for the cap on the mid: use this http://www.12vhifi.nl/closed.html calculator, gives good values usually
I also see now the individual mid curve is above the summed curve, indicating a phase ' problem' if you are lucky then adding the cap on the mid might solve this. btw: I would male the woofer's LP normal 2nd order, so get rid of the resistor in serie with the 100uF
I also see now the individual mid curve is above the summed curve, indicating a phase ' problem' if you are lucky then adding the cap on the mid might solve this. btw: I would male the woofer's LP normal 2nd order, so get rid of the resistor in serie with the 100uF
Now it's not an 2.5 anymore I made is 3 way with better impedance; .
Woofer is now 98,5 liters BR at 32Hz which can do 103dB at 40Hz at Xmax 5,5mm with 30W power
mid is now about 8,5 liters which is oke I think because it is now cut off at 200 Hz.
Off axis response is more flat than on axis. On axis mid has a little bump, but because of it's size it starts to beam earlier than a smaller mid does so in this case this is necessary for good off axis response.
The 50uF cap on tweeter gives a smoother curve to the mid.
Changing zobelnetworks doesn't seem to do any good. I adjusted it on the tweeter, it gave a flatter freq.curve , a bump around 5-10kHz dissapeared.
🙄
Woofer is now 98,5 liters BR at 32Hz which can do 103dB at 40Hz at Xmax 5,5mm with 30W power
mid is now about 8,5 liters which is oke I think because it is now cut off at 200 Hz.
Off axis response is more flat than on axis. On axis mid has a little bump, but because of it's size it starts to beam earlier than a smaller mid does so in this case this is necessary for good off axis response.
The 50uF cap on tweeter gives a smoother curve to the mid.
Changing zobelnetworks doesn't seem to do any good. I adjusted it on the tweeter, it gave a flatter freq.curve , a bump around 5-10kHz dissapeared.
🙄
Attachments
looks better...
still some questions:
- the RCL for the tweet: is in a location where it does nothing for the filter... what if you just get rid of it..
- the 2nd cap in the tweeter filter seems much too large... try a smaller value, this will also move the X-over upwards which could do the tweeter slope a lot of good (get rid of the hump around 2kHz)
still some questions:
- the RCL for the tweet: is in a location where it does nothing for the filter... what if you just get rid of it..
- the 2nd cap in the tweeter filter seems much too large... try a smaller value, this will also move the X-over upwards which could do the tweeter slope a lot of good (get rid of the hump around 2kHz)
Attachments
Midrange
I have high pass section before lowpass
Dont know if it make any difference
Anyway, 100uf is big, try a bit smaller...0.22mH is VERY small 😕
And with 2.2uf on tweeter...I have never seen a design making a 2khz xo point with such VERY small values 🙄
What happens if you have reversed phase on mid(only), instead of woofer
I have high pass section before lowpass
Dont know if it make any difference
Anyway, 100uf is big, try a bit smaller...0.22mH is VERY small 😕
And with 2.2uf on tweeter...I have never seen a design making a 2khz xo point with such VERY small values 🙄
What happens if you have reversed phase on mid(only), instead of woofer
RCL is for impedance; it brings a 18ohm peak around 7kHz back to 5 ohm.
the 50uF gives much better freq.response off axis, when i make it small 1-10uF I get a steep bump around 15-22 uF is oke but off axis I get this steep bump.
Uhmm I mount the tweeter behind the mdf front, does this have effect on the sound which is not seen in the BOXSIM simulation?
Look at the attachement,
red 30 degrees off axis
green 60 degrees off axis
blue 90 degrees off axis
the 50uF gives much better freq.response off axis, when i make it small 1-10uF I get a steep bump around 15-22 uF is oke but off axis I get this steep bump.
Uhmm I mount the tweeter behind the mdf front, does this have effect on the sound which is not seen in the BOXSIM simulation?
Look at the attachement,
red 30 degrees off axis
green 60 degrees off axis
blue 90 degrees off axis
Attachments
No, my dad doesn't have a tube amp,
so oke RCL is out now, it did not effect the frequencycurve.
So, is this the point of XO READY?
next thing will be to build the cabinet and I suppose adjusting the XO by ear means playing with resistors?
so oke RCL is out now, it did not effect the frequencycurve.
So, is this the point of XO READY?
next thing will be to build the cabinet and I suppose adjusting the XO by ear means playing with resistors?
architect said:
Seems a bit like 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards...which is quite normal with crossovers
The fact that you manage to get a XO point below 2khz, with a tweeter series cap of 2.2uf, and a mid series coil of 0.22mH, leads me to think there could be serious phase issues hidden
Hey, I just listened to a Neil Young live recording at Grand Old Opera in Nashville...yeah I have that on harddisc, video and all...aint that a treat 😎
Anyway, it didnt sound the way I was used to, bloddy awfull and pretty stessed actually...well, NeilYoung aint so smooth sounding thats fore sure, but not THAT bad either
So I reckoned it was back to work again
Increased the mid series coil from 0.36mH to 0.39mH, which was much better
But now the "notch arrangement" with cap/res across it didnt seem to work so well
So I tried "good old" RC
Now 8.2uf and 15ohm seemed to work very nicely, and a bit surpricing cause it didnt with the slightly smaller series inductor
Man, I do like when the ordinary looking things end up being the best option
And like MAGIC, Neil Young seemed to be back in good shape, honestly, relaxed and hart warming
Hell, whats that got to do with anything, you might say
Well, its only to tell that what seems to sound good may not suddenly be, when one takes the time to do some intensive long time listening...and knows how certain recording should sound
And Neil Young is nice to listen to, thats fore sure...if not, well...
Anyway, it didnt sound the way I was used to, bloddy awfull and pretty stessed actually...well, NeilYoung aint so smooth sounding thats fore sure, but not THAT bad either
So I reckoned it was back to work again
Increased the mid series coil from 0.36mH to 0.39mH, which was much better
But now the "notch arrangement" with cap/res across it didnt seem to work so well
So I tried "good old" RC
Now 8.2uf and 15ohm seemed to work very nicely, and a bit surpricing cause it didnt with the slightly smaller series inductor
Man, I do like when the ordinary looking things end up being the best option
And like MAGIC, Neil Young seemed to be back in good shape, honestly, relaxed and hart warming
Hell, whats that got to do with anything, you might say
Well, its only to tell that what seems to sound good may not suddenly be, when one takes the time to do some intensive long time listening...and knows how certain recording should sound
And Neil Young is nice to listen to, thats fore sure...if not, well...
Attachments
Allready back...well, who would have guessed that 😀
Did some further changes to RC on mid and woofer...beginning to look more normal, apart from rather big resistors
Man this new leadfree solder is really killing me
I can tell you, this simple almost "6db" filter sounds smooth smooth and smoother as ever, and completely free of any harsshness whatsoever...but still strugling with minor phase issues, but I suppose thats the way it will always be with 3ways
Maybe I just have become too sensitive to that...my friends dont notice anything, other that it sounds very good...I suppose Im just too critical
Enough of this...I think I have made my point 🙂
Did some further changes to RC on mid and woofer...beginning to look more normal, apart from rather big resistors
Man this new leadfree solder is really killing me
I can tell you, this simple almost "6db" filter sounds smooth smooth and smoother as ever, and completely free of any harsshness whatsoever...but still strugling with minor phase issues, but I suppose thats the way it will always be with 3ways
Maybe I just have become too sensitive to that...my friends dont notice anything, other that it sounds very good...I suppose Im just too critical
Enough of this...I think I have made my point 🙂
Attachments
MkII
My dad doesn't like the looks
I redesigned the cabinet
This thread will go on as...
MkII
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139580
My dad doesn't like the looks
I redesigned the cabinet
This thread will go on as...
MkII http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139580
Attachments
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