Answer! You won't get a unique answer. It's all pointless from a real perspective. I told you are confused because you have little idea about how it works.
Then the thread could have been closed a long time ago! Unfortunately has very little to do with real world....
Do you know the difference between HiFi and live music? I am serious. Do you use a guitar amp for music playback, usually? It is the perspective that matters. You need to know what guitar you want to use before buying an amplifier or the contrary. Not every combination works...
IPSE DIXIT!
How WHAT works? Frequency response? Power tubes? Maybe I would have some idea how 'it' works if you would explain what 'it' actually is.
So... you don't know what 'frequency response' means, then?
Yes, but that has nothing to do with this thread. You said the guitar could influence, i.e. control the frequency response of the amp, which is clearly wrong.
(Your words: "the frequency response of a typical guitar amplifier is TOTALLY dominated by the guitar")
The 'frequency response' of the amp is its amplitude response, irrespective of what is plugged into it. The guitar is another part of a larger system which we're not discussing in this thread.
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I think it is quite clear. Then you can decide if you are not good enough to understand or just taking the ****!!! In former case it's like washing the donkey's head, it doesn't have any effect.
Yes, it is wrong in your biased limited mind.
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Oh my God! That's arrogance especially because you are not a musician! It's not you deciding what is relevant. As always someone will find it useful and someone not.
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It is not clear what you are talking about, that is why I asked you. Since you refuse to tell me, I must conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.
How does that guitar dominate the frequency response of an amplifier when it is not plugged into it? I would love to know. Magic? Telephathy?
It is obvious to everyone what is relevant. You were confusing the OP with falsehoods and unrelated material. I decided to correct you, to avoid others being misled also.
Incidentally, I do play electric guitar.
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No, I refuse because I really dislike your attitude. It's different. If you can't understand it's not my problem. You can also ignore it and stick to your beliefs...Think what you like, I don't care.
In the meantime I have shown you how one of my 10" cones behaves with or without feedback. You have posted nothing. All you said is hot air....
Then here again is your arrogance. Falseholds and unrelated material? I really doubt you play a guitar well enough to be called musician! Then you are basically supposing that the OP is stupid. Congratulations!
Think for yourself for once. Don't suppose what others can understand or not understand.
Then you can measure your amp in all the possible ways I have described and get answers. If you had answers (i.e. measurements) you wouldn't be asking me and would show them. Why don't you do it? I can wait...
I'm not a professional musician, if that's what you mean. I'm a professional engineer. But what does that have to do with the present discussion? Being a professional engineer makes me better qualified to comment on technical phenomena than being a musician. Musician are artists, not engineers; they usually don't understand the physics of the equipment they use.
Answers to what? Measurements of what? What are you trying to explain? I'm genuinely trying to help you overcome the language barrier, but you're not making it easy.
Yes, but you didn't say why you showed it. What point were you trying to make?
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Really? But you need to know how a guitar amp works and cannot mix technical things with musical definitions if you want to give a purely technical advice. See below....
Musicians don't need to understand physics. They just play and listen. That's the way to make music....
It's you having a problem with the language. You cannot define brighter if you don't listen to it and if you listen then you need a speaker. As you mentioned Fender amps, these are possibly among the (if not THE) brightest amps in the world regardless of the power tubes they use, EL84 or 6L6. All sorts of tone controls and their speakers make them that way not the type of power tube.
To show you, for example, that your funny idea about the brighter sound of pentodes a priori is total nonsense. Just considering a "non-distorting" output stage, it's the frequency response of the speaker that changes a lot with and without feedback in the AUDIO range.
I Don't Care.. I'm gonna call ******** on most of that... just about Every Tube Type/Different Manufacture like that, I can Tell the Damn Difference be it Clean or Clipping/Distortion.
An EL34 any of them.. sounds Nothing like actual Good 6l6s Phillips/Sylvania's etc....Beam Types sound like Beam Types...and You Guessed it Pentode's Sound like Pentode's....
And I Don't Care how Technical you want to get I know what I'm hearing. And every Manufacture Also sounds different damn near....Not My fault others can't hear/Listen for and Recognize the differences... but to Blatantly say there is no difference/they all sound identical is ignorance...
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So, can someone post plots of frequency responses of, say, 10K and 100K resistors? I know sound changes when you insert them to a RC filter circuit....
That means resistors must have a frequency response, right? Perhaps not.
After all, we are pretty much talking about something similar here. We can't have active tube circuits working without those tubes, yet tubes alone, without a circuit, do nothing. In the end, sound is always a result of the entire circuit.
But now that OP specifically wanted to limit discussion to tubes alone, even more, tubes amplifying clean, I think all has been said in pretty much the first pages of this thread. As is, tubes don't have a frequency response any more than plain resistors do. A circuit might and will have one, not too surprisingly it might be even largely dictated by certain properties of said tubes (or resistors) but then it's a different topic of discussion.
That means resistors must have a frequency response, right? Perhaps not.
After all, we are pretty much talking about something similar here. We can't have active tube circuits working without those tubes, yet tubes alone, without a circuit, do nothing. In the end, sound is always a result of the entire circuit.
But now that OP specifically wanted to limit discussion to tubes alone, even more, tubes amplifying clean, I think all has been said in pretty much the first pages of this thread. As is, tubes don't have a frequency response any more than plain resistors do. A circuit might and will have one, not too surprisingly it might be even largely dictated by certain properties of said tubes (or resistors) but then it's a different topic of discussion.
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Yes you can... all you need is a frequency response graph that rises or is more extended in the higher frequencies (relative to another graph)...
But nobody asked about the frequency response of speakers. You could have an amp with an enormous treble boost, then partner it with a speaker with a massive treble cut, and end up with a system with a flat frequency response. What does that prove? This thread is about power tubes and their associated circuitry, not the overall system. Not the musician, not his guitar, not the speaker, not the room he's playing in....
If it makes it easier, you can assume everyone is talking about the same musician, always with the same guitar and the same speaker, in the same room. Only the power tubes are being changed. Does that help you?
No you can't! It's nothing to do with graphs. Besides wit was not about tone controls!!!
What does this mean????
I have never seen or heard such a thing in guitar world. There is no standard frequency response. Period. It's pointelss....
Oh my GOD!!!! That question has already ANSWERED!!!!!! The thread has moved on but you don't get it. You are stuck with your language problems....
You need help. Go and see a doctor.
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This is a very interesting topic.
From my own observations, listening, etc and from the books
I've read, from the books I have and playing through amps
with various tubes.
...they are all different by varying degrees.
HOWEVER
Musicians do more than just play.
A rare musician is one who listens.
An even rarer musician is one who conveys
the message or feeling in his/her soul through
the instrument.
IF IT WERE THAT EASY
Everyone would be A. Segovia
I. Perlman, M. Davis, V. Horowitz,
D. Allman, V Cliburn. G. Krupa....
From my own observations, listening, etc and from the books
I've read, from the books I have and playing through amps
with various tubes.
...they are all different by varying degrees.
HOWEVER
Musicians do more than just play.
A rare musician is one who listens.
An even rarer musician is one who conveys
the message or feeling in his/her soul through
the instrument.
IF IT WERE THAT EASY
Everyone would be A. Segovia
I. Perlman, M. Davis, V. Horowitz,
D. Allman, V Cliburn. G. Krupa....
I understand that when a musician says "brighter" he may mean 'more HF' or 'more HF distortion, but not too much more'. Some musicians may be able to distinguish between these two quite different situations; some may not; I suppose a few may even deny there is a difference or get agitated when an engineer insists they are different.
When an engineer says "brighter" he almost always means 'more HF'.
It is conceivable that there are some musicians who don't realise that tone controls work by varying the frequency response of an amplifier or preamp; they may imagine that a knob can vary 'tone'.
When an engineer says "brighter" he almost always means 'more HF'.
It is conceivable that there are some musicians who don't realise that tone controls work by varying the frequency response of an amplifier or preamp; they may imagine that a knob can vary 'tone'.
That's because of how filters work.. They call them RC filters for a reason 🙂
2πf | Online High-/Low pass filter calculator
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