Hello there,
Just new in here..
I currently have a Douk Audio Dual-Tube Preamp which has a B9A base, where both the sockets are close to each other as shown in the Pic.
So my concerns are :-
1st of all is it even technically possible to roll the tubes to the 7193 ? If so then it should be 7193 tube for each channel i.e. a total of 2 tubes would be sufficient ? Or i will need dual for each channel so a quad setup ?
Regards.
~R
Just new in here..
I currently have a Douk Audio Dual-Tube Preamp which has a B9A base, where both the sockets are close to each other as shown in the Pic.
So my concerns are :-
1st of all is it even technically possible to roll the tubes to the 7193 ? If so then it should be 7193 tube for each channel i.e. a total of 2 tubes would be sufficient ? Or i will need dual for each channel so a quad setup ?
Regards.
~R
Don't use a 7193, use a CV1135 aka CV6. Much better sound, in fact my favourite IDHT. Be warned the top caps are the reverse way around from the 7193.
A pair should work for a simple preamp. You may need to alter the circuit - no idea of what the original is. Since the B9A sockets look to be on a PCB, good luck in putting octal sockets in there. You might need to cut holes in the PCB with a hole saw..... etc etc.... Gets complicated but could be worth it if you have building skills.
A pair should work for a simple preamp. You may need to alter the circuit - no idea of what the original is. Since the B9A sockets look to be on a PCB, good luck in putting octal sockets in there. You might need to cut holes in the PCB with a hole saw..... etc etc.... Gets complicated but could be worth it if you have building skills.
Hi andy..,
Appreciate your response.
Thanks for the information about the CV6. However it seems to be more expensive compared to the 7193. But still will add to my short list.
Now again coming back to our subject.., Yes the B9A sockets are on a separate PCB as seen below.
If its worth it then i can remove the B9A sockets alone from the PCB, and install the Octal ones ?
Or may be a B9A to Octal conversion adapter readily available ?
Please see the circuit above and comment if all this is worth it in the first place ?
Regards,
~R
Hmm... I was thinkin about the same as well. Thanks for saving some $$ for little to no gain. Yes I will think about a new Pre-amp or may be just try rolling a Cheap NOS 12AU7 tube for the sake of it. Do you have any suggestions regarding new vs NOS tubes on this current B9A socket ?
What is this douk thing? I see there are 5 dual opamps (through hole), and a plethora of other SMD ICs... what do the tubes do there?
Haha Good question. It's a Douk T8 Pro 7- band EQ with Tube (Buffer only) Pre-amp.
As per the manufacturer, few recommended tube rollings include 12AU7, 6SN7GT, ECC85 etc.. (comes with default 6H1N-BN tube).
Tbh, when A/B tested I am not getting any tube sound with this gear in the chain, even though it's one hell of an EQ as far it's concerned.
So was just thinking of rolling tubes to a different one and see if that can bring the tube sound or not.
I'm not clear about what you think is "tube sound"? Good tube stages don't have any particular sound. Some describe tubes as "warm" but that's not common to all tubes. It's more about what tubes don't have - they tend to be smoother and don't have any kind of edge or glare if the circuit is correct. 2nd harmonics come into it, but again different tubes vary.
@andyjevans,
Tbh, even I don't know whats that tube sound people talking about, hence wanted to try it and experience myself 😀
But I have auditioned once a Primaluna Amp and I was blown away by its performance especially the bass depth. Maybe since then this 'tube thing' started with me.
But in my current setup, this device actually narrows\veils the soundstage a bit compared to balance DAC-Amp direct output. This is only noticeable with well mastered tracks or good source.
Maybe I will try an NOS 12au7 or NS67 to see if that will make any difference ?
Tbh, even I don't know whats that tube sound people talking about, hence wanted to try it and experience myself 😀
But I have auditioned once a Primaluna Amp and I was blown away by its performance especially the bass depth. Maybe since then this 'tube thing' started with me.
But in my current setup, this device actually narrows\veils the soundstage a bit compared to balance DAC-Amp direct output. This is only noticeable with well mastered tracks or good source.
Maybe I will try an NOS 12au7 or NS67 to see if that will make any difference ?
When you consider insertion losses of various kinds the best stage is no stage. So "putting in" a valve stage doesn't really get you there.
What you have to do is substitute. Substitute a valve stage for a solid state one or whatever. Then you don't add unneeded amplification or cloud the sound.
What you have to do is substitute. Substitute a valve stage for a solid state one or whatever. Then you don't add unneeded amplification or cloud the sound.
Yes. You said it.
The main reason I bought this is to have an EQ in my system. The tubes with it was an added bonus (atleast it seems to be).
Guess I should go with full fledged tube amp or at least class D hybrids.
The main reason I bought this is to have an EQ in my system. The tubes with it was an added bonus (atleast it seems to be).
Guess I should go with full fledged tube amp or at least class D hybrids.
Hi Andy,
Back again
What's your opinion about 7N7 tubes compared to 7193/CV6 as this 7N7 also shares same voltage and also not required those external Anode/Cathode wirings ?
As previously discussed, your Douk box has 9 pin sockets and isn't truly designed as a hi-end preamp. I don't see any value in modifying it.
If you want a really good preamp then start again from scratch and use e.g. any 6SN7 type including 7N7 or 2x 6J5 types. OK as long as your amp has an input impedance of at least 50K but preferably 100K. I'd probably use a 6AH4 myself, and currently do. That works into 20K input impedance. I don't use 9 pin tubes, so no comment on those.
If you want a really good preamp then start again from scratch and use e.g. any 6SN7 type including 7N7 or 2x 6J5 types. OK as long as your amp has an input impedance of at least 50K but preferably 100K. I'd probably use a 6AH4 myself, and currently do. That works into 20K input impedance. I don't use 9 pin tubes, so no comment on those.
This is not a polemical question, but I’m curious about the reason for your statement that you don’t use 9-pin tubes. Do you feel that there is an inherent limitation in the noval-base design, that the tube quality tapered off after the era of octal (preamp) tubes, or some other material, geometrical (size?) or manufacturing reason? Or something else?
Hello Francois. I have used some 9 pin tubes in the past, like 6N1P, E180CC, E80CC for instance, but only out of necessity when I needed more gain. I wasn't particularly happy with any of them compared to octal tubes like 6SN7, CV1035 or 6AH4. And in any case out of choice I would use DHTs like 26, 47 or 10Y. Or even 2P29L. In the bigger output tubes 2a3, 300b etc are preferred by many to 6L6, EL34, or EL84 etc.
Do I think subjective sound quality of audio tubes tapered off with the transition from DHTs to (a) octal tubes and (b) 9 pin tubes, then generally yes. In any case a large quantity of the 9 pin tubes were never made for audio - they were used in televisions, computers etc. Is it a question of geometrical size? Maybe - tubes with larger anode structures can in some cases sound better. But there are so many exceptions to all these statements. I can only venture broad generalisations.
Maybe other members here would care to comment?
Do I think subjective sound quality of audio tubes tapered off with the transition from DHTs to (a) octal tubes and (b) 9 pin tubes, then generally yes. In any case a large quantity of the 9 pin tubes were never made for audio - they were used in televisions, computers etc. Is it a question of geometrical size? Maybe - tubes with larger anode structures can in some cases sound better. But there are so many exceptions to all these statements. I can only venture broad generalisations.
Maybe other members here would care to comment?
<< 2x 7193 instead of 1x 6sn7 is much better. The 7193 is an outstanding tube>>
I used to think so, but if you're going for 2 top caps the CV1135 aka CV6 annihilates it soundwise. It's not subtle. It's the best of the whole family.
Note that the top caps are the reverse way around from the 7193.
I used to think so, but if you're going for 2 top caps the CV1135 aka CV6 annihilates it soundwise. It's not subtle. It's the best of the whole family.
Note that the top caps are the reverse way around from the 7193.
Your right, the topcaps are also not so nice to look at. I prefer the looks of an 6SN7 or its brother the 12SX7. Sound wise the 7193 is just a little better. I've got all 3 of them. It also depends where you use it and at what voltage. In the future want to build an Aikido with 7193's. You need 8 of them instead of 4 6SN7's. The price's are getting higher and higher. 10 years ago I bought 20 pieces for €5,- each. Nowadays it's 4 or 5 times higher, and only in small numbers. Mine are from 1944, made just before D-day. I like the idea of having tubes that were alsi used in WW2. But that is a romantic idea, but doesn't say anything about the sound. Good luck with your quest.
By the way, have you thought about the 6N6P ? Also a very good tube. This one needs 6V3 instead of 12V6. You can put them in series on 12V6.
By the way, have you thought about the 6N6P ? Also a very good tube. This one needs 6V3 instead of 12V6. You can put them in series on 12V6.
Anyone tried the 6F8G? Octal but only 1 cap. I modified my Schiit Freya to use them in the input positions,
Adapters are readily available. I managed to stock up on these and the military VT-99. I like to think it's the cylindrical
plate as opposed to the flat in the 6SN7's. Probably expectation bias or something but I like the sound.
Just a thought.....carry on. Btw Andy, I enjoy your valve exploits very much and read all of them.
I tend to trust actual musicians when it comes to sound reproduction on any sort. 👍
Adapters are readily available. I managed to stock up on these and the military VT-99. I like to think it's the cylindrical
plate as opposed to the flat in the 6SN7's. Probably expectation bias or something but I like the sound.
Just a thought.....carry on. Btw Andy, I enjoy your valve exploits very much and read all of them.
I tend to trust actual musicians when it comes to sound reproduction on any sort. 👍