keep it simple?
Hello Stefan,
I was puzzled by the huge numbers of boards just to play digital audio. But there are two having the same function just to compare. But it still looks like a lot of parts.
I see you are using the bourdereau choke in that position to isolate the analoque from the digital shunt supplies. I thought just did switch a lundahl and put that 50 years old choke in.
You know in our country there is a pair of huge chokes for sale 20 henry 500mA 83 ohm. Put them in parallel and have 5 henry and 1A current capability. If you are not using shunt that would be okay. BUT they are really big and heavy. And they dont fit my new dac chassis.
If you need another bourdereau for your dac just give me a sign.
Greetings, Eduard
p.s in the attachment you can see how i wanna connect my input choke. Will put the caps on that pertinax board too. This is a tube filament power supply from Thomas Mayer in germany
Hello Stefan,
I was puzzled by the huge numbers of boards just to play digital audio. But there are two having the same function just to compare. But it still looks like a lot of parts.
I see you are using the bourdereau choke in that position to isolate the analoque from the digital shunt supplies. I thought just did switch a lundahl and put that 50 years old choke in.
You know in our country there is a pair of huge chokes for sale 20 henry 500mA 83 ohm. Put them in parallel and have 5 henry and 1A current capability. If you are not using shunt that would be okay. BUT they are really big and heavy. And they dont fit my new dac chassis.
If you need another bourdereau for your dac just give me a sign.
Greetings, Eduard
p.s in the attachment you can see how i wanna connect my input choke. Will put the caps on that pertinax board too. This is a tube filament power supply from Thomas Mayer in germany
Attachments
Very nice Stefan! Thank you for the feedbacks.
When you said DSD, were you having DoP via USB? Now with botic and DDDAC, how did you get DSD without enable the sampling lib within Mpd.conf?
Nice to see that massive vintage choke in use. 😉
When you said DSD, were you having DoP via USB? Now with botic and DDDAC, how did you get DSD without enable the sampling lib within Mpd.conf?
Nice to see that massive vintage choke in use. 😉
Hi Edward,
It already looked like a familiar build with the angled supports, the Thomas Mayer article in SP has also inspired me to go into the choke/interstage scene.........
If you compare the boards of the streamer with a cd player, it needs less space😛
And much less space than those big chokes🙄
For power supplies you can go to very big but there is a trade off; too big makes it slow, and after you have reached the optimum in component values it does not make much sense in making it even bigger.
Thanks for your proposal for the choke, I might take you on it 🙂
Yes.
A note on DSD, it was late yesterday evening 😛 I meant PCM encoded hi res files 192/24.
Listening to these files on cronus the extra resolution of these files is presented much better.
When listening to the bbb-cronus it remembered me of the DSD sound from the Doede prototype we had on audition a while ago. I have not listened extensively to the DSD proto to make a thorough analysis but in my recollection there is a similar sound signature: open, dynamic, the music flows without any restrictions. This is the new benchmark in streaming audio.
Regards,
power supply set up
Hello Stefan,
It is true you can make a power supply to big. BUT with the use of shunts the need of current of it all has a tendency to grow rather big. Having a big transformer isnt that bad. For digital it should have a static screen. And it appears that EI and R cores in general sound better than toriodal ones.
Yes, high current chokes do get big once you want some mH. I think the special LL2733 ( 544mH) are pretty nice.
I think the key element is not to make the caps to high in value. You need to look at what de French call constante de temps. The caps need to be able to charge within a certain time. I think the optimum is about 10 milliseconds.
I did send you the information about it by mail some time ago.
The writer did also publish articles about Quad and Mac Intosch tube gear and one of the reason this gear sounds nice is they did think about optimum value of caps related to the internal resistance of the transformer, the chokes or resistors in the power supply, the tube rectifier or the ss diodes and the current demand of the circuit.
Greetings, Eduard
p.s will write your name on one of the chokes. I think this brand only make turntables and reel to reel machines. I wonder if i can find out where they have been used for. They were made in a time where companies wanna make something good now the main goal is to make it cheap!!!
Hello Stefan,
It is true you can make a power supply to big. BUT with the use of shunts the need of current of it all has a tendency to grow rather big. Having a big transformer isnt that bad. For digital it should have a static screen. And it appears that EI and R cores in general sound better than toriodal ones.
Yes, high current chokes do get big once you want some mH. I think the special LL2733 ( 544mH) are pretty nice.
I think the key element is not to make the caps to high in value. You need to look at what de French call constante de temps. The caps need to be able to charge within a certain time. I think the optimum is about 10 milliseconds.
I did send you the information about it by mail some time ago.
The writer did also publish articles about Quad and Mac Intosch tube gear and one of the reason this gear sounds nice is they did think about optimum value of caps related to the internal resistance of the transformer, the chokes or resistors in the power supply, the tube rectifier or the ss diodes and the current demand of the circuit.
Greetings, Eduard
p.s will write your name on one of the chokes. I think this brand only make turntables and reel to reel machines. I wonder if i can find out where they have been used for. They were made in a time where companies wanna make something good now the main goal is to make it cheap!!!
Hi Edward,
You are right. That is why I use less capacitance on the dac boards for one...........
You are right. That is why I use less capacitance on the dac boards for one...........
Aaahhh, yesterday was a very enjoyable day and finally one of „those“ days in HiFi that I am always longing for …
CLIMBING ON MOUNTAIN TOP …
When reading this please pardon my deficiencies regarding technical “understanding” and abilities in precise explanations… and please keep in mind that even I tend to “compare” “things” which simply are not comparable – or at least are not comparable at this phase…
...both Doede and me were urgently waiting for this day to come and to test out exactly that what we long time wanted to:
his newly finished DDDAC-DSD “protytype B” with a “noise reduction” switchable in different steps...
in “comparison” to my totally untweaked DDDAC1794 four deck with Bernd’s power supply (we could have tested other DDDAC 1794
(the new DDDAC1794S blue deck with shunts...)
for example Doede’s own 8 deck with Sowters… and 1543 constellations (my 120)
but as it came out at the moment we felt no desire to do this…)
(Doede installing and configuring the new DDDAC-DSD...)
To make it short. For me:
1. this is the fulfilling of music-reproduction of a given recording (although the ultimate surroundings have yet to be build and complementarily integrated)…
(the whole new DDDAC-DSD with WaveIO, Doede's own power supply delivering 5 Volt for the WaveIO and two laboratory power supplies for 9 Volt and 15 Volt..)
2. and yes, the newly different steps in “noise reduction” have an influence on the sound… but you will need a finely tuned high end system to be able to recognize it at all… you will notice the more noise the more efficient your system is, otherwise when normal music is playing you will hardly even notice… playing pure ISO reminded me a little of listening to vinyl’s surface noise way back then…
But be aware, the new DDDAC-DSD is not to be meant in the sense that it “replaces” the DDDAC 1794 (or any other DAC for that matter), that would not work, the DDDAC-DSD is a construction completely on its own and does not play PCM…
…so it is not possible to simply “exchange” this one DAC with the DDDAC1794 (or any other) to be able to play “all” digital sources, but for our personal listening pleasures regarding the ISO-formatted-content generated from SACDs that we have in use, this is definitely the icing on the cake…
1. …to make no mistake, let me repeat: one cannot install a DDDDAC-DSD and simply get rid of the DDDAC1794 (or others), no, those HiFi-aficionados who want to listen to ISO in greatest purity without any “pollution” will need this DAC in addition to the already existing one(s) playing all the PCM-stuff. Point one.
2. Point two is that all the different already existing and implemented sorts of power supplies for the DDDAC1794 for 5 Volt and 12 Volt neither can be used for the new DDDDAC-DSD. It is because the latter works with 8 Volt and 15 Volt. Just here for testing purposes Doede managed to generate these degrees of voltages by combining adjustable laboratory power supplies (so nothing special, just to satisfy the need at the moment… but he told that in the near future he will care for creating especially power supplies with these voltages for his DDDAC-DSD)…
3. Point three was very special (to me): what most of you already know and the one or other has already in use for quite some time with his DDDAC1794 Doede for this purpose brought with him stackable shunt-regulators which he pulled over within a second on both of the decks for the left and the right channel… as I did not have listened to shunt-regulators this way, I can tell now, these are a “must”, they have a very strong positive and desired effect on the reproduced sound reminding me heavily of all the positive effects of controlled power supplies... (and if I theoretically imagine in a future step all those shunts with controlled power supplies – my oh my…)… by the way, there is good news for all the DIYers out there: there are new boards in the making with already integrated shunt-regulators done by Guido Tent… there will be no changes on the boards, just the fulfillment of the integration of the shunts with no longer need for any individual tweaking…
4. When listening to Patricia Barber’s Light My Fire (MFSL, ISO) with the shunts on Doede emphasized: “Now she is here”, and later on his wife was struck in awe saying: “It is like sitting in the first row of a concert!”…
…although at that time an uncomparable “comparison” the newly DDDAC-DSD – because of still being prototype (the DDDAC-DSD, now is in the same phase of development as was the DDDAC1794 some two and a half years ago) – did not sound “better” as the given other constellations that we actually have in use, just different…
…and the difference became immediately and obviously clear in that what “Supersurfer” from the DIY-er site fully justified already pointed out: “…I have not listened extensively to the DSD proto to make a thorough analysis but in my recollection there is a […] sound signature: open, dynamic, the music flows without any restrictions. This is the new benchmark in streaming audio...“
…just let me add, contrarily to other opinions - to me at the moment – the new proto DDDAC-DSD still does not “match” the sound of my DDDAC-1794 four deck (it was the same with the DDDAC1794 which did not match the DDDAC1543 within the same phase of development)…
…but I dare to interpolate and theoretically integrate that what is to come (based on my ears and the last six years of experience with all the other DDDAC-types and power supplies in all their different phases of development)…
… in combination with the right supporting complementary “things” and power supplies – the new DDDAC-DSD rather soon will not only become even better on its own, but reach “perfection”… perfection in the sense of reproducing ISO-files…
…this is another really spectacular effort and for me one more proof, Doede is a genius…
Bravo !!!
CLIMBING ON MOUNTAIN TOP …
When reading this please pardon my deficiencies regarding technical “understanding” and abilities in precise explanations… and please keep in mind that even I tend to “compare” “things” which simply are not comparable – or at least are not comparable at this phase…
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
...both Doede and me were urgently waiting for this day to come and to test out exactly that what we long time wanted to:
his newly finished DDDAC-DSD “protytype B” with a “noise reduction” switchable in different steps...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
in “comparison” to my totally untweaked DDDAC1794 four deck with Bernd’s power supply (we could have tested other DDDAC 1794
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(the new DDDAC1794S blue deck with shunts...)
for example Doede’s own 8 deck with Sowters… and 1543 constellations (my 120)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
but as it came out at the moment we felt no desire to do this…)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(Doede installing and configuring the new DDDAC-DSD...)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
To make it short. For me:
1. this is the fulfilling of music-reproduction of a given recording (although the ultimate surroundings have yet to be build and complementarily integrated)…
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(the whole new DDDAC-DSD with WaveIO, Doede's own power supply delivering 5 Volt for the WaveIO and two laboratory power supplies for 9 Volt and 15 Volt..)
2. and yes, the newly different steps in “noise reduction” have an influence on the sound… but you will need a finely tuned high end system to be able to recognize it at all… you will notice the more noise the more efficient your system is, otherwise when normal music is playing you will hardly even notice… playing pure ISO reminded me a little of listening to vinyl’s surface noise way back then…
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
But be aware, the new DDDAC-DSD is not to be meant in the sense that it “replaces” the DDDAC 1794 (or any other DAC for that matter), that would not work, the DDDAC-DSD is a construction completely on its own and does not play PCM…
…so it is not possible to simply “exchange” this one DAC with the DDDAC1794 (or any other) to be able to play “all” digital sources, but for our personal listening pleasures regarding the ISO-formatted-content generated from SACDs that we have in use, this is definitely the icing on the cake…
1. …to make no mistake, let me repeat: one cannot install a DDDDAC-DSD and simply get rid of the DDDAC1794 (or others), no, those HiFi-aficionados who want to listen to ISO in greatest purity without any “pollution” will need this DAC in addition to the already existing one(s) playing all the PCM-stuff. Point one.
2. Point two is that all the different already existing and implemented sorts of power supplies for the DDDAC1794 for 5 Volt and 12 Volt neither can be used for the new DDDDAC-DSD. It is because the latter works with 8 Volt and 15 Volt. Just here for testing purposes Doede managed to generate these degrees of voltages by combining adjustable laboratory power supplies (so nothing special, just to satisfy the need at the moment… but he told that in the near future he will care for creating especially power supplies with these voltages for his DDDAC-DSD)…
3. Point three was very special (to me): what most of you already know and the one or other has already in use for quite some time with his DDDAC1794 Doede for this purpose brought with him stackable shunt-regulators which he pulled over within a second on both of the decks for the left and the right channel… as I did not have listened to shunt-regulators this way, I can tell now, these are a “must”, they have a very strong positive and desired effect on the reproduced sound reminding me heavily of all the positive effects of controlled power supplies... (and if I theoretically imagine in a future step all those shunts with controlled power supplies – my oh my…)… by the way, there is good news for all the DIYers out there: there are new boards in the making with already integrated shunt-regulators done by Guido Tent… there will be no changes on the boards, just the fulfillment of the integration of the shunts with no longer need for any individual tweaking…
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
4. When listening to Patricia Barber’s Light My Fire (MFSL, ISO) with the shunts on Doede emphasized: “Now she is here”, and later on his wife was struck in awe saying: “It is like sitting in the first row of a concert!”…
…although at that time an uncomparable “comparison” the newly DDDAC-DSD – because of still being prototype (the DDDAC-DSD, now is in the same phase of development as was the DDDAC1794 some two and a half years ago) – did not sound “better” as the given other constellations that we actually have in use, just different…
…and the difference became immediately and obviously clear in that what “Supersurfer” from the DIY-er site fully justified already pointed out: “…I have not listened extensively to the DSD proto to make a thorough analysis but in my recollection there is a […] sound signature: open, dynamic, the music flows without any restrictions. This is the new benchmark in streaming audio...“
…just let me add, contrarily to other opinions - to me at the moment – the new proto DDDAC-DSD still does not “match” the sound of my DDDAC-1794 four deck (it was the same with the DDDAC1794 which did not match the DDDAC1543 within the same phase of development)…
…but I dare to interpolate and theoretically integrate that what is to come (based on my ears and the last six years of experience with all the other DDDAC-types and power supplies in all their different phases of development)…
… in combination with the right supporting complementary “things” and power supplies – the new DDDAC-DSD rather soon will not only become even better on its own, but reach “perfection”… perfection in the sense of reproducing ISO-files…
…this is another really spectacular effort and for me one more proof, Doede is a genius…
Bravo !!!
Hi Rheinhard, Doede,
Thank you for the nicely documented review!
The boards look very nice; lots of room left to experiment 😀 but maybe that is not needed (I already see the shunts)............
Is there less noise due to eliminating all the antennas from the breadboard?
Regards,
Thank you for the nicely documented review!
The boards look very nice; lots of room left to experiment 😀 but maybe that is not needed (I already see the shunts)............
Is there less noise due to eliminating all the antennas from the breadboard?
Regards,
The noise reduction comes from a feature on this prototype, which was not on the first board. This is selectable 1-2-4-8 stage moving averaging of the digital DSD Signal, this indeed reduces noise from Level LP to not noticable. As Reinhard said, you can here something when switched, but hard to notice or even say what is "better" or worse".
another note to the excelent Review from Reinhard (BIG Thanks by the way for writing this and all the Pictures 😎 ) is that hese boards work with PLUS/MINUS 15 Volt for digital section and PLUS/MINUS 8Volt for the anlog section... so much room to Experiment, yes !😀
no reading between the lines
Hello,
would be nice to sppear on the market once there is more source material available. No problem for me to wait s year or 2.
but the nicest line in the post was the one about the nee dac board with shunt boards incorporated.
greetings, eduard
Hello,
would be nice to sppear on the market once there is more source material available. No problem for me to wait s year or 2.
but the nicest line in the post was the one about the nee dac board with shunt boards incorporated.
greetings, eduard
Why can't we output our pcb files in DSL using j river for example?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I guess upscaling or downsample via software has its disadvantages. The process is no longer bit perfect. Now, whether it is audible is distant for a debate. 😉
The point is, if ones were to come to this thread, they must realised how obsessed they truely are when it comes to audio and SQ. Anything less then optimal, why should one be bothering with any NOS DAC, let alone DDDAC! 🙂
the future's so bright i gotto wear shades
Hello,
So after getting this new device you will not be able to listen to all the music you did collect in the past because your over the top pimped dddac sounds poor?
Dont forget most of us are lovers of music. Good music sounding mediocre is better than bad music sounding sublime.
Buying a 2500$ digital camera will not give you Magnum quality photos if you dont know the basics light aperture, depth of image......
Most of the best music has already been made. Usually i will go back in time to widen my collection. Not to much stuff that really needs exploring.
Greetings, eduard
Hello,
So after getting this new device you will not be able to listen to all the music you did collect in the past because your over the top pimped dddac sounds poor?
Dont forget most of us are lovers of music. Good music sounding mediocre is better than bad music sounding sublime.
Buying a 2500$ digital camera will not give you Magnum quality photos if you dont know the basics light aperture, depth of image......
Most of the best music has already been made. Usually i will go back in time to widen my collection. Not to much stuff that really needs exploring.
Greetings, eduard
one more time
Hello Juancho,
Yes, kind of reacting on what Chanh is saying.
I never did hear the dddac but i have been visiting this thread and did start with the power supply.
After receiving this new device you will not be able to listen to the music collection that you have cherishing for 2 decades or more because Doede's new baby with 20 dsd files ( i dont have a clue what is available and at what price) will keep you busy for weeks to come.
I did rip all my cd's to flac/wav so i can listen to them on my mobile devices. Some sound like crap but the music is nice!
I have a big collection of cd. Do i need to replace them by dsd ( if they will be available). A lot of new recordings do sound bad no matter which device you use to play them.
The so called audiophile labels did have nice sound sometimes but most of the music was crap to me.
I think it is still a good investment to buy a dddac.
Greetings, Eduard
Hello Juancho,
Yes, kind of reacting on what Chanh is saying.
I never did hear the dddac but i have been visiting this thread and did start with the power supply.
After receiving this new device you will not be able to listen to the music collection that you have cherishing for 2 decades or more because Doede's new baby with 20 dsd files ( i dont have a clue what is available and at what price) will keep you busy for weeks to come.
I did rip all my cd's to flac/wav so i can listen to them on my mobile devices. Some sound like crap but the music is nice!
I have a big collection of cd. Do i need to replace them by dsd ( if they will be available). A lot of new recordings do sound bad no matter which device you use to play them.
The so called audiophile labels did have nice sound sometimes but most of the music was crap to me.
I think it is still a good investment to buy a dddac.
Greetings, Eduard
Hi Eduard, in principle I agreed in what you are saying. I am in the same situation, in the last 2 years I spent a lot of money to buy all my music in flac.
It is also true that the DSD are not yet so popular, at least on what I see around, but it is also true that, as far I understand, they are a completely different approach to our beloved music.
I am really curious to understand better what Doede is proposing and I am quite sure that will be something "different" from the DDDAC.
I am also sure that when will be the time Doede will explain everything to all of us in detail as he has done already (I would say magnificently) with the DDDAC project. I think that just at that time we can understand what is the Doede DSD and what can be the impact in our music collection.
Anyway, even if I decide to build a DOede DSD this doesn't mean that I will put back my DDDAC in the box... I love it too much 🙂
Regards,
Enrico
Hi Rheinhard and Doede,
Thanks for the nice post and pictures... After the first introduction of the Doede DSD, is really interesting to see some more pictures and have some listening impressions. Thanks!
@Doede, I am sorry but can refrain to ask... I see in your pictures above that you are still using the EFR single board with shunts and buffer circuit that I send you some time ago.
Is really nice to see my little board in your hands 🙂 but if I don't remember wrong in your last listening session you can't play the board in the proper way because of some power supply issue.
Maybe you have the chance to listen a little better? You have any suggestion or though?
Thanks and Regards,
Enrico
Thanks for the nice post and pictures... After the first introduction of the Doede DSD, is really interesting to see some more pictures and have some listening impressions. Thanks!
@Doede, I am sorry but can refrain to ask... I see in your pictures above that you are still using the EFR single board with shunts and buffer circuit that I send you some time ago.
Is really nice to see my little board in your hands 🙂 but if I don't remember wrong in your last listening session you can't play the board in the proper way because of some power supply issue.
Maybe you have the chance to listen a little better? You have any suggestion or though?
Thanks and Regards,
Enrico