3way XO help greatly appreciated!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jump to Latest
#661
grantnsw said:
Forgot to mention this (I'm probably repeating the obvious), that many? high end tweeters don't use ferrofluid at all, somehow they keep Z at Fs low....but how? I need to read more! lol
Click to expand...

From what I know they bring their Fs down so that they don't need any damping. That's why they are more expensive. The same with woofers. But, I am always affraid when 'you' use Series Notch Filters with tweeters for each out-of-the-form peak. It's best to play with the xover frequency and choose a good tweeter. It's really a bad designed xover if you go'nd use it with horns. Many times the attenuation you get from lpads is just enough over the spectrum.
 
#662
Hi,
Re: the Jamo R909, or a clone. Is it possible for DIY? There's another thread here about dipoles and 15" Eminence drivers. But what are the considerations? Off-axis response? Dipoles to me are a mystery! Can anyone clue-up a beginner please? grant
 
#665
I am trying to post pictures here but its real slow..............At any rate, Thank you Tinitus for the cheers................Frankies' sound is awesome................Bass is tight and well defined, especially with the kick drum.................Bass guitar is very detailed and still maintains its' punch and notes are distinct, even when the music shifts into the upper midrange.................The CA15RLY performs voice amazingly better than I had hoped for and piano is very resounding................The TDFC greatly augments all the range from bass on up.................The entire frequency range of Frankie is performed in an Extremely transient manner, it brings goosebumps down my spine, it is so quick.................No sibilence at all.......When a high hat is hit, then stops, it stops "right now". The amount of detail throughout an entire passage with the different instruments playing together is something I have never heard in my earlier projects...................Frankie gets it, man..........it's amazing......................On violins, you can almost hear the individual bow strings caressing the catgut, kinda like hearing a vocalist breathing or the fingers rubbing on guitar strings..................These little nuances are what I have a deep appreciation for......................No nasal sound..........Very open sounding and imaging is good..................Imaging can get better, I think, when I more carefully place Frankie in the room more accurately................I did not take the time to do this yet, but will do so shortly......................Overall balance from the woofer to the tweeter, I think, is good.................All play without drowning each other out during both Highs and Lows of a passage...........However.....................I would like to bring the cymbal tapping sound of the tweeter up a little bit and make it sound a little more pronounced, help elevate it "above" a smidgeon..................I want to do this WITHOUT making the rest of the spectrum becoming too "tinny" sounding...........Tinitus..............Any Ideas?................I listened to Frankie for 3 hours of his inaugural gig late last nite, so I have got a lot more to experience with a few minor tweaks, I think...........Overall, without measuring equipment of any kind, I have to say that the FRD Tool method of designing and building speakers is excellent, and though a lot of leaps of faith are required, It definately is well worth investigating for anyone who desires to design a system........................Sreten, man, you put me on that path, and I wish to express to you my fondest gratitude.................Tinitus, your artistic heart, and sincere interest in Frankie is truly a gift I will cherish, as you have exemplified EXACTLY what I believe to be the essence of speaker building................Grant..............Your Curiosity and support in research and developement and desire to do the right things has ABSOLUTELY proven the value of tenacity.............and friendship.......... It's weird, because you started this thread, and my hope for you is that you realize your speaker design is definately viable and doable.......................I have a lot of people to thank, but mainly you guys have been my "ROCK" and I am grateful to you all.....................I am gonna try to post some pics here shortly after I post here, so let's keep in touch..................Omni
 
#667
Fantastic ... and thank you fore your kind words ... and fore letting me be a (small) part of this adventure

But you want to have a more liquid treble, if I understand you correctly

At this point I dont know your xo exactly .... do you have a small RC on tweeter ?????

Also tweeter attenuation can be a delicate thing ... may need fine adjustment

But remember ... its all still very fresh

Maybe its just perfect as it is, and what you miss just isnt there at all :clown:
 
#668
lets try again
 

Attachments

  • cutt1.jpg
    cutt1.jpg
    7 KB · Views: 132
#671
Tinitus, You may be thinking right along the same lines as I am.........On the tweeter I have a series resistor of 1.2 ohms..........The shunt coil is .47mH with a 1.2 ohm resistor attached to it...............Sound still is SWEET, and somewhere I heard that speakers take several hours to break in.........I am not sure about this................I mean man, I really dig Frankies sound, and I will take some time to enjoy what is accomplished so for.........Maybe in a week or 2 I can lower series resistor to 1 ohm.........I,m gonna take my time on this........I don't want to spoil an already good thing.................Omni
 
#672
Omni,
Fantastic.. Congratulations! You seem to have a superb result and all your work has paid off. And of course you chose some excellent drivers! Transient 'snap' etc. I hear you about the treble, that a minor change might be needed, but maybe only after 30? hours break-in. I think turn it up for perhaps a week and take detailed notes of any changes in sound ...as one does, lol. Then possibly tweak xo? Just an idea. Your cabinets look fantastic, great work there too. Cheers , I'm so pleased for you!

Inductor,
I'm sorry I missed your post till now. Thank you very much for your comments, grant
 
#673
Grant...........Thank you very much for your support, man, I think you are on the same wavelength here.............Play Frankie for a while......observe changes............then maybe tweak.....The only area I may need to tweak in resistors will be the tweet..............I bought extra resistors and at differing values, so I've got the goods....... HOWEVER...........If you have ever seen Tony Gees' Humble Homemade HiFi website, you may have read about his capacitor comparisons..............Check out his discussion of the VISHAY-ROEDERSTEIN mkp1837 capacitor............He raves about it........He talks of its' fantastic sound enhancing properties as a bypass, especially in the tweeter section, and what a huge difference it makes, sweetening the sound.................A while back, I did some exhaustive research to get ahold of these, and as luck would have it, I was able to get 4 of them..........I have not installed them on Frankie yet, because I wanted to hear Frankie with the original set up.................He does sound sweet, and I now have heard, I think, what a flat { or close to flat } speaker response sounds like.........Hopefully I described it aptly in my original post.............Although words are difficult to describe...........You need to get on a plane immediately to Rossford, U.S.A........................lol...............At any rate, what I am gonna do here, is listen to Frankie for a few weeks, observe any changes, then install the VISHAY caps.............Reports are they make a HUGE, SWEET audible difference................Then listen for a few more weeks, then if needed, replace my 1.2 ohm resistor with a 1 ohm....................Tinitus appears to understand the newness of the design and build, and echoed my sentiments..............That's cool.................Lets keep in touch............so much to talk about..................Omni
 
#674
Omni,
Wow! This is great, I would certainly be on a plane to say g'day and listen to Frankie if I could!
Just for interest my old Vifa's (even the D75 dome mid..well to a point!) sounded better the longer and louder I played them until the old Class A (kilowatt consumption) amp 'smoked-out'. Your cone materials may be different, so it might not apply to your Alu SLS woofers?. The CA15 might improve though...

Tony G certainly gives the Vishay shunt cap a great 'rap' - I bet they cost you a bit! Where did you buy them from?
I've read a few threads about 'capacitor sound' and imho (lol, what would I know haha) foils are best but on my budget, anything thats not bipolar electrolytic (but necessary for woofer) shunted with something like your Vishay's or the 'LCR' brand might do too! I think your strategy is very wise although I guess your just 'itchin' to replace the caps right now!

Maybe we could (just for fun) both buy the same (say) Chesky sampler/test CD and for a laugh try to describe the sound?
This could be very entertaining if not, in the least hilarious! I've borrowed a mates Jamo's temporarily while he's oversees. grant

Hi Tinitus and Inductor
 
#675
#676
Tinitus, I forgot to put the bolts on the top side similar to the ones Frankenstein has on his neck............lol...........Thank you for the handsome comment.....Actually the pictures don't do him justice.....They were taken with a cheap digital camera.....Actually he has some pretty interesting texture and colorations on him that these pictures didn't show.......Maybe I try some other ideas to post better photos...............Thank you for the "heads up " on further refinement components............Right now the consensus is, and I am gonna follow it is: Listen and enjoy for a while then see IF any changes are needed...................I will be in touch............Omni
 
#677
Tinitus,
I've been reading your posts in the "midranges" thread and I notice your comments on the Tangband W4-1337SA mid/woofer/full-range! If... 'suitably controlled' I wonder how this would compare sonically with the Seas MCA15RCY? Just for curiosity sake! Zaph gives the 4-1337SA a great review. Sorry to 'cross-post' , my question is ok here? thanks

Omni.....(..in aural-nirvana! hehe! ..and good on you!) Any developments and how is the treble sounding now?
I'm still thinking about (mixed) series crossovers...but I don't have much of a clue as yet. Trying to play with Sreten's design for me and also Andy Graddons at:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gradds55/SeriesXO/series_cross-overs8b.htm ...grant
 
#678
Grant, its ok, lets just take it here ... but I am not sure what it is you are asking ... how the TB will compare to the Seas ?

As I dont know either of them its difficult for me to say
But I think the TB is very interesting with its underhung coil ... and allthough with titan it seems very well behaved with a possible big passband ... I guess its a very clean sounding driver with good detailed sonics, but it dont take too much power, so lower xo point should not be too low

It may blend very well with any good tweeter, and perfect fore the shallow series xo you are looking at, but it may be more tricky to get the bass right
 
#679
Tinitus, Yes I was wondering how the TB would compare to the MCA15.
Thanks for your comments on the TB W4-1337sa, especially your note about crossover point and power. I'm just very interested in your expertise in these things! I'm still staying with Seas but its
great to discover new details (for me)...for example: an 'underhung coil' is evidently a design plus. But I have no idea of how it works and why its advantageous? And I suppose Neodynum magnets
are smaller ,save weight and maybe give better acoustics somehow.

If you don't mind me asking too many questions.... this coaxial TB driver:
www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-937sf.htm looks amazing .. a built in crossover!

And this one looks even better: www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w5-938sc.htm
No crossover required! Could it be any good? I'm wondering why then TB did (could?) not also Zobel it?

And here's the one that was well reviewed, the W4-1337 full range:
www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w4-1337sa.htm
Maybe the 15k peak could easily be smoothed? Sorry, if I've asked too many questions! grant

Omni, I guess you're enjoying Frankie's 'break-in' of 100 CD's! keep in touch!
 
#680
Those coax could be interesting, but honestly I dont feel they are good enough
The W4 titanium ... the peak looks quite mild in behaviour ... if it really is, I dont know
Underhung means that voicecoil is shorter than the poleplate thickness, which means that all windings of the coil will always be inside the magnetgap
About sonics ... if you use good sound drivers its really a matter of the xo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom