraid cracked badly.
Which ruined the panel
Your exciters magnets will need supporting at the back .
The problem with using a larger panel is trying to control the canvas.
I would imagine the canvas could start to wobble uncontrollably if too large?
How large that is I don't know?
Maybe a larger ply panel could help compensate and reduce the canvas area?
Or maybe something as rigid as cascamite but will hopefully not crack?
A lot more experimenting is needed to find the ideal size and materials.
So far it's not perfect and I'm sure there could be problems with the canvas stretching over time .
But for a quick cheap build it is a good all rounder with a very strong output down to at least 40hz (with mine) and up to 20k.
If more power is needed just use 2 panels per side(or more).
Steve.
I have only built one canvas art panel ,so can only speak for that panel.
I'm sure there can be many variants on this design and as I say I can only speak for and demonstrate my design.
The panel was purchased from my local art store and was ridiculously cheap for 4 panels in a pack.
The balsa ply 6x4inch panel was also very cheap on eBay for a pack of 10.
All I did was round the corners as Can be seen in the last photos.
The canvas art panel was also pretty much untouched ,the frame is already raised at the outer edges so the canvas if free all the way up to the edges.
Nothing to flap or buzz against.
The canvas panels were already pretty tight so all the hard work was all done for me.
The only other thing I did was coat a large area of The panel in cascamite ,which is very rigid ,but I'm afraid cracked badly.
Which ruined the panel
Your exciters magnets will need supporting at the back .
The problem with using a larger panel is trying to control the canvas.
I would imagine the canvas could start to wobble uncontrollably if too large?
How large that is I don't know?
Maybe a larger ply panel could help compensate and reduce the canvas area?
Or maybe something as rigid as cascamite but will hopefully not crack?
A lot more experimenting is needed to find the ideal size and materials.
So far it's not perfect and I'm sure there could be problems with the canvas stretching over time .
But for a quick cheap build it is a good all rounder with a very strong output down to at least 40hz (with mine) and up to 20k.
If more power is needed just use 2 panels per side(or more).
Steve.
Jaxboy.
There were a lot or questions you asked.
The microphone was 5ft from the Window with and then without blinds.
No caulking used.
My room is about 10ft wide and abut 25ft long and full of junk.
All of my dml panels fill this room with sound and that is with a 10watt amp!!
Admittedly I do use my TLS to help fill in frequencies below about 300hz this helps to fill in room suck outs.
Steve.
There were a lot or questions you asked.
The microphone was 5ft from the Window with and then without blinds.
No caulking used.
My room is about 10ft wide and abut 25ft long and full of junk.
All of my dml panels fill this room with sound and that is with a 10watt amp!!
Admittedly I do use my TLS to help fill in frequencies below about 300hz this helps to fill in room suck outs.
Steve.
Jaxboy.
I'm sorry ,I have no idea who is singing on that track.
It is from a free usher demonstration CD given away at audio shows and is typed in a foreign language.
And I agree it is 'so nice'
Steve.
Stacy Kent and Jim Tomlinson - "So Nice"
Stacey Kent & Jim Tomlinson - So Nice - YouTube
Spedge,
Thanks for the reply. When I said caulking, I was referring to the silicone you put at the frame and around the wooden panel, and the ring you put around the wooden panel. Do you think the DAEX25FHE-4 is too powerful? i will never get my panels louder than moderate. They are STILL on back-order. I could cancel that order and get some 19mm ones if you think that would be more appropriate.
Thanks for the reply. When I said caulking, I was referring to the silicone you put at the frame and around the wooden panel, and the ring you put around the wooden panel. Do you think the DAEX25FHE-4 is too powerful? i will never get my panels louder than moderate. They are STILL on back-order. I could cancel that order and get some 19mm ones if you think that would be more appropriate.
Jaxboy.
The DAEX25FHE-4 will be perfectly fine , the extra power could help produce a little more Lf ?
The 25mm coil is a good choice and 25watts is only 15watts more than mine but with that extra power you might get a little more shove below 40hz?
I haven't needed silacon for my panels and I'm not sure why I would need it.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
But if you are designing your own frame maybe you might need it for some reason?
Steve
The DAEX25FHE-4 will be perfectly fine , the extra power could help produce a little more Lf ?
The 25mm coil is a good choice and 25watts is only 15watts more than mine but with that extra power you might get a little more shove below 40hz?
I haven't needed silacon for my panels and I'm not sure why I would need it.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
But if you are designing your own frame maybe you might need it for some reason?
Steve
jennifer warnes
Jaxboy.
just for you.
this is again only the right channel and not in mono so it might be missing a guitar on the left and a lot of ambiance.
got this from youtube.
listen on headphones for best results as the microphones in the phone just about reach 50hz
steve.
Jaxboy.
just for you.
this is again only the right channel and not in mono so it might be missing a guitar on the left and a lot of ambiance.
got this from youtube.
listen on headphones for best results as the microphones in the phone just about reach 50hz
steve.
Jaxboy.
I should have said that the microphone was 4ft from the panel and the panel was 1ft from the window with the thin blinds in place as in my last pictures.
The microphones were not picking up most of the low frequencies ,I did try and eq this but the microphone still wasn't picking it up ,so left it out.
After recording it then converting it then uploading it then downloading it, it never sounds as good as my original recording,but hopefully it sounded ok.
Steve.
I should have said that the microphone was 4ft from the panel and the panel was 1ft from the window with the thin blinds in place as in my last pictures.
The microphones were not picking up most of the low frequencies ,I did try and eq this but the microphone still wasn't picking it up ,so left it out.
After recording it then converting it then uploading it then downloading it, it never sounds as good as my original recording,but hopefully it sounded ok.
Steve.
Spedge,
Thanks for that! It gave me chills big time. The mids were like listening to bells chiming out the individual notes, so clear and understatedly pronounced. More like I was there, instead of listening to a recording. I could hear the bass, but my subwoofer does a good job in that department. On my Bose QC35II headphones, the mids audio was so much better sounding than my recording of that same youtube site. If you like her, you would probably like Gretchen Peters, a similar sounding singer. She has written songs for several artists, and I have the complete collection of her songs. She is one of my favorite singers. As to the canvas construction, I think I am mixing you up with OSKOG, Burntcoil or 57 Buick. I have marathon-read all the diyAudio, PE tech talk and Audiocircle forums on DMLs start to finish in the last several days, so I may have missed who it was who started using the canvas. I thought it was you, as you are so knowledgeable about DMLs. Whoever started experimenting with the canvas said he used silicone to seal the joint at the frame, and put a bead around the wooden panel, plus putting 1 or 2 concentric circles around the wooden panel. If you did none of those, maybe they are not needed. If doing so improved the sound over yours, they must sound unbelievable, because yours sound great. I have a lot of neck pain and could not sleep, so when I heard your recording, it made me forget all about my pain, so thanks so much for that. It made me even more ready for my exciters to finally get here.
Thanks for that! It gave me chills big time. The mids were like listening to bells chiming out the individual notes, so clear and understatedly pronounced. More like I was there, instead of listening to a recording. I could hear the bass, but my subwoofer does a good job in that department. On my Bose QC35II headphones, the mids audio was so much better sounding than my recording of that same youtube site. If you like her, you would probably like Gretchen Peters, a similar sounding singer. She has written songs for several artists, and I have the complete collection of her songs. She is one of my favorite singers. As to the canvas construction, I think I am mixing you up with OSKOG, Burntcoil or 57 Buick. I have marathon-read all the diyAudio, PE tech talk and Audiocircle forums on DMLs start to finish in the last several days, so I may have missed who it was who started using the canvas. I thought it was you, as you are so knowledgeable about DMLs. Whoever started experimenting with the canvas said he used silicone to seal the joint at the frame, and put a bead around the wooden panel, plus putting 1 or 2 concentric circles around the wooden panel. If you did none of those, maybe they are not needed. If doing so improved the sound over yours, they must sound unbelievable, because yours sound great. I have a lot of neck pain and could not sleep, so when I heard your recording, it made me forget all about my pain, so thanks so much for that. It made me even more ready for my exciters to finally get here.
DAEX25FHE-4 exciters are on sale at PE for $8.49. They're on back order, though, due to get there June 4, but they have been on back order since at least early April. The BST-2 tactile shaker is on sale for $19.89. The BST-1 is on sale for $31.89. Both have a frequency response of 10-80 Hz, but the -1 is 50watts, as opposed to the -2 of 35 watts.
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