Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
A good thread that discusses theory of the tapped horns, give it a good read and it will define how to select subwoofers for a successful build. For the bonus, it also explains how to use horn response, what the inputs mean and how to manipulate the program to get what you want.
I thought your budget was $200 for the subwoofers? 😕
A good thread that discusses theory of the tapped horns, give it a good read and it will define how to select subwoofers for a successful build. For the bonus, it also explains how to use horn response, what the inputs mean and how to manipulate the program to get what you want.
I thought your budget was $200 for the subwoofers? 😕
As the guy that started that thread, I have a pretty good idea of what's in it, and I know it will get you started if you care to make the effort to read and understand it. There is a LOT of great information in that thread - most of it was not from me.
We all started from scratch too. The best thing I picked up at Fitzmaurice's site was a little comment about this modeling software called Hornresp about four years ago. As I struggled with it, some people took a little pity on me and helped me along, but I learned most of it by designing and building something, then measuring what I had created and figuring out where it all went wrong.
@60ndown
I'll gladly show you my maps, share the trails I've explored, and recommend a path for you to take, but there is not enough time in my day for me to climb your mountain for you.
I also have heard plenty of Labs. I disagree with much of the common knowledge. They don't work in singles, you need 4, etc. Who cares about flat response? Any real room situation will likely require eq anyway. I also disagree that there is some huge transformation in blocks of 4. This is how I understand it, the response flattens out due to the system efficiency reaching a ceiling at the top end well before the lower frequencies. The real acoustic corner doesn't actually get any lower. IOW the point where the horn ceases to load the drivers well. An outdoor 5 or 10m test with known voltage drive into 1,2 and 4 cabs would show this. If you have a horn response file of a Labsub you can see what a single will do compared to other cabs as singles. It will operate like any other sub as a single.
Sorry way off topic here. I just happen to disagree somewhat with this commonly held opinion of Labsubs.
A small speaker box is virtually omnidirectional below 100 Hz.
The quad array decreases dispersion at upper frequencies, by causing cancellation off axis. The relatively narrow Karlson exit combined with that effect probably makes for a wider dispersion than a quad array normally would have.
The speaker seems to have little output below 80 Hz, so contribution of the port whether open or closed won't be very obvious with music, especially old Steely Dan, which had little content down there to start with.
hmm?
im sure the fat string on a bass guitar is 41hz?
and im sure Steely dan had a fat string on their bass guitar?
no obvious 'drop out' in the low end so im guessing it gets down to at least 41 hz.
and would wager lower.....
im sure the fat string on a bass guitar is 41hz?
and im sure Steely dan had a fat string on their bass guitar?
no obvious 'drop out' in the low end so im guessing it gets down to at least 41 hz.
and would wager lower.....
The video's audio analyses for what it is worth, taken from the last 27sec without the last 2 seconds (to much noise from touching/bumping the mic/cam).
Orange line = total from the 27 seconds
Yellow line = last momentum
Orange line = total from the 27 seconds
Yellow line = last momentum
yea...
im pretty sure its the video cameras questionable mic that records no lower then 64hz.
the 'Kuad Kuoppler' does
on the other hand, the video cams mike looks pretty nice and flat from 64 up 🙂
(wow, i spelt mic/mike differently in the same post !! ?? )
im pretty sure its the video cameras questionable mic that records no lower then 64hz.
the 'Kuad Kuoppler' does
on the other hand, the video cams mike looks pretty nice and flat from 64 up 🙂
(wow, i spelt mic/mike differently in the same post !! ?? )
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You like to guess about things, don't you 🙂?
The low E on a bass is around 40 Hz, true.
A Fender bass recorded direct will have the fundamental tone 10 to 20 dB down from the harmonics, depending on strings, pickup position, and EQ. Your ear fills in the fundamental from the harmonics.
One of the most popular stage bass cabinets ever made, still unchanged and in production since the 1970's, the Ampeg SVT 8x10", rolls off at about 12 dB per octave from about 80 Hz. Combine that with the falling response of a the pickup and there is often very little "bass" in the bass.
You can hear "bass" from 2 inch speakers, but you are hearing harmonics, unless those 2 inch speakers are in headphones.
If you want to tell what your speaker is actually doing down low, try some sine wave tones (you can download them for free) and a dB meter. If you don't have a dB meter, (or the $40 to buy one) look at a VU meter on your mixer or recorder or whatever.
Do it at low level to start, high levels will result in extra harmonics. It is easy to push cheap speakers to 100% distortion, that is a 40 Hz tone will result in an 80 Hz (and 120, and 160) tone of equal level.
When you train your ear, you can hear the harmonics separately, but they are easy to see on a real time analyzer.
While you are at it, you can check out the Fb of your box, the cones will move the least at Fb.
I suspect you will find that the Fb is above 60 Hz.
If 40 Hz is not 20 dB or more down from 160 Hz on those speakers, I'll pay you double what you paid for them😉.
Have fun, good luck.
Art
Even if your mic doesn't record significant signals below 64Hz why do we see a steep roll off from 81Hz?
If your mic isn't able to pic up LF content why do I see it as soon you bumb the mic?
So you can see from a music signal and this setup how flat the signal is? The only conclusion I can draw is a 15dB difference between the low and the rest, for what's worth.
i play drums, i have for 30 years, ive spent 100s, maybe 1000s of hours playing music with other people.
i was messing around with some guys last night,
we recorded this,
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
on this
JR.com: Tascam DR-05 Portable Handheld Recorder in Portable Digital Recorders
i feel like i have a reasonable understanding of what things 'should' sound like
i was messing around with some guys last night,
we recorded this,
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
on this
JR.com: Tascam DR-05 Portable Handheld Recorder in Portable Digital Recorders
i feel like i have a reasonable understanding of what things 'should' sound like
The video's audio analyses for what it is worth, taken from the last 27sec without the last 2 seconds (to much noise from touching/bumping the mic/cam).
Orange line = total from the 27 seconds
Yellow line = last momentum
Just listening to it I thought it was a 80 Hz rolloff as I posted in #2.
I'll have to start listening more closely, off by 1 Hz 😉.
Art
It was that statement why I had to check it.... but wholly macaroni 😱, not that close!
Originally I was going to be polite and say 60 Hz rolloff, but then I recalled what a recent 2x6" with tweeter cabinet I built sounded like, it has a similar bass roll off.
It is funny how the ear works, that 2x6" sounds good "full range", especially on older material mixed for vinyl that has little low bass, but put a sub below it with Bjork or Radiohead and you then know what you are missing.
Speaking of missing, does it seem to you the OP missed post #6 ?
Oh, forgot he's been drumming for 30 years and has learned all there is to know about bass ;^).
Art
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Not surprised K12 sized cabinet measures to roll off around 80.
My K15 measures like it rolls around 60, even overstuffed with SigmaPro18A2.
Don't get me wrong, there is still plenty plenty plenty of subjective lo end.
Is it merely harmonics or a superior hit on single event transients?
I play Bass guitar, in Drop D, using K15 cabinet. No complaints, except that
Sigma18 is a terrible pain to squeeze inside. DeltaPro15 woulda been fine.
If I build a bigger one, it will have neodymium 4x10's.
My K15 measures like it rolls around 60, even overstuffed with SigmaPro18A2.
Don't get me wrong, there is still plenty plenty plenty of subjective lo end.
Is it merely harmonics or a superior hit on single event transients?
I play Bass guitar, in Drop D, using K15 cabinet. No complaints, except that
Sigma18 is a terrible pain to squeeze inside. DeltaPro15 woulda been fine.
If I build a bigger one, it will have neodymium 4x10's.
Sure, Karlson will "do" 40. Just not with the same efficiency as midbass.
I didn't see any problem with mine bottoming out on Drop D at 300W...
Not sure how low you have to go before it unloads completely...
I don't think it drops off a cliff like a Tapped horn or anything.
Loaded with 18, never appeared wanting for a subsonic filter...
Lots of sound, and cone motion always well controlled.
Scary motionless sometimes...
DeltaPro12 used to be in that cab. Could exceed linear XMAX for sure,
but still not bottom. Same situation: 300W (Fender BXR) Drop D.
Even then, cone motion was extremely tight most of the time.
I think shoehorning 18 into mine was not optimal, and should have
just used a proper 15 like it was designed for... 18 has less of that
killer Karlson kickdrum "hit" than the 12 did...
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