Actually I hold the driver off its rebate a couple thicknesses of paper -- more like a matchbook cover (used to use them to set Triumph motorcycle valves in a pinch, so around 16 thou) (of an inch)
mocked up the uFonken with 66mm port in cardboard.
Phenomenal!
instrumental solos, small ensembles, large orchestrals, male bass opera, female jazz, etc. all sounded very good. a female voice singing Ave Maria in folk style, almost whispering, is very delicate and intimate.
regardless of the bass is real or not, it is definitely there, showing through double bass, cello, trombone etc.. my mockup is still a little boomy though. for me it's hard to nail down the amount of lining/stuffing for the right balance between bass/liveliness and boominess/constrainedness.
listening from some distance is still better than near field, the highs/mid-highs are still too much up front. i tried the TABAQ box earlier, same thing, no bass either, so it feel like it's a driver characteristics. maybe another way of putting it is this driver doesn't have a flat frequency response?
the timbre is generally speaking sort of dry and thin. don't know whether it's a breaking-in issue, or the aluminum cone, or the driver characteristics, or what.
all in all, it's clear that uFonken pulls out more bass then others i've tried, a very nice little desk top speaker design, no doubt.
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A FAST. Take a woofer (the Morel or something similar) and mate it with a small FR (like the FE83 or better). Amazing results can be had.
dave
thank you mwhsmith!
i got the idea.
bikes? bikes are cakes as well?🙂
oh, forgot to ask, is some sort of seal necessary around the speaker opening, to prevent air from leaking out from around the driver?
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Try listening off-axis.
No deep bass because it is a 3" and naturally has a high resonance.
dave
got you Dave, thank you!
so in order to get some bass, or pseudo-bass, the highs/mid-highs are pushed too high, i suppose.
tried off-axis listening, it's better, i don't feel being attacked by the highs/mid-highs that much anymore.
Narmex, I def noticed a substantial improvement in smoothness of the top end & reductions in peakiness/resonance after a week of listening (sometimes left them playing internet radio overnight); the Enable putty treatment was also very helpful in controlling the driver. I think your naming of the timbre as 'dry' is the reduced upper bass-lower mid character of the FE83/uFonken combo. The 3.84 liter box is... voluptuous by comparison (and I like the way the uFonken sounds with the FE83)
thank you mwhsmith for all the info, plus the various photos you posted! i was wondering what the modelling clay is for.
i'll be patient, and give it some time to break-in, appreciate the tip!
i'll also try your, uh what do you call it, the 384BR? now i'll need to find more carton boxes first 🙂.
on the uFonken, i found that since it sits on my desk with some desktop surface in front of it, and the port is on the bottom, that did help the lows some, plus making the highs not as prominent, while it might also be contributing to the slight boominess of my mockup. while listening from some distance is better, some details do get missed comparing to near field use. so ideally, we do want our cake, and we do want to eat it as well, and then we want another piece, ad infinitum 🙂
i'll be patient, and give it some time to break-in, appreciate the tip!
i'll also try your, uh what do you call it, the 384BR? now i'll need to find more carton boxes first 🙂.
on the uFonken, i found that since it sits on my desk with some desktop surface in front of it, and the port is on the bottom, that did help the lows some, plus making the highs not as prominent, while it might also be contributing to the slight boominess of my mockup. while listening from some distance is better, some details do get missed comparing to near field use. so ideally, we do want our cake, and we do want to eat it as well, and then we want another piece, ad infinitum 🙂
Narmex- the clay is part of the Enable process and works hand in hand with a well-braced, felt-lined cabinet to kill resonances and reflections. The frame on these FE83's is light enough to make me wonder it it will resonate and/or soak up kinetic energy, and the clay not only kills reflections from the front face of the magnet but dampens the frame. All the dampening and bracing make a big difference in transparency because they cancel unwanted vibrations that come from places other than the surface of the cone, which sum to create peaks in response and, since they come from other places, temporal 'smear'. Which all add up to making me cringe when I hear about a cardboard speaker cabinet... imagine the vibrating surfaces of all sides of the box, not only smearing sound but absorbing energy as the driver itself is free to vibrate instead of sit solid and move air... a cardboard cabinet can help you work out volumes and tuning frequency of ports but won't give you a sense of sound quality possible. At least, that's the way it feels to me! But I'm just a tinkerer
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The clay is not part of EnABL (althou my EnABLed drivers use similar -- i use ductseal which is good for decades). It is something i have used for nearly 40 years. In between the magnet and the frame it shapes the rear of the driver for less reflections, and as an added bonus damps basket resonances.
dave
thank you guys for the info!
first a question, how do i determine the driver placement, for example, some inches down from the top? do i have to have certain software, would winISD do?
mwhsmith you are right, my mockups are made with cardboard, and they vibrate like crazy. they are only mockups, and i'm not done with mockups yet. the 346BR is playing now, it's relaxed, open, and natural, very attractive attributes. it is a hard choice between this and my uFonken mockup, the uFonken is a lot more clear, every thing is much better defined and therefore more real and alive, and the bass is tighter and firmer as well. of course it's not as effortless as the 346BR.
yes, cardboard, but they are both in cardboard, so equal comparision. i wonder whether the uFonken has some advantage because of its proportions, no one dimension is particular much longer then the others, that is. on the other hand, 346BR's relaxedness and effortlessness is very attractive. hard choice. same thing here again, it'd be a shame if we could only look at the cake. 🙂
first a question, how do i determine the driver placement, for example, some inches down from the top? do i have to have certain software, would winISD do?
mwhsmith you are right, my mockups are made with cardboard, and they vibrate like crazy. they are only mockups, and i'm not done with mockups yet. the 346BR is playing now, it's relaxed, open, and natural, very attractive attributes. it is a hard choice between this and my uFonken mockup, the uFonken is a lot more clear, every thing is much better defined and therefore more real and alive, and the bass is tighter and firmer as well. of course it's not as effortless as the 346BR.
yes, cardboard, but they are both in cardboard, so equal comparision. i wonder whether the uFonken has some advantage because of its proportions, no one dimension is particular much longer then the others, that is. on the other hand, 346BR's relaxedness and effortlessness is very attractive. hard choice. same thing here again, it'd be a shame if we could only look at the cake. 🙂
Hi Narmex
I think you will find over extended listening that the what is different between these two cabinets is not so much the relative presence or absence of detail but the balance of the Frequency Response: the uFonken's cabinet, being too small for the FE83, is emphasizing areas of the audio spectrum that present a lot of detail; the 348's present the same detail-rich part of the spectrum, but they aren't as isolated by imbalances in the FR, chiefly in the upper bass & lower midrange. So while the character isn't detail-centric in character, the detail is there to fill in the mind's understanding of wood or drum skins or space through decay or echo... which equals delight in my book
That's my take after spending a lot of time listening to the two cabinets. There are also differences in the way that they respond to different amps - the Yamaha chipped 2024 I mentioned earlier is really good with the uFonken, and the modified 7297 is simply sublime with the 348.
There is the issue of 'shout' at higher volumes with either cabinet. I don't think there's a cabinet that will remove that from a lightly damped, feather-weight aluminum cone. There is a light sprinkling of sibilance on some tracks... but they make pretty substantial volume before a saxophone will make you wince. I love them! Though I STRONGLY recommend the Duct Seal putty or non-hardening modeling clay around the frame in front of the magnet.
I think you will find over extended listening that the what is different between these two cabinets is not so much the relative presence or absence of detail but the balance of the Frequency Response: the uFonken's cabinet, being too small for the FE83, is emphasizing areas of the audio spectrum that present a lot of detail; the 348's present the same detail-rich part of the spectrum, but they aren't as isolated by imbalances in the FR, chiefly in the upper bass & lower midrange. So while the character isn't detail-centric in character, the detail is there to fill in the mind's understanding of wood or drum skins or space through decay or echo... which equals delight in my book
That's my take after spending a lot of time listening to the two cabinets. There are also differences in the way that they respond to different amps - the Yamaha chipped 2024 I mentioned earlier is really good with the uFonken, and the modified 7297 is simply sublime with the 348.
There is the issue of 'shout' at higher volumes with either cabinet. I don't think there's a cabinet that will remove that from a lightly damped, feather-weight aluminum cone. There is a light sprinkling of sibilance on some tracks... but they make pretty substantial volume before a saxophone will make you wince. I love them! Though I STRONGLY recommend the Duct Seal putty or non-hardening modeling clay around the frame in front of the magnet.
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Why not 2 drivers in one cabinet?
I bought 4 FE83s to build at least one pair of speakers for my office (paired with an open box LP-2020 snared cheap).
I found this thread and am inspired to try Mr. Smith's uFonkens for more reasons than because they can be thrown together out of scrap in a weekend.
But I am led to wonder how to go about putting two FE83s in one enclosure.
Does anyone have any words of wisdom on that subject?
Tnx,
--jm
---
It never ceases to amaze me how much I can learn from this forum.
I bought 4 FE83s to build at least one pair of speakers for my office (paired with an open box LP-2020 snared cheap).
I found this thread and am inspired to try Mr. Smith's uFonkens for more reasons than because they can be thrown together out of scrap in a weekend.
But I am led to wonder how to go about putting two FE83s in one enclosure.
Does anyone have any words of wisdom on that subject?
Tnx,
--jm
---
It never ceases to amaze me how much I can learn from this forum.
Easiest way to do it (conceptually) is take 2 cabinets flip one on top of the other, remove the tops so you have one volume and mount the drivers as close as possible.
dave
Not stereo with two drivers in one enclosure but two speakers (stereo) each with two drivers (in parallel -- I will experiment) for increased cone area (although I am fuzzy on the theory here).
Based on Dave's suggestion, I will sketch something up (even though I don't have Vectorworks installed yet 😉).
--jm
Based on Dave's suggestion, I will sketch something up (even though I don't have Vectorworks installed yet 😉).
--jm
Also: The invert and stack idea reminds me of the Double Advent setup that was popular back in the late 70's. One of my roommates had 2 pair of larger Advents and we had them stacked in our room, the top one upside down, putting the tweeters "close" together. I supplied the pair of Hafler DH-200s that drove them. The Absolute Sound reviewed that setup and called it "colorless", which I believe to have been a compliment. I still have my Smaller Advents as my garage system.
--jm
------
I remember when tubes were referred to as "FETs with pilot lights".
--jm
------
I remember when tubes were referred to as "FETs with pilot lights".
Lash up of the double:
Smaller Advent - try a single first, I think you'll be amazed... unless you're needing to power a house party, that little driver is quite capable. Best of luck, and know that the uFonken is A) too small for this driver and B) not my design! Thank the team at Planet10, chiefly Dave, who suggested this double alignment.
cheers
Smaller Advent - try a single first, I think you'll be amazed... unless you're needing to power a house party, that little driver is quite capable. Best of luck, and know that the uFonken is A) too small for this driver and B) not my design! Thank the team at Planet10, chiefly Dave, who suggested this double alignment.
cheers
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Wow, you're very fast with VW.
As it's been a couple of decades since I built myself any audio equipment (been busy with other stuff), I'll take your advice and try the single stack first. And just so I'm clear, it's your sketch of the FE83 BassReflex that I intend to build, not the uFonken (which is notably smaller). I have a spot for these in my office and it's not on my desk. And I do like the beveled edges in the front.
This just occurred to me: I have a bunch of 3/4" cabinet-grade birch ply, which would be considerably stiffer than 1/2" birch ply (which I might have too, I'd need to look). If I adjust the interior volume, do I need both interior brace/stiffeners? I understand the one that supports the magnet assembly may be necessary regardless, but I just thought I'd ask.
Thanks for the coaching.
--jm
As it's been a couple of decades since I built myself any audio equipment (been busy with other stuff), I'll take your advice and try the single stack first. And just so I'm clear, it's your sketch of the FE83 BassReflex that I intend to build, not the uFonken (which is notably smaller). I have a spot for these in my office and it's not on my desk. And I do like the beveled edges in the front.
This just occurred to me: I have a bunch of 3/4" cabinet-grade birch ply, which would be considerably stiffer than 1/2" birch ply (which I might have too, I'd need to look). If I adjust the interior volume, do I need both interior brace/stiffeners? I understand the one that supports the magnet assembly may be necessary regardless, but I just thought I'd ask.
Thanks for the coaching.
--jm
JM -
I don't know which graphic you're referring to as this little cabinet has been evolving since the beginning of this thread. Build the double stack, with the 4 1/8" port shelf, but cut the sides so that you can turn the middle divider into a full width top. By experimenting with room loading, you'll be amazed at the bass that comes out of this little driver & box. At moderate volumes you can listen to it all day long (I have trouble walking away from it when there's compelling material coming through it), and at higher volumes a little more distance keeps the inevitable 3" shout at bay (like 6'+). Air and detail are wonderful. Pianos, guitars, voices, etc. are delicious, and percussion of all sorts is sublime. Definitely a jazz - optimized setup, so long as its not overproduced & smeared with audio enhancements and mic eq indulgences.
Have a ball!
Matthew
I don't know which graphic you're referring to as this little cabinet has been evolving since the beginning of this thread. Build the double stack, with the 4 1/8" port shelf, but cut the sides so that you can turn the middle divider into a full width top. By experimenting with room loading, you'll be amazed at the bass that comes out of this little driver & box. At moderate volumes you can listen to it all day long (I have trouble walking away from it when there's compelling material coming through it), and at higher volumes a little more distance keeps the inevitable 3" shout at bay (like 6'+). Air and detail are wonderful. Pianos, guitars, voices, etc. are delicious, and percussion of all sorts is sublime. Definitely a jazz - optimized setup, so long as its not overproduced & smeared with audio enhancements and mic eq indulgences.
Have a ball!
Matthew
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