There were pictures on this site, I think member "PRR" posted them, 757 nose gear collapsed because the lock pin and regular pin were the same size, and holes close together.
The workers put the pin in the wrong hole, while starting work on the landing gear, plane went nose down.
Silly people, they could have used different size pins, idiot proof.
And while looking for that image or news on the net, it turns out that the 757 also has had frequent reports of nose wheel falling off.
And Boeing is said to be a leader in cutting edge technology......
The workers put the pin in the wrong hole, while starting work on the landing gear, plane went nose down.
Silly people, they could have used different size pins, idiot proof.
And while looking for that image or news on the net, it turns out that the 757 also has had frequent reports of nose wheel falling off.
And Boeing is said to be a leader in cutting edge technology......
There is a PROCEDURE and a CHECK LIST....
There is supposed to be a Quality Inspector when you do this work.
The technicians are supposed to follow the procedure which includes double checking to make sure the pin goes in the correct place. They do this with a CHECK LIST.
Not Boeing's fault.
Aviation is all about check lists. Often, when you read about a crash, it will be pilot error... stuff like they forgot to lower the flaps.... some crew didn't follow the CHECK LIST.
Safety is never cheap.... keep the MBAs out of it.
There is supposed to be a Quality Inspector when you do this work.
The technicians are supposed to follow the procedure which includes double checking to make sure the pin goes in the correct place. They do this with a CHECK LIST.
Not Boeing's fault.
Aviation is all about check lists. Often, when you read about a crash, it will be pilot error... stuff like they forgot to lower the flaps.... some crew didn't follow the CHECK LIST.
Safety is never cheap.... keep the MBAs out of it.
Exactly
^ "so less chance of mistakes by careless people in a hurry."
We do not want careless people working on aircraft maintenance in a hurry!
A different pin would make maintenance and the supply chain more expensive and fragile. It would also affect the cost of R&D and manufacturing.
You just have to make sure people follow the rules and procedures.. if they don't, well they should lose their jobs and held responsible. If it's an MBA cutting costs, they should be liable as well!
^ "so less chance of mistakes by careless people in a hurry."
We do not want careless people working on aircraft maintenance in a hurry!
A different pin would make maintenance and the supply chain more expensive and fragile. It would also affect the cost of R&D and manufacturing.
You just have to make sure people follow the rules and procedures.. if they don't, well they should lose their jobs and held responsible. If it's an MBA cutting costs, they should be liable as well!
Well we can't sell Fosters here! Seriously, almost no-one drinks Fosters here (although it is a Victorian beer, so we don't see it much here - on the other side of the country) but the most I'd seen it in ages was in night clubs in Aberdeen, Scotland, some years ago Must have been a '...flood the market with this crap...' marketing technique because once people had tasted it once it wouldn't be sold again. I've never heard anyone say they like Fosters, even here. There must be some people in Victoria buying it to keep it going...
Yes. But that's not realistic. When you're building a product that can kill several hundred people in one fell swoop, make it idiot proof. If a different pin adds a million bucks to the bottom line, so be it. How many different pins could Boeing have developed and manufactured with all the money they've lost over incidents, accidents, mishaps, etc?
I am seeing more and more Indians coming back from the UK, Canada and Australia, particularly the recent shifters.
Much of it has to do with revised resident permit policies, it is much cheaper to shift there now, BUT the cost of living is too high, jobs are scarce in declining economies...the UK is really in bad economic shape.
However, that is not the point of this thread.
I remember getting hold of a job card from the Mahindra production line in Mumbai in 1981-82, EVERY single operation done at that supervisor's level had to be double checked, and signed by the worker, and the supervisor, for each vehicle.
Little wonder they are more reliable than the original Jeep, which they used to make under license.
With increased traffic, the planes here are worked upon at night between 11 PM and 5 AM (for domestic flights), so there may be pressure on the crews to be fast....so yes careless things will happen.
And if the crew member is new, and his supervisor on leave or whatever, you have a beginner who might cause an accident.
So I think it is best that an idiot proof solution is adopted.
In the 757 case, the lock pin is a ground crew tool, so just a cylindrical dowel about 50 mm dia. x 600 length...no big deal to source...or store in tool lockers.
Much of it has to do with revised resident permit policies, it is much cheaper to shift there now, BUT the cost of living is too high, jobs are scarce in declining economies...the UK is really in bad economic shape.
However, that is not the point of this thread.
I remember getting hold of a job card from the Mahindra production line in Mumbai in 1981-82, EVERY single operation done at that supervisor's level had to be double checked, and signed by the worker, and the supervisor, for each vehicle.
Little wonder they are more reliable than the original Jeep, which they used to make under license.
With increased traffic, the planes here are worked upon at night between 11 PM and 5 AM (for domestic flights), so there may be pressure on the crews to be fast....so yes careless things will happen.
And if the crew member is new, and his supervisor on leave or whatever, you have a beginner who might cause an accident.
So I think it is best that an idiot proof solution is adopted.
In the 757 case, the lock pin is a ground crew tool, so just a cylindrical dowel about 50 mm dia. x 600 length...no big deal to source...or store in tool lockers.
That's a HORRENDOUS attitude.
Hire more maintenance crews, train them to do their job well.
Fire the management that forces the crews to cut corners.... better yet. hold them individually financially and criminally responsible.
In many respects, this is the most shocking video about the whole sorry Boeing 737 saga. Just watch this and listen to what this airline pilot is saying
That's worse than I thought. They just cobbled this thing together like a 1980s era GM parts bin car.
Without tooling a new aircraft, I don't see Boeing rebuilding their brand. Since they have military contracts, they will be kept afloat on the backs of the taxpayers.
The real damn shame is that Boeing merged with McDonnell-Douglas and now they're another "too big to fail" turd. I consider this fiasco a national disgrace.
Without tooling a new aircraft, I don't see Boeing rebuilding their brand. Since they have military contracts, they will be kept afloat on the backs of the taxpayers.
The real damn shame is that Boeing merged with McDonnell-Douglas and now they're another "too big to fail" turd. I consider this fiasco a national disgrace.
Yeah, the part about making sure you turn off the engine anti-ice feature within 5 minutes is down right scary.
jeff
jeff
I'd rather drive a Pinto, than fly Boeing.
They should be split into two divisions, and the commercial division sold off to Airbus.
They should be split into two divisions, and the commercial division sold off to Airbus.
Yes. It seems McDonnell-Douglas poisoned Boeing - not a wild claim given MD’s shockingly lax approach to safety. Remember this was the company that was told by the FAA in the 1980’s to sort their rear cargo door out that had resulted in two crashes that claimed hundreds of lives and they did sweet FA about it. Like Boeing now, their brand never really recovered. My wife and I took a flight on TAP from Johannesburg to London in 1992 with stops in the Congo, Sierra Leone and Lisbon and a similar route on the way back to save a few hundred bucks (what the hell were we thinking 🙈). Anyway, TAP flew MD’s (three engined thing) and I remember crapping myself the whole way there and back. The worst was the flappy wings and wobbling engines, and the noise was unbelievable
The last great plane Boeing did was the 777 in the early 1990’s. There’s only ever been one hull loss and that was at SF coming into land where the pilot came in too low. I once did a flight from Manila to Amsterdam (14 hours IIRC) on a pretty much empty 777 that was brand new. ANA also had a lot of them. Fantastic plane.
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