I don't generally jump in with cheap opinions, but since there are plenty here
already and the OP's taste is similar to mine:
Best 2 way with the Faital compression drivers I have heard is with TAD 1601
series in about 3-4 cu ft sealed enclosure. No other bass driver I've had could
cover that range so perfectly, including known "replacements" for the TADs.
A world famous expert on the subject said to me: "It's all in the cone material"
Too bad they are no longer available new.
already and the OP's taste is similar to mine:
Best 2 way with the Faital compression drivers I have heard is with TAD 1601
series in about 3-4 cu ft sealed enclosure. No other bass driver I've had could
cover that range so perfectly, including known "replacements" for the TADs.
A world famous expert on the subject said to me: "It's all in the cone material"
Too bad they are no longer available new.
A world famous expert on the subject said to me: "It's all in the cone material"
Too bad they are no longer available new.
Of course they are no longer available, we all know the cone was made out of unobtanium...
Oon
Does it have to be Faital, and why?Yes absolutely. I have read too many good reviews that I can't pass them up.
I am looking at the HF108 or HF108R CD and LTH102 horn to mate with the 10PR320.I have read good reviews on the 108 and one particular review stated that the HF108R was specifically designed for nearfield listening, which is what I am aiming for. Has anybody used this CD/horn combo?What do you think about the HF10AK?
So your goal is 40Hz from about 45 litres?No, if you go back to post 7, I said 61 litres or 54 litres.I only mentioned the Unison Research Max Mini because they use an 8 inch midbass and get a 93db 40-20000Hz result. So with my lack of experience, using a 96db 10 inch midbass in a bigger box, I should be able to get very close. BTW do you think this midbass will work fine with a 6 watt tube amp?
I am looking at the HF108 or HF108R CD and LTH102 horn to mate with the 10PR320.I have read good reviews on the 108 and one particular review stated that the HF108R was specifically designed for nearfield listening, which is what I am aiming for. Has anybody used this CD/horn combo?What do you think about the HF10AK?
So your goal is 40Hz from about 45 litres?No, if you go back to post 7, I said 61 litres or 54 litres.I only mentioned the Unison Research Max Mini because they use an 8 inch midbass and get a 93db 40-20000Hz result. So with my lack of experience, using a 96db 10 inch midbass in a bigger box, I should be able to get very close. BTW do you think this midbass will work fine with a 6 watt tube amp?
Not so long ago I contacted Faital Pro and they confirmed that the HF108R is indeed developed for shorter listening distances, like home, studio etc.
For Unison Max Mini, the 40Hz is a bit optimistic imo, but maybe it's possible in-room with a near-wall placement.
I usually aim in box simulation for the best F10 (-10dB) response, because I don't like speaker placed far from the walls into the room.
I have a factory speaker with 75Hz Fs woofers that play down to the upper 40Hz region in-room because the box, tuning and the room (placement) allows that.
For Unison Max Mini, the 40Hz is a bit optimistic imo, but maybe it's possible in-room with a near-wall placement.
I usually aim in box simulation for the best F10 (-10dB) response, because I don't like speaker placed far from the walls into the room.
I have a factory speaker with 75Hz Fs woofers that play down to the upper 40Hz region in-room because the box, tuning and the room (placement) allows that.
Please go back and read my whole post. Specifically, stick the numbers for any Faital 8" driver into the two on-line calculators I linked.
You will not be able to get the result they claim. That's marketing versus reality.
Fiddling with these calculators is a good learning experience. You only have to do it a few times to be able to recognise when a marketing claim is a bit overblown.
Yes.
If you eq it flat, to the same -3dB point as your Pencil, it will be approximately a loud, if you make it the same size.
A box that is 20% bigger might be 0.5 dB louder.
They might subjectively seem quieter, however, because you might be used to hearing the relatively lively (ragged) response of the 10p.
MarkAudio Alpair-10P | HiFiCompass
Mark Audio Alpair 10P-A Fullrange Loudspeaker Measurements Data and Information Full Range
6 watts is plenty for many applications. Particularly near field.
I use a Faital 12" in a mono horn system on my bush block. This is powered by a 12v battery, so amp power is low.
I think it is a great woofer, and when I measured it, the FR plot was an excellent match to the spec sheet, so I trust their data, and would happily buy more of their gear.
Since one of my requirements is a small foot print, my first choice of speaker size is an 8 inch in a 40l maybe 50l box. Dave123 and GrahamGraham can you give us your thoughts on your speakers? Dimensions? Hence volume? How is the bass? What type of music do you listen to? Do you think the Fs 58Hz of the 8PR200 to be sufficient for rock, classic rock, prog?
Glad you guys jumped in.
Hollowboy: For some reason I can't get access to the calculator.
BTW, what is meant by " tuned to xx Hz".Is this done by playing with port dimensions?
Thanks
Yes, the port tuning comes from the port dimensions and how that port relates to the netto box volume.
For example, the same port have lower tuning on a larger box and higher tuning in a smaller box and if you want a lower tuning in a smaller box, you need a longer port with the same cross-section area or same length with smaller cross-section, all option have it's trade-off.
For example, the same port have lower tuning on a larger box and higher tuning in a smaller box and if you want a lower tuning in a smaller box, you need a longer port with the same cross-section area or same length with smaller cross-section, all option have it's trade-off.
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Two things come to mind to add:
- If this is your first build other than from plans you'll need a mic (Umik-1 is good) and impedence measuring system (if passive). There will be a healthy learning curve but there is support here of course.
- A tower presents a few more problems than a bookshelf and I would strongly advise learning WinISD (at minimum) and Hornresp (at optimum). You'll need simulate it as an MLTL in Hornresp but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
In response to thoughts on the 8PR200, I think it's very nice. It's the first pro sound driver I have used of this size but I have absolutely nothing to gripe about other than the bezel shape. It's a bit of work to flush-mount and whilst not strictly necessary it's something I would want to do.
My alignment is a bit more compact than you could use on this driver. Initially I made it as a mid bass cab to crossover at 100hz ish. However, when I moved house and my listening position was up against the opposite wall I found I had enough LF extension to turn the subs off. If I were to do it again (which I most likely will when my shed is built) I would make it an EBS alignment (17L/55hz) and let the room do the back work to lift the bass area or EQ it flat depending on outcome.
However, we do not know your listening environment so it makes it a wee bit difficult to give any direct design suggestions. As scootmoose has said a few times, speakers should be designed holistically. This means as part of a larger system which is the room.
- If this is your first build other than from plans you'll need a mic (Umik-1 is good) and impedence measuring system (if passive). There will be a healthy learning curve but there is support here of course.
- A tower presents a few more problems than a bookshelf and I would strongly advise learning WinISD (at minimum) and Hornresp (at optimum). You'll need simulate it as an MLTL in Hornresp but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
In response to thoughts on the 8PR200, I think it's very nice. It's the first pro sound driver I have used of this size but I have absolutely nothing to gripe about other than the bezel shape. It's a bit of work to flush-mount and whilst not strictly necessary it's something I would want to do.
My alignment is a bit more compact than you could use on this driver. Initially I made it as a mid bass cab to crossover at 100hz ish. However, when I moved house and my listening position was up against the opposite wall I found I had enough LF extension to turn the subs off. If I were to do it again (which I most likely will when my shed is built) I would make it an EBS alignment (17L/55hz) and let the room do the back work to lift the bass area or EQ it flat depending on outcome.
However, we do not know your listening environment so it makes it a wee bit difficult to give any direct design suggestions. As scootmoose has said a few times, speakers should be designed holistically. This means as part of a larger system which is the room.
Graham Graham could you please direct me to the WinISD download? I did download a version but not sure if it's the latest and most complete version.
BTW My listening area is 3 meters wide with an open back to a larger room.My speakers are 110cm from the front wall and 30cm from the side walls.
I find that this is the best place for imaging.So I'm thinking, if I build with the 8 inch midbass, I might have to move them closer to the front wall to get decent bass and that might have an effect on imaging.There's never a simple solution.
As for the Umik-1, I don't know how to read graphs and might be getting in a bite over my head.
Thanks
BTW My listening area is 3 meters wide with an open back to a larger room.My speakers are 110cm from the front wall and 30cm from the side walls.
I find that this is the best place for imaging.So I'm thinking, if I build with the 8 inch midbass, I might have to move them closer to the front wall to get decent bass and that might have an effect on imaging.There's never a simple solution.
As for the Umik-1, I don't know how to read graphs and might be getting in a bite over my head.
Thanks
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Might be worth having a look here then. They have a section for higher sensitivity kits as linked:
Strassacker: Speaker - kits - do it yourself
Strassacker: Speaker - kits - do it yourself
If you’re using a conventional dome tweeter now, you’ll get speakers with completely different behaviors with those Faital horns in terms of imaging and room interaction.
Try starting here, and then clicking through to what you want.
Calculators
...or just search for any speaker calculator. There are several that work online, others that you download (e.g. to run in Excel), and others that are an .exe like Hornresp.
It depends on the tower.
A tower 2.5 way could use a divided cabinet (that is: it would acoustically be two stacked 50 litre boxes rather than a single 100 litre pipe).
That wouldn't have to simulated as a MLTL.
Yup, and set the diameter of the port to at least 1/3 the diameter of driver. As a general rule the port tuning frequency should not be lower than the Fs. Below Fs, the speaker response drops like a rock so it has nothing to boost.
You can consider this design if you are going to shoot in the dark. It's a mass loaded transmission line. Intended for speaker of 48Hz Fs. Your Fs is higher but at least it won't be for a 30Hz which is typical frequency for the hifi type driver.
Speaker Design Works
Oon