nice comparison of 10 inchers, Satori WO24P is there, as well
google will translate it easily
https://www.justdiyit.com/grand-comparatif-de-10-pouces-partie-1/
google will translate it easily
https://www.justdiyit.com/grand-comparatif-de-10-pouces-partie-1/
More progress on the two pairs of boxes.
One set for the 15PR400s, on the left side of below pic (more bracing to go into that). Another set for the NERO SW800s on the right side
The NERO SW800 boxes (backside view) being built exactly as per the drawing in above post 🙂
Front view
double thick (36mm) birch plywood panels to go on the baffles and back side of each box
One set for the 15PR400s, on the left side of below pic (more bracing to go into that). Another set for the NERO SW800s on the right side
The NERO SW800 boxes (backside view) being built exactly as per the drawing in above post 🙂
Front view
double thick (36mm) birch plywood panels to go on the baffles and back side of each box
@Gill.T : Yes.. 🙂
The plan is to have to 15 PR400 reach upto the CD-horn (SB audience Rosso 65CDN-T + EXAR 400) frequency range up top. Down in the lower frequencies around around 100Hz, it hands over to the NERO SW 800.
The whole bass-mid module including the two drivers is to be arranged in a Genelec W371A type controlled directivity configuration down to around 100Hz (at least initially, for experimentation). Based on how that experiment goes, the final system configuration will be fixed. 🙂
This is the kind of directivity I am looking for
Let's see where it all ends up.. 😀
The plan is to have to 15 PR400 reach upto the CD-horn (SB audience Rosso 65CDN-T + EXAR 400) frequency range up top. Down in the lower frequencies around around 100Hz, it hands over to the NERO SW 800.
The whole bass-mid module including the two drivers is to be arranged in a Genelec W371A type controlled directivity configuration down to around 100Hz (at least initially, for experimentation). Based on how that experiment goes, the final system configuration will be fixed. 🙂
This is the kind of directivity I am looking for
Let's see where it all ends up.. 😀
Attachments
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While I am waiting for the above-big boxes for the 15inch drivers, my ESI audio interface (which I used to implement DSP for my cardioid computer speakers) developed some issues.. So the speakers have not been playing for a while..
When I got some free time, I quickly simulated a full passive crossover for the cardioid speakers.. Here are the details.. 🙂
VituixCAD six pack
The impedance does dip to 3 ohms in the 500Ha region. I am hoping it might be ok.
Vertical polar
Quick reverse null test to see the extent of phase matching at crossover
When I got some free time, I quickly simulated a full passive crossover for the cardioid speakers.. Here are the details.. 🙂
VituixCAD six pack
The impedance does dip to 3 ohms in the 500Ha region. I am hoping it might be ok.
Vertical polar
Quick reverse null test to see the extent of phase matching at crossover
I recently saw the below speaker that uses a lot of Purifi drivers and their amps per speaker along with FIR DSP. Somehow a post I made here got deleted (accidentally by me?) or something..
Anyway here is the speaker.. It looks good except for the lack of some measurements..
https://www.monoandstereo.com/airplain-acoustics-super-phli-speakers/
Anyway here is the speaker.. It looks good except for the lack of some measurements..
https://www.monoandstereo.com/airplain-acoustics-super-phli-speakers/
Super Phili uses waveguide for amt and a mid four woofers from Purifi. DSP-controlled and with Weiss dac and Purifi Eigentakt amps- Should be good and capable of high spl. Esthetics is in the eyes of the beholder... Why are all 4 woofers on the same side?
https://airplain.ch/index.php/products-2/?lang=en
I don't follow Mono&Stereo, their reviews are just thin air to me...
https://airplain.ch/index.php/products-2/?lang=en
I don't follow Mono&Stereo, their reviews are just thin air to me...
I would also say that looks are more important here as a perfect baffle design. The waveguide could be better when not forced in a round shape. Put the woofers on both sides for impulse compensation. There are edges which would not be neccesary.
So let's stick to diy and avoid mistakes ;-)
So let's stick to diy and avoid mistakes ;-)
I suspect the odd recesses on the drivers is to enable the fabric grill frames. One would hope that the inner edge of the grill frames would be profiled to minimize diffraction or a cavity resonance... but we have all seen commercial designs with dumb features, so maybe, maybe not...
Whilst I concur that whilst that may be a impressive looking speaker with a great parts list, I concur with others who pointed out some of the design err.. weaknesses.
There's an old saying that goes something like this- "It’s often better to remain silent than to say something negative. Kindness and positivity can go a long way." We teach this to our kids. But what may be good parenting advice may not be good adult practice or policy.
Because there IS a problem of remaining silent for the perceived greater good of "positivity" that permeates through may societies- in the home, in the work place, whether it be private business/corporations or government. Those who speak up may be considered agitators. And so we remain silent on difficult issues.
Luckily we can have an authentic discussion here on speakers (or microphones) without fear of reprisal. When was the last time you heard authentic discussion on difficult issues facing modernity in say, politics?
PS. I enjoy communicating with our European friends (you know who you are) who speak in a frank/direct manner. No baloney!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullsheet#Harry_Frankfurt's_concept
(replace ee with i) to circumvent the forum's autocorrection
There's an old saying that goes something like this- "It’s often better to remain silent than to say something negative. Kindness and positivity can go a long way." We teach this to our kids. But what may be good parenting advice may not be good adult practice or policy.
Because there IS a problem of remaining silent for the perceived greater good of "positivity" that permeates through may societies- in the home, in the work place, whether it be private business/corporations or government. Those who speak up may be considered agitators. And so we remain silent on difficult issues.
Luckily we can have an authentic discussion here on speakers (or microphones) without fear of reprisal. When was the last time you heard authentic discussion on difficult issues facing modernity in say, politics?
PS. I enjoy communicating with our European friends (you know who you are) who speak in a frank/direct manner. No baloney!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullsheet#Harry_Frankfurt's_concept
(replace ee with i) to circumvent the forum's autocorrection
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This particular issue can be expressed backwards: how to make ideal response with ideal transducers? one soon finds out it's not straight forward, because all of them influence each others response, more or less, being each others immediate acoustic environment as they are static size physical objects with overlapping bandwidths. Even more importantly, what is ideal response for my room?
While it is likely a good speaker, it seems to made with the recipe every beginner appears in the forum with: best drivers and best amps must make best speaker 🙂 while it gets long way it's still very narrow view on the subject so looks like another moneymaking attempt, like most expensive highend stuff, not very interesting. Gotta remember though that images and text doesn't come with audio perception so better keep open mind until heard 🙂
edit. thinking of it, commercial speakers have much more constrains than DIY, they'd like to sell as much as possible, but also a minimum amount, just to get profitable. If they sold speakers that I like, they might only sell one, or none, because there are many things I want and thats why I DIY. Now, take random hifi person and very likely they can enumerate brands and makes and models, but don't necessaily know which has longer wavelength 100Hz or 1000Hz. For this reason, it is not logical to assume many customers know this stuff very deeply, but likely evaluate things on face value. Make a small rectangular box with recpgnizable drivers and it's familiar to a big audience. Perhaps profits are so thin it must be a rectamgular box to get the price anything realistic, and so on. Invest on stuff that matters for the clients and for the business, and it's fine. Doesn't mean the product is better or worse than something else, it's just another business and another product. A DIYer needs to be aware where to get inspiration and why, there is no necessity to think like business to make one off DIY system for one particular application, which likely helps to make better compromises so the system can be optimized for something else than profit, like audio quality, or personal aesthetics, what ever feels most important.
It's good to see that the system seems to be designed from basics, enough SPL capability and full bandwidth 🙂
While it is likely a good speaker, it seems to made with the recipe every beginner appears in the forum with: best drivers and best amps must make best speaker 🙂 while it gets long way it's still very narrow view on the subject so looks like another moneymaking attempt, like most expensive highend stuff, not very interesting. Gotta remember though that images and text doesn't come with audio perception so better keep open mind until heard 🙂
edit. thinking of it, commercial speakers have much more constrains than DIY, they'd like to sell as much as possible, but also a minimum amount, just to get profitable. If they sold speakers that I like, they might only sell one, or none, because there are many things I want and thats why I DIY. Now, take random hifi person and very likely they can enumerate brands and makes and models, but don't necessaily know which has longer wavelength 100Hz or 1000Hz. For this reason, it is not logical to assume many customers know this stuff very deeply, but likely evaluate things on face value. Make a small rectangular box with recpgnizable drivers and it's familiar to a big audience. Perhaps profits are so thin it must be a rectamgular box to get the price anything realistic, and so on. Invest on stuff that matters for the clients and for the business, and it's fine. Doesn't mean the product is better or worse than something else, it's just another business and another product. A DIYer needs to be aware where to get inspiration and why, there is no necessity to think like business to make one off DIY system for one particular application, which likely helps to make better compromises so the system can be optimized for something else than profit, like audio quality, or personal aesthetics, what ever feels most important.
It's good to see that the system seems to be designed from basics, enough SPL capability and full bandwidth 🙂
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I think for this exercise you would find using Daytons measurement files much more useful as a tutorial than tracing data.
Use only as a cross over tutorial
You will need to do a full series of on and off axis measurements of the Satori drivers. There are lots of references on measurements. My recommendation is wait for a sunny day and do your measurements outside. You will be reward with meaningful data!
With your mid to tweeter crossover there are a few physical aspects that are going to play out for the best vertical polar response.
1. The distance Y between the drivers
2. The distance Z between the drivers
3. The slope or order of the crossover.
With a simulator you really need minimum phase transform with tail correction to make using a simulator worthwhile.
The main thing is to learn the workflow of the simulation and understand how to collect and use data.
I my advice is to start off with a passive crossover as this will give you a better overall understanding of what drivers are all about, the real limitations ect.
Beginners tend to force designs in dsp which is not the right way to go about it. Don’t pin cushion a driver with PEQ. Just work with what you have.
Obtaining useable measurements is another skill.
Then look at an analogue active crossover and then later a dsp crossover.
It’s always going to a case of accepting a few competing compromises
Attempting to get a flat crossover without the correct phase at the crossover is the number one pitfall of anyone new to filter design.
Here is a project by Texas Instruments
https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidu035/tidu035.pdf?ts=1720494384763&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Its an analogue active design but you will get a lot of perspective on the topic.
The the diffraction stuff is the fine detail.
Diffraction is all the buzz on the forums right now. It’s a rabbit hole that will only confuse you. Put the tweeter atop your enclosure with you want good imaging.
Narrow baffles matter more than anything if diffraction as a subjective value is importance. Just make a tower using 6 1/2 in drivers or place a head module on top of the bass enclosure.
At this point you want predictable design choices, not a whole lot of empirical iterations that will need testing and re testing.
Try take everything thing on at once. It’s too much.
Aim for good driver blending. The look at the overall tonal balance. Thus is the number one key determinant of subjectivity. In the simulation you can look at global optimisation after you have a mockup working.
The advantage of going active is you have more control over the tonal optimisation particularly below 100 hertz.
Take it one step at a time and don’t focus attempting perfection before you even start. Everything you see in reviews are smoothed magazine curves.
Use only as a cross over tutorial
You will need to do a full series of on and off axis measurements of the Satori drivers. There are lots of references on measurements. My recommendation is wait for a sunny day and do your measurements outside. You will be reward with meaningful data!
With your mid to tweeter crossover there are a few physical aspects that are going to play out for the best vertical polar response.
1. The distance Y between the drivers
2. The distance Z between the drivers
3. The slope or order of the crossover.
With a simulator you really need minimum phase transform with tail correction to make using a simulator worthwhile.
The main thing is to learn the workflow of the simulation and understand how to collect and use data.
I my advice is to start off with a passive crossover as this will give you a better overall understanding of what drivers are all about, the real limitations ect.
Beginners tend to force designs in dsp which is not the right way to go about it. Don’t pin cushion a driver with PEQ. Just work with what you have.
Obtaining useable measurements is another skill.
Then look at an analogue active crossover and then later a dsp crossover.
It’s always going to a case of accepting a few competing compromises
Attempting to get a flat crossover without the correct phase at the crossover is the number one pitfall of anyone new to filter design.
Here is a project by Texas Instruments
https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidu035/tidu035.pdf?ts=1720494384763&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Its an analogue active design but you will get a lot of perspective on the topic.
The the diffraction stuff is the fine detail.
Diffraction is all the buzz on the forums right now. It’s a rabbit hole that will only confuse you. Put the tweeter atop your enclosure with you want good imaging.
Narrow baffles matter more than anything if diffraction as a subjective value is importance. Just make a tower using 6 1/2 in drivers or place a head module on top of the bass enclosure.
At this point you want predictable design choices, not a whole lot of empirical iterations that will need testing and re testing.
Try take everything thing on at once. It’s too much.
Aim for good driver blending. The look at the overall tonal balance. Thus is the number one key determinant of subjectivity. In the simulation you can look at global optimisation after you have a mockup working.
The advantage of going active is you have more control over the tonal optimisation particularly below 100 hertz.
Take it one step at a time and don’t focus attempting perfection before you even start. Everything you see in reviews are smoothed magazine curves.
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@macka: I am not sure if the above suggestions were for my ongoing project.
My Satori WO24P driver-based 3-way project is a thing of the past now..
I have mostly been listening to my 2way system with dual Satori WO24P + EXAR 400 horns for a few months now, driven by a Zoudio DSP amp.
It is much better than my previous attempts in many technical, subjective, and easiness-to-use aspects.
At the moment, I am working on a dual 15-inch driver-based-bass mid-module and a horn/coax/synergy horn top module.
Unless I get Purifi drivers (which someday I will.. 😉 ), I am not returning to smaller-size drivers for anything except high frequencies.. 😀
But Thanks for these suggestions anyway.. 🙂
My Satori WO24P driver-based 3-way project is a thing of the past now..
I have mostly been listening to my 2way system with dual Satori WO24P + EXAR 400 horns for a few months now, driven by a Zoudio DSP amp.
It is much better than my previous attempts in many technical, subjective, and easiness-to-use aspects.
At the moment, I am working on a dual 15-inch driver-based-bass mid-module and a horn/coax/synergy horn top module.
Unless I get Purifi drivers (which someday I will.. 😉 ), I am not returning to smaller-size drivers for anything except high frequencies.. 😀
But Thanks for these suggestions anyway.. 🙂
I wonder how good this coax driver is, if I want to experiment with a big coax driver that goes down to 200Hz, even in a passive cardioid slotted enclosure
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/coaxial-speaker-bms-12c382-8-8-ohm-12-inch.html
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/coaxial-speaker-bms-12c382-8-8-ohm-12-inch.html
Here they are in use in Oslo with isobaric subs using BMS 12N630:s at my friends place. Very, very good but not your typical hifi speaker. These are driven by Fouraudio FIR plate amps using Pascal power. After many hours I gave up on passive filter design for these.
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Don't steal my idea! 😉
I finally heard them and like how they sound. Like Airvoid the one i heard are heavily processed ( dsp). But i might be biased, there is few Bms products i heard i didn't liked...