I do that all the time plus my vision doesn't properly converge - are a pair of PA310 good for a punchy yet reasonably compact XKi? - a decent 40Hz would help some of these small systems. btw, Infinity's 1260W is listed as discontinued and none to be found anymore. Do you see any benefits to BP4 XKi ? fwiw I ran an MCM dvc 12 in a slit vent K12 with vents sealed - with no fill . qtc (if that applies for coupled cavity speakers -?) was around 0.9 IIRC - it seemed to have good power but I didn't have a simple sealed box for comparison.
From what I can gather, Karlson once offered his K12 as a knockdown kit without any venting - Carl Neuser seems to remember that instructions were provided for how many holes would be drilled into the panel for specific driver cases. I've seen two sets of these blank panel K12 online in the last decade or so.
here's a set drilled as seen setup for a Tannoy "Red"
From what I can gather, Karlson once offered his K12 as a knockdown kit without any venting - Carl Neuser seems to remember that instructions were provided for how many holes would be drilled into the panel for specific driver cases. I've seen two sets of these blank panel K12 online in the last decade or so.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
here's a set drilled as seen setup for a Tannoy "Red"
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Questions for xrk971 - after K15, Karlson with his smaller couplers, deleted the front shelf. What cases in modern builds should we use it and what cases should it be avoided? In K15 it seemed to: offset the first dip, add air mass to the port. The rear extension of that shelf was retained in Karlson's smaller couplers and I think sometimes has useful functions - that with absorbent material under the rear shelf can act to filter some things from coming out the port. If constricted enough - it might (?) help restrict cone movement on a kick type pulse ( dunno -?) I liked the way Karlson used the movable bar to vary the rear shelf gap on his 1954 Karlson Twelve (aka "Karlsonette" as the eight inch cabinet had not yet been introduced)
btw, I've seen K's rear shelf gap run from ~0.2-0.3 or so of nominal cone area
here are approximate dimensions for Karlson's later K12 kit as shown above - I'd love to have one made
but would like to use a K15 style port instead of the distributed hole array vent
its interesting to see Karlson's placement of the "Kimsul" damping pads - just on the sides
-nothing under the rear shelf
With side ports, it would be easy to add an internal K-tube to this K12
btw, I've seen K's rear shelf gap run from ~0.2-0.3 or so of nominal cone area
here are approximate dimensions for Karlson's later K12 kit as shown above - I'd love to have one made
but would like to use a K15 style port instead of the distributed hole array vent
its interesting to see Karlson's placement of the "Kimsul" damping pads - just on the sides
-nothing under the rear shelf
With side ports, it would be easy to add an internal K-tube to this K12
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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the scaled K15 when sitting on a floor could use some EQ to soften that 100-200 region a bit, or a stronger motor than Beta10cx - or just raise the cabinet a off the floor until it balances better. I have a stiff (70Hz fs) Eminence C12cx in a sealed klam which is on a tripod - that thing despite the horn being buried far back,~99dB sensitive woofer, has bright treble - even a room away - the compression driver could probably stand a little padding but might not matter outdoors at some distance from the klam (?) - I wonder if it could be R-J vented at this point to any advantage? there's only one cubic foot back chamber - a gapped vent sub=baffle would eat some volume. I know my Martin/Eminence 12cx in K will have better definition than Beta10cx - at least when both sit on the floor. C12cx had an edge wound 2.5" coil and 80oz magnet - the horn was much like an Electro-Voice Compound Diffraction Projector of the early 1950's. Martinsoundpro's 1114 was more compliant and should be a great Karlson driver - I have one in a 4-slot vent K12 made by Karlson and just need to whip up a quick network - I think ~1.2mH/12uf will shape the woofer about right - then 3.3uF/0.3 on the CD
I rewired a Klipsch B network as "A" for one of my K-horns using charge coupled MBGO caps - they sound better imo for this application than my AA network with Obbligato polypropylene in oil motor run caps. I have a little 8 inch driver K sitting right in front of it - drivers are Delta Pro8A and Dayton 250p on "THE TUBE" - the little K, although can't go as deep, sounds more dynamic and defined than the K-horn on drumkit and cymbals. Someone with a sense of adventure and modest wood working skills could make a really cool little K. The magnet on the 8 inch is about the same weight as that on the K33E. The little speaker does require more input power but can play surprisingly dynamic in my 18x29x8 room. Another , smaller room seems to eat up energy.
I may have to try to round up some MBGO caps for the highpass in some K-applications - don't know how to get 3.3uF other than 3x1uF in parallel - their ESR measured fine.
I may have to try to round up some MBGO caps for the highpass in some K-applications - don't know how to get 3.3uF other than 3x1uF in parallel - their ESR measured fine.
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hey X and Krew - here's a very poor video of my little "SK8" loaded with Delta Pro8a and topped with "THE TUBE" driven by a Dayton 250p
between the hideous "My Movie Maker" and my Zoom Q3 things are crummy - Q3 has so much padding that when the speaker was playing loud, levels were too low - so I had to reduce the level then use the higher sensitivity on the camera's audio,. The audio quality is OK - the speaker will as I said, play pretty loud and clear and actually sounds pretty deep on some cuts of this John French cd - I believe in strong motors .
oh - as I was using a 14 year old Dell with Musicmatch, the move between audio tracks is messy,
the little K may sound clearer than the speaker behind it - but now after making a charge coupled crossover for the K-horn, I can enjoy it for what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71pRwTGfuc&feature=youtu.be
between the hideous "My Movie Maker" and my Zoom Q3 things are crummy - Q3 has so much padding that when the speaker was playing loud, levels were too low - so I had to reduce the level then use the higher sensitivity on the camera's audio,. The audio quality is OK - the speaker will as I said, play pretty loud and clear and actually sounds pretty deep on some cuts of this John French cd - I believe in strong motors .
oh - as I was using a 14 year old Dell with Musicmatch, the move between audio tracks is messy,
the little K may sound clearer than the speaker behind it - but now after making a charge coupled crossover for the K-horn, I can enjoy it for what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71pRwTGfuc&feature=youtu.be
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AH - that previous link apparently was "private" - here's the public viewing link
https://youtu.be/T71pRwTGfuc
as Delta Pro8a is limited to 3mm xmax and doesn't reach that until loud, there's not a lot of "pressure"
at the top of the coupler to bend the wings - the lower "Karlsonette-style" port, wider aperture both
reduce pressure seen vs a port at the top of the coupler and tighter first few inches of the slot.
https://youtu.be/T71pRwTGfuc
as Delta Pro8a is limited to 3mm xmax and doesn't reach that until loud, there's not a lot of "pressure"
at the top of the coupler to bend the wings - the lower "Karlsonette-style" port, wider aperture both
reduce pressure seen vs a port at the top of the coupler and tighter first few inches of the slot.
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here's the 0.62 scale K15 with FE206EN, playing some of the same drumkit files.
There're very little cone motion at fairly high levels. FE206EN is a good Karlson driver and worked well in the larger "Karlsonette" (1st K12 from late 1954)
maybe a slightly different K-coupler with less front chamber depth, no front shelf could be better. Its respectable "as is" and I can reduce the front shelf protrusion as pieces are held by screws.
I believe after a certain point that FE206EN "soft compresses" - BL factor probably drops after a millimeter or so.
the other little K in a video I uploaded has an Eminence Delta Pro 8A mid-woofer and seems more visceral than the little Fostex. 3mm xmax plus a decent compression driver on a K-tube probably adds to impression.
https://youtu.be/GpGkYpAcUdw
There're very little cone motion at fairly high levels. FE206EN is a good Karlson driver and worked well in the larger "Karlsonette" (1st K12 from late 1954)
maybe a slightly different K-coupler with less front chamber depth, no front shelf could be better. Its respectable "as is" and I can reduce the front shelf protrusion as pieces are held by screws.
I believe after a certain point that FE206EN "soft compresses" - BL factor probably drops after a millimeter or so.
the other little K in a video I uploaded has an Eminence Delta Pro 8A mid-woofer and seems more visceral than the little Fostex. 3mm xmax plus a decent compression driver on a K-tube probably adds to impression.
https://youtu.be/GpGkYpAcUdw
Here's FE206EN in the 0.62 scale K15 with light soprano voice - my PA130XKi won't play this voice well - there's some "texture" in her voice - perhaps from close micing - it shows on my charge coupled K-horn too
FE206EN has a fairly sharp inherent 2K6 peak - that must be part of its character
https://youtu.be/NaWvtfI6FiA
FE206EN has a fairly sharp inherent 2K6 peak - that must be part of its character
https://youtu.be/NaWvtfI6FiA
OHHHHHHHHHH - I pulled out a rough Karlsonette copy which I plugged the original vent, then hacked an ~3.5" x3.75" port - its loaded with a 12LTA - for years I've had a pair of Yamaha 4281B not knowing their purpose - they're a high output super/helper tweeter with built in crossover. A pair sold on Ebay for $455. Anyhow it will need padding but I can tell it will be a great K - maybe the best for nice tone if not brutal kick.
here's one sans diaphragm for sale http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-J...Compression-Driver-JA4281B-4371-/321845834632
I think the Karlsonette front chamber is fine for 12LTA but am not thrilled with the slit vent - I rather have a square-ish vent
here's one sans diaphragm for sale http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-J...Compression-Driver-JA4281B-4371-/321845834632
I think the Karlsonette front chamber is fine for 12LTA but am not thrilled with the slit vent - I rather have a square-ish vent
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Before the music start there is HF buzzz that get louder when the music start. This is very fatiguing.
regarding the 2-way Delta Pro8a and CD on K-tube, as buzz is not audible on my headphones and laptop - sound is pretty dynamic - maybe xrk971 can give a listen. I think the scaled K15 sounds worse than the 2-way on drums - both files are so loud that they're probably clipped a large proportion of the time - I could not bend down to monitor the little camera which was sitting on a box. I'll try again - got health problems
here's one whose levels looked ok at a distance - but the helper tweeter must be 100dB sensitive as its overpowering the 12LTA
my cheap JVC nanotube headphones are very sensitive on an old ThinkPad
https://youtu.be/gALZtB8oSOc
here's one whose levels looked ok at a distance - but the helper tweeter must be 100dB sensitive as its overpowering the 12LTA
my cheap JVC nanotube headphones are very sensitive on an old ThinkPad
https://youtu.be/gALZtB8oSOc
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here's my old high aspect K18 as an "X18" running an internal K-tube - the compression driver may not be healthy but I'm too tired to pull the cabinet out and remove its back to find out.
I grabbed a generic/textbook value 1K6 Eminence network, twisted some very cheap copper clad junk wire, and voila -
A TWO WAY 18 inch WOOFER SPEAKER PLAYING LYRIC SOPRANO and HARP
https://youtu.be/XYsdJZA7coE
I grabbed a generic/textbook value 1K6 Eminence network, twisted some very cheap copper clad junk wire, and voila -
A TWO WAY 18 inch WOOFER SPEAKER PLAYING LYRIC SOPRANO and HARP
https://youtu.be/XYsdJZA7coE
Freddi,
Thanks for posting those videos above. They sound very very good!
The K-tube tweeter is surprisingly smooth and has great clarity.
Thanks for posting those videos above. They sound very very good!
The K-tube tweeter is surprisingly smooth and has great clarity.
that tube sounds smooth - but I think it measures rough (at one spot) - as a sprayer, it all mixes nice in the room.
btw - that thing, although a LF corner around 60Hz or so, can pressurize a room - got 100 times more useful power than say a 206 small BLH - and no perceptible cone movement doing it. Bass sounds very robust. Bass drums sound "real" and can be felt across a room. I need to glue the sliding port pieces in permanently - they slide to offer either a central K15 style port, or butt to provide two sidewall gap ports. There's a little bit of flex in that region. There's four closet pole dowels stiffening the wings.
I'd like to have a 12 inch version made with internal tube - perhaps in a tall aspect - but not too tall - TheJessMan can bend wood for a curved reflector. Where is the "Goldilocks moment of frontal aspect" with an HAK12 ? did the Akaback model for K15 hint at what would be about right for HAK12s ?
btw, I've got an old Beyma 12cx in a factory ~1956 slit vent K12 - once I pad its APT50 like CD, it may sound really good on vocals - I'm running just 0.18mH on woofer and 2.82 uF on the compression driver as one YouTube user does with his pair (in regular boxes) Beyma's 12cx woofer goes much higher than Beta 12cx
btw - that thing, although a LF corner around 60Hz or so, can pressurize a room - got 100 times more useful power than say a 206 small BLH - and no perceptible cone movement doing it. Bass sounds very robust. Bass drums sound "real" and can be felt across a room. I need to glue the sliding port pieces in permanently - they slide to offer either a central K15 style port, or butt to provide two sidewall gap ports. There's a little bit of flex in that region. There's four closet pole dowels stiffening the wings.
I'd like to have a 12 inch version made with internal tube - perhaps in a tall aspect - but not too tall - TheJessMan can bend wood for a curved reflector. Where is the "Goldilocks moment of frontal aspect" with an HAK12 ? did the Akaback model for K15 hint at what would be about right for HAK12s ?
btw, I've got an old Beyma 12cx in a factory ~1956 slit vent K12 - once I pad its APT50 like CD, it may sound really good on vocals - I'm running just 0.18mH on woofer and 2.82 uF on the compression driver as one YouTube user does with his pair (in regular boxes) Beyma's 12cx woofer goes much higher than Beta 12cx
i think that upright bass track is messed up from Zoom's auto setting - think that compresses and gain rides
Anyhow - here's a nice fullrange speaker in a Karlson - W8-1772 - it was playing at low level as to not overload the Zoom Q3's audio in the more sensitive setting. It plays these tracks pretty dynamically at loud volumes with good cone control and very little cone motion for output
i could use a tripod 😀 - sitting on nearby objects isn't always optimal and the Zoom has no Zoom 😱
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
Anyhow - here's a nice fullrange speaker in a Karlson - W8-1772 - it was playing at low level as to not overload the Zoom Q3's audio in the more sensitive setting. It plays these tracks pretty dynamically at loud volumes with good cone control and very little cone motion for output
i could use a tripod 😀 - sitting on nearby objects isn't always optimal and the Zoom has no Zoom 😱
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
hi xrk971 I put a dust cap back on an old B102 - its was removed to play with phase plugs in my fake Druid. Anyhow, what K would you build for this speaker? - due to the cutout on my 0.62 K15 being so tight, I cannot mount cast frame 10's plus don't have the skill to enlarge the driver cutout without fear of cosmetic damage.
A K-tube would be the HF method
I think K12 is too large for B102 and remember reducing the back chamber of of a Karlsonette/K12 copy with books,etc. until sine wave looked good and fairly symmetrical. Rear volume was probably around 1 cubic foot for the cabinet built and about half a cubic foot front chamber (30 degree baffle tilt from vertical)
one thing I don't know is whether going to a taller aspect for a given bulk will help or hurt this particular instance. Maybe (external) 24"T x 14"W x11"D - ?
port placement is another matter.
Def_Driver 'Eminence B102- old model with larger magnet' |Notes: 200 watts, 3mm Xmax - multi-pleat suspension, (Vas)=73.5 liters 2.59 cu. ft. )
Sd=344.9cm2
fs = 45
Mms=28g
Qms=7.07
Qes=0.24
Re=5.66
BL=13.8Tm
Le=0.67mH
A K-tube would be the HF method
I think K12 is too large for B102 and remember reducing the back chamber of of a Karlsonette/K12 copy with books,etc. until sine wave looked good and fairly symmetrical. Rear volume was probably around 1 cubic foot for the cabinet built and about half a cubic foot front chamber (30 degree baffle tilt from vertical)
one thing I don't know is whether going to a taller aspect for a given bulk will help or hurt this particular instance. Maybe (external) 24"T x 14"W x11"D - ?
port placement is another matter.
Def_Driver 'Eminence B102- old model with larger magnet' |Notes: 200 watts, 3mm Xmax - multi-pleat suspension, (Vas)=73.5 liters 2.59 cu. ft. )
Sd=344.9cm2
fs = 45
Mms=28g
Qms=7.07
Qes=0.24
Re=5.66
BL=13.8Tm
Le=0.67mH
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here's some sound files for some of my Karlson speakers
High Aspect Karlson speaker with Tangband W8-1772 - saxophone cut
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
18 inch two way Karlson speaker playing soprano voice and harp
https://youtu.be/XYsdJZA7coE
High Aspect Karlson speaker with Tangband W8-1772 playing drumkit recordings
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
Karlsonator Six with L. Cao F6 six Inch fullrange speaker (like the old Diatone speaker -no whizzer
https://youtu.be/bJYLZrPLmTo
Karlson Coupler with Eminence Delta Pro 8A speaker and Dayton D250p compression driver on Transylvania Power Company's "The Tube" K-tube
https://youtu.be/T71pRwTGfuc
0.62 Scale Karlson cabinet with Fostex FE206EN - Soprano voice & Harp
https://youtu.be/NaWvtfI6FiA
0.62 Scale Karlson cabinet loaded with Fostex FE206EN playing drumkit cuts
https://youtu.be/GpGkYpAcUdw
Karlson K12 with Eminence Beta 12LTA and Yamaha helper tweeter
https://youtu.be/gALZtB8oSOc
GR Research LGK fullrange speaker in mini XKi Karlson cabinet
https://youtu.be/aR8SED4knxQ
Karlson "8" with Visaton BG20 playing Rudyb Rosa
https://youtu.be/9gp14bqS4gc
High Aspect Karlson speaker with Tangband W8-1772 - saxophone cut
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
18 inch two way Karlson speaker playing soprano voice and harp
https://youtu.be/XYsdJZA7coE
High Aspect Karlson speaker with Tangband W8-1772 playing drumkit recordings
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
Karlsonator Six with L. Cao F6 six Inch fullrange speaker (like the old Diatone speaker -no whizzer
https://youtu.be/bJYLZrPLmTo
Karlson Coupler with Eminence Delta Pro 8A speaker and Dayton D250p compression driver on Transylvania Power Company's "The Tube" K-tube
https://youtu.be/T71pRwTGfuc
0.62 Scale Karlson cabinet with Fostex FE206EN - Soprano voice & Harp
https://youtu.be/NaWvtfI6FiA
0.62 Scale Karlson cabinet loaded with Fostex FE206EN playing drumkit cuts
https://youtu.be/GpGkYpAcUdw
Karlson K12 with Eminence Beta 12LTA and Yamaha helper tweeter
https://youtu.be/gALZtB8oSOc
GR Research LGK fullrange speaker in mini XKi Karlson cabinet
https://youtu.be/aR8SED4knxQ
Karlson "8" with Visaton BG20 playing Rudyb Rosa
https://youtu.be/9gp14bqS4gc
Freddi,
Thanks for the sound clips. How did you record those? Are those just still photo shots you combined to a video with a Zoom recorder file?
I like the sound of the 0.62K with FE206E. Those drums sound real good with great attack.
Thanks for the sound clips. How did you record those? Are those just still photo shots you combined to a video with a Zoom recorder file?
I like the sound of the 0.62K with FE206E. Those drums sound real good with great attack.