Ant,
I have a few more questions:
1. Do you find dust to be a problem?
2. Do you have any advice regarding polishers? I'm thinking of using an attachment to an angle grinder or buffer attachment for a drill.
3. How did you get the sharp line between black and white?
I have a few more questions:
1. Do you find dust to be a problem?
2. Do you have any advice regarding polishers? I'm thinking of using an attachment to an angle grinder or buffer attachment for a drill.
3. How did you get the sharp line between black and white?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As MJL has mentioned, this stuff is requires some heavy duty protective gear to be used safely. This cannot be overstated. Just to re-emphasize the point, I have copied an extract from the NIOSH publication:
NIOSH Safety and Health Topic:
Isocyanates
Isocyanates are a family of highly reactive, low molecular weight chemicals. They are widely used in the manufacture of flexible and rigid foams, fibers, coatings such as paints and varnishes, and elastomers, and are increasingly used in the automobile industry, autobody repair, and building insulation materials. Spray-on polyurethane products containing isocyanates have been developed for a wide range of retail, commercial, and industrial uses to protect cement, wood, fiberglass, steel and aluminum, including protective coatings for truck beds, trailers, boats, foundations, and decks.
Isocyanates are powerful irritants to the mucous membranes of the eyes and gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts. Direct skin contact can also cause marked inflammation. Isocyanates can also sensitize workers, making them subject to severe asthma attacks if they are exposed again. Death from severe asthma in some sensitized subjects has been reported. Workers potentially exposed to isocyanates who experience persistent or recurring eye irritation, nasal congestion, dry or sore throat, cold-like symptoms, cough, shortness of breath, wheezing, or chest tightness should see a physician knowledgeable in work-related health problems.
Preventing exposure to isocyanates is a critical step in eliminating the health hazard. Engineering controls such as closed systems and ventilation should be the principal method for minimizing isocyanate exposure in the workplace. Other controls, such as worker isolation and personal protective clothing and equipment may also be necessary. Early recognition of sensitization and prompt and strict elimination of exposures is essential to reduce the risk of long-term or permanent respiratory problems for workers who have become sensitized.
NIOSH Safety and Health Topic:
Isocyanates
Isocyanates are a family of highly reactive, low molecular weight chemicals. They are widely used in the manufacture of flexible and rigid foams, fibers, coatings such as paints and varnishes, and elastomers, and are increasingly used in the automobile industry, autobody repair, and building insulation materials. Spray-on polyurethane products containing isocyanates have been developed for a wide range of retail, commercial, and industrial uses to protect cement, wood, fiberglass, steel and aluminum, including protective coatings for truck beds, trailers, boats, foundations, and decks.
Isocyanates are powerful irritants to the mucous membranes of the eyes and gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts. Direct skin contact can also cause marked inflammation. Isocyanates can also sensitize workers, making them subject to severe asthma attacks if they are exposed again. Death from severe asthma in some sensitized subjects has been reported. Workers potentially exposed to isocyanates who experience persistent or recurring eye irritation, nasal congestion, dry or sore throat, cold-like symptoms, cough, shortness of breath, wheezing, or chest tightness should see a physician knowledgeable in work-related health problems.
Preventing exposure to isocyanates is a critical step in eliminating the health hazard. Engineering controls such as closed systems and ventilation should be the principal method for minimizing isocyanate exposure in the workplace. Other controls, such as worker isolation and personal protective clothing and equipment may also be necessary. Early recognition of sensitization and prompt and strict elimination of exposures is essential to reduce the risk of long-term or permanent respiratory problems for workers who have become sensitized.
I would in no way undermind your warnings but the lethal degree of Dupont Imron may be a bit overstated. I painted my homebuilt airplane, a Starduster II pictured below, in 1979 with Imron and I am still here. The current owner brought it to Mobile in 2006 and have included pictures of it from that visit. It has been owned by several people including some in England (thus the different N number) and the paint still looks slick and new. Obviously a very durable and long lasting finish. No, it has not been re-painted...
Ray
I don't want to start an argument, just making a point. Of course we know a LOT more today than we did in 1979.
Well, I can't seem to post more than one picture at a time. Please forgive if this is boring.
Ray
I don't want to start an argument, just making a point. Of course we know a LOT more today than we did in 1979.
Well, I can't seem to post more than one picture at a time. Please forgive if this is boring.
Attachments
paulspencer said:
No problems with dust. I spray outside, no booth or anything like that. The garden is sheltered by about 8-9ft+ on all sides so wind isn't a problem. You do have to pick the right day to spray but as long as the sun is out, not much wind and you've got a humidity level of less than 65% then your good to go.
Avoid using the angle grinder or drill, they're too rough for the job. What you want is a variable speed polisher. You don't need much rotational speed at all to get a buffing action. Less is definitely more here. Start using the grinder etc. and you'll probably burn and wreck the paint. There's always a specific tool for the job and in this case its a variable speed polisher or hand polishing.
3M Fine Line masking tape. It gives a really distinct edge between area's. I was impressed with it.
Ray Collins said:
Ray,
You did a very nice job on the plane, that really looks good.
As far as the paint goes, I was just going by what a friend told me that's a painter at Boeings and a co-worker that does custom paint jobs on cars and motorcycles. When I stopped painting, that stuff was just coming on to the market, so I've never used it.
Since my knowledge of the SOTA paint is somewhat dated, it seems best that I refrain from speaking out of turn and giving information that is dubious or "overstated."
Adios Amigos,
TerryO
Well, if it looks that good after 29 years and it's not sitting in a museum, then you know it's got to have some nasties in it! lol
Ant, that's a very impressive line! I'm impressed as well. I never thought you could do that with masking tape. Must be the Rolls Royce of masking tape!
I'm still wondering if you sand your colour coats. Or do you just spray right on top right after?
Ant, that's a very impressive line! I'm impressed as well. I never thought you could do that with masking tape. Must be the Rolls Royce of masking tape!
I'm still wondering if you sand your colour coats. Or do you just spray right on top right after?
The other problem with Isocyanate is that regular organic vapor cartridges in the respirator do very little to filter it out. I've contacted manufacturers but got no definitive answer.
I love 2k but I also have a 3000cfm spray booth. If you don't have good ventilation, stay away from it.
I haven't heard of anyone dropping dead from it but why take chances?
None of this finishing business is exactly healthy. Lacquer isn't made from minerals and vitamins, water based finishes are full of formaldehyde, so all this has to be approached with respect.
1)Dust is less of a problem with faster drying finishes. Fast drying solvent will shorten flash time. Wet the floor, sweep, vacuum clean, every bit helps. Make sure your shirts is as lint free as possible.
2)Buffer attachment on the drill is a waste of money and time. Good polishers cost money and cheap ones hardly work at all. Try renting Milwaukee or De Walt in a local hardware store. You may have to buy your own polishing bonnets. Foam bonnets work the pest on catalyzed finishes, they come in different firmness grades and used with different grade compounds.
McGuire's compounds work just as good as 3M but cost a lot less.
3)Masking tape! Mask the area off, spray tone or solid color, remove the tape and clear coat.
Easier sad then done.
I love 2k but I also have a 3000cfm spray booth. If you don't have good ventilation, stay away from it.
I haven't heard of anyone dropping dead from it but why take chances?
None of this finishing business is exactly healthy. Lacquer isn't made from minerals and vitamins, water based finishes are full of formaldehyde, so all this has to be approached with respect.
1)Dust is less of a problem with faster drying finishes. Fast drying solvent will shorten flash time. Wet the floor, sweep, vacuum clean, every bit helps. Make sure your shirts is as lint free as possible.
2)Buffer attachment on the drill is a waste of money and time. Good polishers cost money and cheap ones hardly work at all. Try renting Milwaukee or De Walt in a local hardware store. You may have to buy your own polishing bonnets. Foam bonnets work the pest on catalyzed finishes, they come in different firmness grades and used with different grade compounds.
McGuire's compounds work just as good as 3M but cost a lot less.
3)Masking tape! Mask the area off, spray tone or solid color, remove the tape and clear coat.
Easier sad then done.
paulspencer said:
Its bloody good stuff. Fine line tape is specifically designed for creating sharp and defined edges between colours. Its a tool for custom paint jobs rather than regular masking tape which is really just used for sticking masking paper down and covering areas where you don't want overspray.
Regular masking tape lets the paint bleed through giving a fuzzy looking line, fine line tape doesn't. If your wanting to use some of this I'd highly recommend the 3M brand, it worked out great for me as you can see in that shot you posted.
No point in colour sanding any more, not with the clearcoats that around now. Colour sanding dates way way back to 70's, 80's and earlier than that.
Be really anal about your priming and insure its near perfect as you can get then just spray your base coat with no sanding afterwards, then apply your clear over that and finally buff for your mirror shine. The only time you might want to sand you base is if your using metallics and want a really clean look but you'd only very lightly sand between each metallic coat and you wouldn't sand the last coat before the clear for obvious reasons.
I noticed you mentioned about spraying timeline. About that - you don't need to all this in a day. For priming its good to leave a week before sanding, this allows it to harden and for the wood/MDF to settle as it absorbs paint material and adjusts accordingly. What you do need to do in one day is the basecoat and clearcoat and have it done in preferably 2-3 hours or less from start to finish. Paints have a flash off period and you don't want to spray additional material whilst this is happening but on the other hand they also begin the curing process very soon after being sprayed, how soon depends on the conditions of the surrounding environment but you really don't want to leave it an hour between coats or spend 6 hours spraying the same piece from start to finish because if you do then its very likely your finish will suffer - I know mine did when I lazied around and didn't have done quick enough. The result? I got random hair line cracks running vertically and horizontally in the clear coat. I had to strip and redo. This is caused by the layers curing at different rates due to the long offset in the time taken between coats.
TerryO,
Hope I didn't offend you; if I did I apologize.
I think R-Carpenter's conclusions are prudent and should help all of us stay alive.
Ray
Hope I didn't offend you; if I did I apologize.
I think R-Carpenter's conclusions are prudent and should help all of us stay alive.
Ray
Thanks for all the great help guys.
I've just come back from buying stuff. I think I made a dumb decision. I bought a polisher on sale and just assumed it would be variable speed. Well you know what they say about assumptions! Not my usual style of buying. It has only one speed - 3000 rpm spinning free. It doesn't look gentle.
Very similar to this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CAR-WAX-POLI...ryZ72470QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
10" pad with lots of padding.
Is it a bad idea?
Still, do I need it to be gentler for my speaker boxes than for the car?
What's wrong with the drill attachment? That is a variable speed, although the way you hold it isn't ideal.
Having a look at those Dewalt and Milwaulkee polishers, they aren't cheap! But nothing else seems that it will go below 600 rpm.
I've just come back from buying stuff. I think I made a dumb decision. I bought a polisher on sale and just assumed it would be variable speed. Well you know what they say about assumptions! Not my usual style of buying. It has only one speed - 3000 rpm spinning free. It doesn't look gentle.
Very similar to this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CAR-WAX-POLI...ryZ72470QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
10" pad with lots of padding.
Is it a bad idea?
Still, do I need it to be gentler for my speaker boxes than for the car?
What's wrong with the drill attachment? That is a variable speed, although the way you hold it isn't ideal.
Having a look at those Dewalt and Milwaulkee polishers, they aren't cheap! But nothing else seems that it will go below 600 rpm.
paulspencer said:
That polisher will work, but you need to be careful. That's the same for anything else though - careful. It's not hard to ruin a paint job.
The 5" lambswool polishing attachment for a drill will work - that's all I used to use. I still use it actually, for small areas and a quick, high speed buff up.
I have a 7" Makita polisher that I use for the big panels, and it saves a lot of time, but it was relatively expensive.
I'll see if I can get a refund. 3000 rpm seems a bit much! It not only rotates in orbital fashion, it also vibrates in and out. If you put your fingers on it, they get hot very quickly.
If I was only doing one project, then hiring would make sense. But I have many projects, I'd soon end up covering the most of the cost of buying.
The Dewalt is $360 here. Outch! But for about $60 or so, I can get an ebay polisher which will go as slow as 600 rpm. Basically similar to the Dewalt but much cheaper. Angle grinder style. They don't appear to be orbital, they are 7" (instead of 10") and it seems they would be gentler. Not ideal. Does that sound like a workable compromise?
If I was only doing one project, then hiring would make sense. But I have many projects, I'd soon end up covering the most of the cost of buying.
The Dewalt is $360 here. Outch! But for about $60 or so, I can get an ebay polisher which will go as slow as 600 rpm. Basically similar to the Dewalt but much cheaper. Angle grinder style. They don't appear to be orbital, they are 7" (instead of 10") and it seems they would be gentler. Not ideal. Does that sound like a workable compromise?
BRAND NEW 1200W ELECTRIC SANDER POLISHER
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-12...oryZ3247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Hello Terry,
Thank you for your insite and warning when working with Dupont's Imron paint.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of paint does your friend at Boeing use? That paint obviously is very durable and with a nice gloss!
Thank you for your insite and warning when working with Dupont's Imron paint.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of paint does your friend at Boeing use? That paint obviously is very durable and with a nice gloss!
This may actually work pretty good. Surely it's not going outlast Makita, De Walt or Milwaukee but hey it's $50. The bonnets that I use have Velcro backing and very easy to change. Plus they don't spin around like tie ups. Ask seller if the polishing pad has Velcro on it or it only works with tie up bonnets.
I've been looking at all the local hardware stores. The only decent polishers are Makita at $400! The sales guy did manage to find a very new polisher, which they don't have in stock. He said it would go for $100 and the specs say 0-3000 rpm. What it doesn't show is if it has a variable speed trigger. It has 6 speed settings. I'll find out soon.
If that doesn't work out, I've thought up how to modify a power drill to operate better - by making a better handle to grip on both sides to get proper control, with the trigger held down.
Is 600 rpm still too fast?
If that doesn't work out, I've thought up how to modify a power drill to operate better - by making a better handle to grip on both sides to get proper control, with the trigger held down.
Is 600 rpm still too fast?
Thanks. I'll see what I can find out about this polisher. It's going to be some time before I have speakers ready to paint!