...You mentioned exactly the drivers I want to build after this project. Fostexes are pricey
Height is ok, overall volume is at premium, and they have to be front loaded.
FWIW, IME and proved to my satisfaction when 'proofing' MJK's MathCad design programs against some of my own Tower/Column alignments from 'way back when', the vented TL [closed pipe] alignment [aka MLTL] range from ~0.312 - 0.624 Qts' seems technically good enough, i.e. from Keele's 6th order assisted bass reflex to his Extended Bass Shelf [EBS] alignment.
While the 'sweet spot' [mean] is a ~0.4412 Qts', a 'close enough' simple guideline is:
~0.403, Vb = Vas, Fb = Fs [MLTL]
< ~0.403, Vb = < Vas, Fb = > Fs [inverse tapered MLTQWT]
> ~0.403, Vb = > Vas, Fb = < Fs [expanding taper MLTQWT/MLhorn]
Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance [Rs]: HiFi Loudspeaker Design
GM
Thanks for recomendation, by the measurements it looks like a solid speaker, but this is exactly what I do not want to build: 2 way, 3 drivers, simple bassreflex(?)... Kit is nice, but with the postage to EU + taxes price will be eye-watering
You don't need to buy the kit, you can just source the drivers and the crossover and cabinet design are on Curt's page. We can help you with the crossover layout if need be.
Cheers,
Greg
There. Is. No. Crossover.
Repeat it until it gets in.
Two sets of cables from the binding post. One set to the oval woofer. One set to the tweeter. On the + cable, you just put a 3.3uF capacitor going to the tweeter.
If you don't want to solder, just use cable connectors.
Any sealed back tweeter at about 85dB will be fine.
A bit of clarification please: I have to look for speaker driver closer to 0.403 or 0.4412 for pure MLTL? does 0.04 difference matter much?
If I have a full ranger driver which is Qts ~0.7, there is not much chance, that it will play well in MLTL? What shortcomings speaker will have?
MLTL - TABAQ, WIBAQ and similar? Pensils too?
MLTQWT - Cyburgs Needles?
MLTQWT/MLhorn -...????
p.s. I have googled what you wrote. It kinda not much info about it, except your other posts. Pardon me, if I look lazy.
Thank you, I am still at least couple projects away from building complex speakers. It is doable, but I... don't want yet
Pricey, but thank you. Also, I prefer paper cones a tiny bit more.
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Note that GM was simply stating optimal ranges for the different configurations; that doesn't mean you can't use others, just that those are the ones that naturally suit those load categories.
In most modern parlance, yes. GM and I (and Dave) tend to prefer ML-horn, or ML-Voigt to describe them.
See above. And an inverse TQWT is a pipe that contracts toward the terminus.
Yes
In most modern parlance, yes. GM and I (and Dave) tend to prefer ML-horn, or ML-Voigt to describe them.
See above. And an inverse TQWT is a pipe that contracts toward the terminus.
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I have built MLTL speakers with 0.72Qts driver, and I like the sound of it, especially very tight bass in the sub 100Hz. The rubbery bass is why I hate simple bass reflex boxes and this was like revelation to me.
I will ask in other words: if I exchange driver from one of 0.72 Qts to ~0.45 Qts, what will change?
Those drivers are the examples, which comes to my head
3FE22-8 - Qts 0.47
3FE25-8 - Qts 0.7
I have used another driver, but those ones are the same dimensions and you can switch between in the same box without woodworking. Also, I have only 3FE25-8 (without the cabinet for it), so cannot compare with my "golden" ears...
I have already built 2 TABAQ pairs (MLTL which are very similar in dimensions) and now I am hooked... Now almost any simple bass reflex commercial speakers up to 500EUR with that rubbery bass sound flawed to me.
Your advice is needed for another build. I feel ready for bigger and a bit more expensive, requirements to make it more narrow suggestion:
- Finished speaker has to go a bit deeper than TABAQ, lets say that 10Hz lower is ok, especially some more bass in 40-50Hz range.
- Decent quality of treble at 10-14kHz. I really understand, that full-ranger will not be as crisp as dedicated tweeter, but midwoofers acting as full-ranges is not to my liking. I am deaf above 13.5kHz, so the very upper part does not matter.
- 4-6 inch full-range speaker. 3 inch and smaller excluded. Preferably with as little correction filters or equalization required, but this is not deal-breaker. Price per one driver up to 80 USD/EUR, if there is smth head and shoulder above everything else - can be 100USD/EUR per unit. It should be available in Europe. Probably I am still not ready for MarkAudio, so exclude them for now...
- Speaker type - MLTL or other similar quarterwave type designs. The sound of them really impressed me, also space is limited. The only exception could be compact front firing horn if it has any advantages to MLTL.
With all above, what you, dear DIY colleagues would suggest me? Is it WIBAQ sized speaker with some cool but cheap driver I want to build?
I am not afraid of Hornresp anymore, so will simulate anything you will suggest me
All suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Are you ruling out Mark Audio drivers on the grounds of cost? The Pluvia 7.2HD are available from a UK supplier for £108 a pair including VAT but not including delivery.
...Good question. Ruling out because want to leave Mark Audio for desert:
-Have no proper amp yet, want to leave better drivers for the time when I got one.
-There are situations, when speakers are overloaded, like someone turns the volume knob way too much for brief period of time. There is a chance that MA drivers will not be even properly broken in.
-Big dog is in da house, a little touch to driver membrane with her nose and it is bent, so still preferring mostly folded versions, which reside a bit higher. It seems, that MA are not the most durable.
And the biggest reason: if I choose MA for 3rd project, then I will not look back, so the next level drivers for 4th and further projects will have to be smth which costs a fortune. I am not ready for this.
90% that I will choose smth simpler.
Actually since this is DIY audio. What we are generally after is performance, time spent building cabinets are costs too. If you checked some of the speakers we mentioned here like SB acoustics are actually even more expensive than the markaudio. SB acoustics is actually a very premium brand. Markaudio would only be a little bit more than tangband.
If you like the Faitalpro 3Fe22/25, you could go one size bigger and go for the 4FE version. I have them and they are very good too.
Essentially the key to getting good and deep bass is actually the free air resonance of the speaker, Fs. The driver response drops of rapidly below that.
Most 4" fullrange would have that about circa 90Hz. One possibility is the 12PAC from Sbacoustics. It is one of their cheapest drivers but the Fs is about 55Hz. I am using this as a full range at the moment and the sound is not bad at all...
Oon
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Hi Scott,
No doubt the SB acoustics are designed as midwoofer but take 15NAC for example, they are 5db more sensitive at 20kHz than they are at 1kHz on axis. At 30 degree off axis they are pretty much flat...
They also have a sloping downward frequency response at about 2kHz. Which essentially means that if you use a really narrow baffle, suddenly you don't need any baffle step correction.
So strangely as it seems, it works as a full range.
I have heard it used as a full range. The sound is actually quite pleasant after full break in, although it is a bit beamy.
Oon
No, audibly no difference. The attached chart shows how much Qt' has to change to be obvious and even then the room can make even a severely over-damped alignment [< 0.5, 'dry'/'lean'] sound 'boomy' or a severely under-damped [> 1.0] one 'dry'/'lean' or even ~disappear if located in a three way intersecting room null.
I guess you have to define 'well' since the main difference between the pipe's taper Vs a driver's Qt' boils down to how much stuffing is required to smooth it out, i.e. how acoustically efficient is it and how much transient 'attack' is being soft clipped to get a desirable 'decay' [Qt']?
For the most part not a big deal nowadays, what with much higher power handling capability and multi material composite diaphragms that can be configured in myriad ways with a high degree of manufacturing accuracy, but was very important back in my youth when high performance driver design was more art than CAE materials/manufacturing design and ~ 1 W consumer radio and 30 W to drive a small cinema was the norm.
Anyway, As Dave, Scott noted, it's all interchangeable and I/we've maybe made up too many acronyms without a formal dictionary to describe all the different types we've done since at its core, there's only three TLs: Resonances of open air columns
All that said, I'll always recommend the most acoustically efficient alignment that meets the needs of the app as I understand it and now we've exposed all within the 'sound of our voices' to sufficient knowledge to choose one's own taper type.
GM
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Yep, I really like Faitalpro 3Fe25 but, the only way I listened to them are naked driver put on the table. It is a bit hard to believe it has so small declared xmax, as the punch and visual movement of membrane looks pretty big, magnet is heavy and enormous. There is build thread of MLTL with 3fe22, but the enclosure seems to be even smaller than Tabaq and tuned to much higher frequency, which is the opposite I want. If there is the same shallow bass in 4fe versions - it will be disappointment.
Thanks for TB/MarkAudio/SBA comparison. I will have this in mind. TB is very pricey and pretty rare in EU, especially considering postage. I am not sure if I remember right, but they are getting much pricier during the years. MA, Faitals, SBA are videly available, there are local resellers.
12PAC looks like aluminum cone, I try to avoid them for now, also preferring not to use midwoofer as fullranger. TY.
Narrow baffles is what I prefer. Ty for suggestion.
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You seem to be running out of options because of these limitations. MA or not - get a proper amp. The better the amp the better the speakers sound.
Consider this:
Pluvia 7 in half-tower MLTL build
And cover the driver with a grill.
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