That's clever - But a huge loss in effective path length. If I had Akabak running it would interesting to simulate.
Greg B's design for BetsyK is a little more conservative with the Fulmerized opening rate. It may work well with W8-1772 and others
X, when you get your Akabak back, could you simulate a Karlsonator for twin PA130-8's.
I bought 4 more and want to parallel them for 4 ohms.
I'm running my PA130, 0.53 Karlsonators with piezos on top that have 50 ohm resistors and 0.2uF caps.
They sound really good. In a past post you commented that doubles would be around 0.75 scale. I'd love to build a pair.
thanks
Paul
I bought 4 more and want to parallel them for 4 ohms.
I'm running my PA130, 0.53 Karlsonators with piezos on top that have 50 ohm resistors and 0.2uF caps.
They sound really good. In a past post you commented that doubles would be around 0.75 scale. I'd love to build a pair.
thanks
Paul
hey Colt - did you use rectangular or round piezo? - did you tilt it upwards like the baffle angle? - I probably have some 56R , 0.22uF and KSN1016 laying around. I once ran the original Eminence B102 in a "K10" size with stepup transformer, LR Zobel network, a 5"x15" horn and a trap to flatten the KSN1142 - distortion was very low.
a couple of years ago I tested 10 Goldwood KSN1005 copies - a few real bad - some could be put into pairs
Brian Steele lucked out and discovered a "Frankenpiezo" combination of GRS and Goldwood 1016 type which played smooth - IIRC, I did not get good results mixing 1005 but may have mixed them only one way
a couple of years ago I tested 10 Goldwood KSN1005 copies - a few real bad - some could be put into pairs
Brian Steele lucked out and discovered a "Frankenpiezo" combination of GRS and Goldwood 1016 type which played smooth - IIRC, I did not get good results mixing 1005 but may have mixed them only one way
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May I interest you in an xki with dual PA130's? Srednivashtar built a set and they look and sound great. More compact than Karlsonator.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You will have to look around for the plans in the thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268524-xki-xs-ab-initio-karlson-6th-order-bandpass-48.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You may have to read to see what the vent length ended up at.
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those dual PA130 XKi are impressive looking and should be able to move some air.
X - maybe sometime you can do a writeup on selecting K type vs driver parameters
I can load the Karlsonator 12 with a number of drivers but most of mine are custom Eminence not available for direct sale. I know it worked well with Nirvana's Super10 (whose specs are "off" ) and 12LTA and I may load it again to compare with Beta 12LTA.
One of my 0.62 x K15 is loaded with FE206EN - i want to measure it with Super10, Delta10a and TF1020
-
Beta10cx
sims - the little 0.62 scale K15 has a monster power "hit octave" - its too bad Eminence doesn't sell a stronger motor 10CX - even a 54oz magnet would help
in-room measurements - note - Beta 12LTA's behavior - (12LTA was neasured in a another
room - I think its more sutiable (and by extension, Beta 12cx) for Karlsonator 12 than Beta 10cx
X - maybe sometime you can do a writeup on selecting K type vs driver parameters
I can load the Karlsonator 12 with a number of drivers but most of mine are custom Eminence not available for direct sale. I know it worked well with Nirvana's Super10 (whose specs are "off" ) and 12LTA and I may load it again to compare with Beta 12LTA.
One of my 0.62 x K15 is loaded with FE206EN - i want to measure it with Super10, Delta10a and TF1020
-
Beta10cx
sims - the little 0.62 scale K15 has a monster power "hit octave" - its too bad Eminence doesn't sell a stronger motor 10CX - even a 54oz magnet would help
in-room measurements - note - Beta 12LTA's behavior - (12LTA was neasured in a another
room - I think its more sutiable (and by extension, Beta 12cx) for Karlsonator 12 than Beta 10cx
X, I have built the Karlsonator 0.53, and the XKi with the PA130-8. The XKi sounds very good and bassey, but I think the Karlsonator is much better.
Having two each side at 4ohms driven by a 7598 2x100W amp should really make the blues rock (pun).
Freddi the piezos are vertical as I thought the K slot is vertical. They are they are sitting back above the centre of the woofer.
I don't know why the 1st pic is upside down.
thanks
paul
Having two each side at 4ohms driven by a 7598 2x100W amp should really make the blues rock (pun).
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Freddi the piezos are vertical as I thought the K slot is vertical. They are they are sitting back above the centre of the woofer.
I don't know why the 1st pic is upside down.
thanks
paul
Attachments
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VERY COOL - the Karlsonator is a wonderful design overall and seems to scale well (with X's help of modeling 😀🙂
I've got a question - lets say I want a new "X15" size K-coupler- is there a particular front cavity shape and vent placement which work better than others? X15 was a 2-way system introduced for 1965 and was 1 cubic foot bulk larger than Karlson's K12. It had a 3 panel approximation of a 1/4 ellipse for its reflector.
RCA-Fan built an X15 size with a simple slanted baffle and perpendicular board above the baffle with something like a 2 inch gap between the top of the upright board and top of the cabinet for the vent. IIRC it tuned in the mid 50's and didn't look too bad with a JBL 2226.
Carl Neuser, did not have access to Karlson's X15 so came up with the cabinet below with the tube placed higher than in Karlson's X15, and a longer tube/steeper downwards angle to fit into the main aperture (12 degrees down for Karlson, 30 degrees down for Carl's K-tube. I would say the X15 has bout the same LF cutoff as a K12 but for a given output, less cone excursion with a 15 than the K12 with a 12"
Acoustic Control, KK-Audio, Transylvania Power Company, Westwood and another company came out with an X15 variant which measures very nicely, but has no room for an internal K-tube.
An "X12" based on K12 would be very good other than lack of LF extension and a good horn substitute.
Acoustic Control 115BK (19" internal width)
approximate copy of Karlson's X15 (driver cutout is 7/8" too high)
Carl's X first X15 size coupler - says subsequent builds used a bent wood curved reflector
Here's one I missed - A "Cappelli" made X15 - thicker wood - very pretty - almost bet its vented
like 115BK and Transylvania's cabinet - it may be a made by a member of the Transylvania team ?
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/karlson-bass-cab-with-altec-421a-1-of-2-made.1111059/
That was VERY NICE - 93lb was pretty chunky for a little cabinet
I've got a question - lets say I want a new "X15" size K-coupler- is there a particular front cavity shape and vent placement which work better than others? X15 was a 2-way system introduced for 1965 and was 1 cubic foot bulk larger than Karlson's K12. It had a 3 panel approximation of a 1/4 ellipse for its reflector.
RCA-Fan built an X15 size with a simple slanted baffle and perpendicular board above the baffle with something like a 2 inch gap between the top of the upright board and top of the cabinet for the vent. IIRC it tuned in the mid 50's and didn't look too bad with a JBL 2226.
Carl Neuser, did not have access to Karlson's X15 so came up with the cabinet below with the tube placed higher than in Karlson's X15, and a longer tube/steeper downwards angle to fit into the main aperture (12 degrees down for Karlson, 30 degrees down for Carl's K-tube. I would say the X15 has bout the same LF cutoff as a K12 but for a given output, less cone excursion with a 15 than the K12 with a 12"
Acoustic Control, KK-Audio, Transylvania Power Company, Westwood and another company came out with an X15 variant which measures very nicely, but has no room for an internal K-tube.
An "X12" based on K12 would be very good other than lack of LF extension and a good horn substitute.
Acoustic Control 115BK (19" internal width)
approximate copy of Karlson's X15 (driver cutout is 7/8" too high)
Carl's X first X15 size coupler - says subsequent builds used a bent wood curved reflector
Here's one I missed - A "Cappelli" made X15 - thicker wood - very pretty - almost bet its vented
like 115BK and Transylvania's cabinet - it may be a made by a member of the Transylvania team ?
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/karlson-bass-cab-with-altec-421a-1-of-2-made.1111059/
That was VERY NICE - 93lb was pretty chunky for a little cabinet
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I've been trying to find out how to record these speakers to let you hear how good they are.
I intend to make full size Karlsonators with Betta 10CX and to make 15" Karlsons.
My expensive speaker builds have to wait for spare money.
I also need a table saw. My woodworking ability needs vast improvement.
But X's designs are the best sounding and best value for money.
I'm listening to the 0.53, PA130's now, and am wiped out by how good they sound.
With the piezos you can hear the cymbals; they sparkle; bass on the right track is physical. This is with 7598 amp, 350W meanwell PSU and Asus DG soundcard with Unity drivers.
thanks for your interest
paul
I intend to make full size Karlsonators with Betta 10CX and to make 15" Karlsons.
My expensive speaker builds have to wait for spare money.
I also need a table saw. My woodworking ability needs vast improvement.
But X's designs are the best sounding and best value for money.
I'm listening to the 0.53, PA130's now, and am wiped out by how good they sound.
With the piezos you can hear the cymbals; they sparkle; bass on the right track is physical. This is with 7598 amp, 350W meanwell PSU and Asus DG soundcard with Unity drivers.
thanks for your interest
paul
I like piezos a lot - they often sound faster than moving coil tweeter and can have very low distortion. Their voltage sensitivity with a step-up transformer can be ~103dB with 2.83v/1M. The thing with a piezo is to suppress their hump which occurs with Motorola - CTS originals around 4KHz. btw- Brian Steele came up with lucky mix of GRS and Goldwood 1016 type.
Beta10cx plays pretty sell in a stock K12.- - maybe the "Osprey" crossover would sound better than Eminence's 2mH/10uF + 3.3uF/0,35mH scheme (?) - perhaps you can come up with a better sounding xover for Beta10cx
when X gets a pc for Akabak, maybe he'll come up with a somewhat smaller and somewhat higher tuned Karlsonator for Beta10CX.
I've got Eminence 12cx pairs with 54oz/80oz and 109oz magnet slugs. One set of 54oz 12cx have horns, the other are custom hornless. My 80oz 12cx are the most sensitive with a 99dB rating. The 109oz model have 4" voice coils, 4.6mm overhang and about 50g mms - those actually sounded quite good on Fritz Wunderlich's beautifully recorded lieder sessions.
A K-tube tweeter can be very good.
Beta10cx plays pretty sell in a stock K12.- - maybe the "Osprey" crossover would sound better than Eminence's 2mH/10uF + 3.3uF/0,35mH scheme (?) - perhaps you can come up with a better sounding xover for Beta10cx
when X gets a pc for Akabak, maybe he'll come up with a somewhat smaller and somewhat higher tuned Karlsonator for Beta10CX.
I've got Eminence 12cx pairs with 54oz/80oz and 109oz magnet slugs. One set of 54oz 12cx have horns, the other are custom hornless. My 80oz 12cx are the most sensitive with a 99dB rating. The 109oz model have 4" voice coils, 4.6mm overhang and about 50g mms - those actually sounded quite good on Fritz Wunderlich's beautifully recorded lieder sessions.
A K-tube tweeter can be very good.
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Thanks for praise of the PA130 Karlsonator. It's a great sounding speaker. I agree adding a tweeer helps immensely. My Daytonator project added a coaxial tweeter and passive crossover to an XKi. That box sounds fantastic - gave it to a friend and he loves it. Doesn't listen to his regular stereo anymore and it's poweee with tiny TDA8932.
here's a diy K12 which was selling on a Russian forum, loaded with 4 ohm Magnavox full range. I've heard beautiful midrange voaclas with K12, weak motor 12s - too bad Eminence doesn't marry their Cannabis Rex cone to 12LTA frame and use 54 ounce (or more) magnet
I think its the same as in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fLnl5dW4K0
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think its the same as in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fLnl5dW4K0
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Decals?
I'd love to have decals for my vintage K's but lack the skills to generate the art and don't know who makes decals at a good price. Online I see a service asking $7.91 per waterslide decal.
maybe an -"ator" could be added for those cases 😀
the lettering is gold - is there a transparent sheet where it could be done with a common printer then just glue to the speaker's trim ?
There's also an alternate decal which read
-ULTRA-FIDELITY
- - - - by
- - - Karlson
I'd love to have decals for my vintage K's but lack the skills to generate the art and don't know who makes decals at a good price. Online I see a service asking $7.91 per waterslide decal.
maybe an -"ator" could be added for those cases 😀
the lettering is gold - is there a transparent sheet where it could be done with a common printer then just glue to the speaker's trim ?
There's also an alternate decal which read
-ULTRA-FIDELITY
- - - - by
- - - Karlson
Microsoft WORD doesn't really have a font that matches
"Vladimir" (same font appears under several names) is the closest
It was probably something common in the early 1950's K15 made its debut at the fall
hifi show at the Hotel New Yorker in 1952
"Vladimir" (same font appears under several names) is the closest
It was probably something common in the early 1950's K15 made its debut at the fall
hifi show at the Hotel New Yorker in 1952
-can get half-way close with a free Singlesville script font in italics - hopefully there's something closer
Karlson Decal Script Mystery Solved
Mystery Solved
I asked a design/hifi maven of my ken
Posted by mhardy6647 (A) on January 16, 2017 at 14:01:35
In Reply to: Is there a Font close to what Karlson used for his early decal? posted by freddyi on January 15, 2017 at 10:10:54:
-- Bruce Kennett, who some of you may know from his days associated with "Listener" magazine.
Bruce, who is a heck of a guy (but not an AA "inmate" at present), kindly offered this information and allowed/encouraged me to share it:
You want the type called Trafton Script. It was designed in 1933 by Howard Trafton and issued by the Bauer Type Foundry. Back in the metal days Bauer sold it as Quick in Germany, and in France as Étoile, but any digital versions are likely to be located via Trafton Script name.
Well, there we have it!
The photo shows Art Dudley & Bruce Kennett from the Listener days (see link below).
all the best,
mrh
Mystery Solved
I asked a design/hifi maven of my ken
Posted by mhardy6647 (A) on January 16, 2017 at 14:01:35
In Reply to: Is there a Font close to what Karlson used for his early decal? posted by freddyi on January 15, 2017 at 10:10:54:
-- Bruce Kennett, who some of you may know from his days associated with "Listener" magazine.
Bruce, who is a heck of a guy (but not an AA "inmate" at present), kindly offered this information and allowed/encouraged me to share it:
You want the type called Trafton Script. It was designed in 1933 by Howard Trafton and issued by the Bauer Type Foundry. Back in the metal days Bauer sold it as Quick in Germany, and in France as Étoile, but any digital versions are likely to be located via Trafton Script name.
Well, there we have it!
The photo shows Art Dudley & Bruce Kennett from the Listener days (see link below).
all the best,
mrh
an interesting pair of old DIY K-couplers on Ebay loaded with weak motor EV coax - - appear to be "high aspect" (?) vent positioned like the 1954 K12 aka "Karlsonette"
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/POcAAOSwA3dYf4Nd/s-l1600.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/POcAAOSwA3dYf4Nd/s-l1600.jpg